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Thread: Spotsylvania Man Robbed by (Cowardly) Gunmen Outside of Home

  1. #1
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Spotsylvania Man Robbed by (Cowardly) Gunmen Outside of Home

    Three men armed with at least two handguns robbed a man as he returned home from work in Spotsylvania County.

    (Police urge citizens to report any three armed men) (LOL)

    http://fredericksburg.patch.com/arti...utside-of-home

    Question is, why is the law so stacked in favor of the BG? To wit, if the wife had been armed and as these guys turned, shot, she'd have had to prove SD. Any of them could have turned and snap shot at the couple so they're still a threat.

    If you shoot into the ground, I mean "miss", to assure they keep running (and run away faster), you can be charged for discharging a weapon in a subdivision (or something like that). You have to rely that a prosecutor won't press charges and your HG is likely to be confiscated.

    Meanwhile the crooks and BGs are free to 'try' to rob more people (unless confronted by a grandma with a fierce expression).

    I note it takes three armed men to handle two unarmed citizens...well, no, I guess it takes four.
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

    Hi, I'm hypercritical. But I mean no harm, I just like to try to look deeply at life

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    It would seem it is better to survive and testify than be a dead hero - the victim's reaction was IMO a good one.

    Virginia is a state where our actions may be excusable or justified with regards to lethal reactions.
    I have no problem with that - not exactly sure why you seem to have a different opinion.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    It would seem it is better to survive and testify than be a dead hero - the victim's reaction was IMO a good one.
    Well, yeah. I was just having a little pot shot here. The Vic wasn't armed, what else could he do? Looking back I guess he could have just walked away after throwing down some cash, refusing their demands. To me it was dumb luck. I'd never give up my keys and walk them to my front door. You just throw the keys into the woods/river/tall grass/over some cars. Because he didn't, and his wife's sudden appearance at the door scared them away (WTH?) he got lucky.

    Virginia is a state where our actions may be excusable or justified with regards to lethal reactions.
    I have no problem with that - not exactly sure why you seem to have a different opinion.
    Opinion? I just said 'you can be charged' with A and B, but true most are excused - they're still not legal (my point). Why make a law that you excuse every time?

    We use such stories to ponder 'level of force' and 'legality' here. I don't know that this makes me "having a different opinion".

    May I ask then 'how do you know' what Virginia prosecutors might do in Spotsy? You know, just for point of information.
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

    Hi, I'm hypercritical. But I mean no harm, I just like to try to look deeply at life

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    Well, yeah. I was just having a little pot shot here. The Vic wasn't armed, what else could he do? Looking back I guess he could have just walked away after throwing down some cash, refusing their demands. To me it was dumb luck. I'd never give up my keys and walk them to my front door. You just throw the keys into the woods/river/tall grass/over some cars. Because he didn't, and his wife's sudden appearance at the door scared them away (WTH?) he got lucky.



    Opinion? I just said 'you can be charged' with A and B, but true most are excused - they're still not legal (my point). Why make a law that you excuse every time?

    We use such stories to ponder 'level of force' and 'legality' here. I don't know that this makes me "having a different opinion".

    May I ask then 'how do you know' what Virginia prosecutors might do in Spotsy? You know, just for point of information.
    What is "still not legal" therefore illegal? Your stated point, not mine. How would you rewrite the law(s)? - suggest you contact your delegate or senator if you have ideas with merit.

    Do not see any anyone pondering "level of force" and/or "legality" here - quite to the contrary.

    Did I say that I knew what prosecutors in Spotsylvania might do? Where? If you require such information as to what one might anticipate from a particular prosecutor, his/her conduct in office is a matter of public record - you could research it.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    The victim's wife, startled by the commotion outside, opened the front door as the robbers were approaching.
    So if they hadn't been startled, could just as easily turned into a nasty home invasion.

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    From my reading of the report the wife could have opened fired (if armed) on her husbands attackers.
    There appears to be more than enough elimates that one could articulate that would justify the use of deadly force by the victim or his wife.

    YOMV......
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent19 View Post
    From my reading of the report the wife could have opened fired (if armed) on her husbands attackers.
    There appears to be more than enough elimates that one could articulate that would justify the use of deadly force by the victim or his wife.

    YOMV......
    I agree. And if the man had been armed and able to get to his firearm, he could have opened fire immediately on the perps before they demanded anything from him because the article states that the perps approached with guns in hand, not to mention there were three of them.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    What is "still not legal" therefore illegal? Your stated point, not mine. How would you rewrite the law(s)? - suggest you contact your delegate or senator if you have ideas with merit.
    It's not the LAW it's the intent, philosophy and morality behind those making, enforcing and adjudicating these 'laws' that are in need of change and there's nothing drafting a new law will do to change the 'public intent'. There's nothing your or I can -do- except stay out of the system. It's a totally chaotic regime and has nothing to do with what went before, what laws there are. Currently our legal system favors the bad guys. The bad lawyers, the bad LEOs, the bad criminals.

    Do I have a proposal? Less laws which harm the innocent civilian. Rulings which pay remuneration to those victimized. Rulings which personally penalize those in power who abuse that power. Citizens cannot change that. All they can do is grouse and vent on forums (which I do, lol).

    By making a LAW you give power and empowerment to any yahoo who is in 'the system' from a clerk who might lose your paperwork to a LEO who might want to be judge, jury and executioner, to a Judge who wants to make the law (rather than interpret it).

    Point is, in Virginia, a fully supported and functional Castle Doctrine is needed. Nobody knows how to do that and have it supported. Virginia need constitutional carry. Virginia needs people to do their freaking jobs properly and professionally. Who knows if that will happen.

    In this instance, you have a security guard occupying your time, distracting you, embarrassing you. I say, don't waste your time talking to such people. While you're 'being questioned' a guy could be out in the parking lot breaking into your car and you might have prevented it if you weren't jack-jawing with some dimwit guard. HTH.
    Last edited by Badger Johnson; 09-26-2011 at 04:24 AM.
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

    Hi, I'm hypercritical. But I mean no harm, I just like to try to look deeply at life

  9. #9
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    Is this a discussion board or a legal forum?

    You are TOTALLY missing the point, as usual. It's not the LAW it's the intent, philosophy and morality behind those making, enforcing and adjudicating these 'laws' that are in need of change and there's nothing drafting a new law will do to change the 'public intent'. There's nothing your or I can -do- except stay out of the system. It's a totally chaotic regime and has nothing to do with what went before, what laws there are. Currently our legal system favors the bad guys. The bad lawyers, the bad LEOs, the bad criminals.

    Do I have a proposal? Less laws which harm the innocent civilian. Rulings which pay remuneration to those victimized. Rulings which personally penalize those in power who abuse that power. Citizens cannot change that. All they can do is grouse and vent on forums (which I do, lol).

    By making a LAW you give power and empowerment to any yahoo who is in 'the system' from a clerk who might lose your paperwork to a LEO who might want to be judge, jury and executioner, to a Judge who wants to make the law (rather than interpret it).

    Point is, in Virginia, a fully supported and functional Castle Doctrine is needed. Nobody knows how to do that and have it supported. Virginia need constitutional carry. Virginia needs people to do their freaking jobs properly and professionally. Who knows if that will happen.

    In this instance, you have a security guard occupying your time, distracting you, embarrassing you. I say, don't waste your time talking to such people. While you're 'being questioned' a guy could be out in the parking lot breaking into your car and you might have prevented it if you weren't jack-jawing with some dimwit guard. HTH.
    No sir, I am not missing the point - I am making it. There is much that we can do as in being good ambassadors with positive attitudes, working with our legislators and taking the steps and time to help educate others. I see little benefit to grousing and complaining.

    Above all else is the law. Laws punish specific actions not direct intentions. Filing suit is always an option, but not one needed in most cases.

    Case law has already established an effective Castle Doctrine basis in Va - this being the opinion of many including our own User, Dan Hawes.

    Are we to be so fearful to have a short conversation with a security guard (that's so embarrassing)? Are we to not OC for fear of being proned and stomped (where has this happened in Va.)? I say not. Many good people do NOT consider it an imposition to educate others in a positive manner - at least as their initial effort.

    What we need less of are bad attitudes, name calling/personal attacks and overtly negative postings in our midst.

    What we need more of are effective/active people to project a positive image and carry a positive message to the public, media and our legislators.

    Get involved in the process personally by joining and supporting VCDL, attending the meetings and be at the GA Building come Lobby Day. Don't just leave it to Mikie to improve things.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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