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Question about Open Carry in the USPS ?
- Thread starter dashraider
- Start date
Cmdr_Haggis
Regular Member
Found the definition:
TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 44 > § 930
IANAL, so I'm not sure what "a part thereof" means.
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ProShooter
Regular Member
A part of the buidling where the federal employee is working.
The Hotel & Conference Center at Natural Bridge has a big building with a gift shop, butterfly exhibit, etc but in part of the basement is a U.S. Post Office.
JamesB
Regular Member
Yep. That's why I swallow a handcuff key every two days.
DrMark
Lone Star Veteran
Indeed. It means a building or part thereof.
Federal facilities (that is, buildings) are covered by USCs930, and 39CFR232.1 addresses Post Offices specifically. Neither addresses Federal property in general, though the notion though the notion continues to be put forth on this forum and others.
If there were a general ban on firearm possession on Federal property, we wouldn't be carrying in National Parks, I wouldn't have shot many matches on military installations, and so on.
Cmdr_Haggis
Regular Member
"Watch me as I slip outta these irons, lawdawg!" <grunt, strain...>
JamesB
Regular Member
Without copying again the definition above, I belive he is refering here to "facility" means "building". It does not mean "parking lot" or "surrounding property, whether fenced or not."
Regardless, I think I'll wait untill after the latest case goes through the courts before I decide to make a stink and place my own freedom in question.
JamesB
Regular Member
There it is! Bonidy v. USPS.
From what I understand, the case is actually taken a small step instead of going for the whole enchalada. Currently it is just to consider carrying in or on the postal grounds (parking lot). Read more about it here:
http://onlygunsandmoney.blogspot.com/2010/12/bonidy-v-usps-postal-service-moves-to.html
Lawyer for this case is Jim Manly, who is also involved with the Students for Concealed Carry on Campus v. Colorado State University.
Eagerly awaiting verdicts in both of those.
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DrMark
Lone Star Veteran
Right, 18USC930 is applicable to Gov't buildings. However, based on 39CFR232.1 and case law, I wouldn't carry on PO property.
And I agree... hopefully court cases will change things...
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what I know is trumped by the law's definition. defined here
From another thread I believe everyone came to the conclusion that "part thereof" covered actual land, thus why having a gun in your car on a military installation is prohibited.
IF this is not the case, does anyone know what you are to be charged with when caught with a gun on a military base? any SPs out there?
EDIT: Any SP's that actually know the law?
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DrMark
Lone Star Veteran
I can't accept that "part thereof" covers Federal land in general. For example, prohibition against, and recently, allowance of, carry in National Parks was handled independent of 18s930.
Also, firearm possession on military installations is not prohibited. I've done it legally many, many times. It's simply controlled by the base commander and controlled by the base's regulations.
If found with a gun on a military installation, and that gun is possessed outside of the installation's regulations, you could be charged with violating those regulations.
I too have wondered exactly how one might be charged in such an instance.
ocholsteroc
Regular Member
The only base I know you can bring a gun on is Camp Allen for the shooting range,
what are you talking about?
Originally Posted by DrMark
Also, firearm possession on military installations is not prohibited. I've done it legally many, many times. It's simply controlled by the base commander and controlled by the base's regulations.
Originally Posted by DrMark
firearm possession on military installations is not prohibited.
Military installations is OT for this thread and perhaps deserving of its own, but to wrap this up, Dr. Mark is right.
Carrying on military installations is NOT illegal per say - no law against it - the base commander (or higher up) sets the rules. I have carried at FT. Lee (range) and think of Camp Perry. Then there is the drive through situation at Quantico.
DrMark
Lone Star Veteran
Consistent with Grapeshot wrapping the tangential topic up, I'll send you a PM.
nuc65
Activist Member
One might argue that the quoted references that end with"
...other lawful purposes.
Might allow one to carry on federal property... The gun control act of 1968 defines a lawful purpose as being "carry for personal protection."
nuc65
Activist Member
I also tend to think of the USPS office as being a public gathering place where meetings and gatherings might occur (post office boxes) not a sensitive place.
MackTheKnife
Regular Member
Federal/postal carry
The Code of Federal Regulations is the over arching guidance for the post office. As for Federal buildings, 18USC44 was quoted. 18USC950 also applies. In that law it states that it must be posted that firearms are not allow to ban carry.
The Code of Federal Regulations is the over arching guidance for the post office. As for Federal buildings, 18USC44 was quoted. 18USC950 also applies. In that law it states that it must be posted that firearms are not allow to ban carry.
What? Translate please!
thebigsd
Founder's Club Member
My firearms like it when I carry them, my 1911 would never ban me from carrying it.
I believe you were trying to say that post offices must have the firearm prohibition posted by law.
Badger Johnson
Regular Member
I sometimes fantasize about standing across the street from a banned, or GFZ while the employees are being held up, showing my HG, and wagging my finger, illustrating they'll just have to fend for themselves if someone 'goes postal'.
OK, slow day here, hehe.
OK, slow day here, hehe.