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Thread: OC on property outside

  1. #1
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    OC on property outside

    Is it legal to OC in Texas outside of my home but on my property (HOA neighborhood)?

  2. #2
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Yes, but be ready to fight.

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    Nothing in the penal againt it. See>>>>>
    Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control.
    What this means is your not restricted and can NOT be charged with UCW while on your property, OR property under your control.

    Now here's what some idiot might attempt to charge you with for displaying a handgun or rifle while on your property, Your property is not public property.....
    CHAPTER 42. DISORDERLY CONDUCT AND RELATED OFFENSES
    (8) displays a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm;

    Read throught chapter 9 and chapter 35 of the penal code to get a good idea on Removing trespassers, and self defense laws.

    Carry on your property as you see fit. Just dont be obnoxious about it.

    Oh yea, I think what JackHouse is refering to is your "HOA"....
    So, Texas firearms laws are Preemption of Law. That means NOBODY CAN CHANGE THEM... THOSE LAWS ARE THE SAME EVERYWHERE... HOA ordinancing against Texas Firearms laws, " Yea Right"...
    But yea, like JH said, YOU will have to fight them on it.
    Does your HOA have anything written against firearms, if so post that crap up here for us to see.

    BTW, Join the http://www.lonestarcdl.org/
    Last edited by MR Redenck; 09-23-2011 at 10:50 PM.

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    I was referring to the HOA indeed, but also any uninformed officer that might attempt an arrest. I routinely come across officers, even police chiefs, that are horribly misinformed on carry and related laws. It's sad, but true. Fortunately I've not had to deal with any of them on a more legal basis, more just personal discussing various laws.

    I've tried correcting some, but they are so ingrained in the belief that they are right and I am wrong because they are officers and I am not. So clearly I have no idea what I'm talking about. Obviously I have no business trying to give anyone legal advice, but then neither do they. One of the worst pieces of advice I've heard was from a chief of police saying that if you kill someone outside your home in a case of legitimate self defense, you'd have to drag their body inside or else it's considered murder. The advice was in response to someone telling them about an incident whereby someone was attempting to steal their car.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    I was referring to the HOA indeed, but also any uninformed officer that might attempt an arrest. I routinely come across officers, even police chiefs, that are horribly misinformed on carry and related laws. It's sad, but true. Fortunately I've not had to deal with any of them on a more legal basis, more just personal discussing various laws.

    I've tried correcting some, but they are so ingrained in the belief that they are right and I am wrong because they are officers and I am not. So clearly I have no idea what I'm talking about. Obviously I have no business trying to give anyone legal advice, but then neither do they. One of the worst pieces of advice I've heard was from a chief of police saying that if you kill someone outside your home in a case of legitimate self defense, you'd have to drag their body inside or else it's considered murder. The advice was in response to someone telling them about an incident whereby someone was attempting to steal their car.
    Oh lordy man, I hear all that some stuff all the time.
    About a couple of week ago I called the cops on some drunkin bums who were giving people crap at a stop sign. " Threatening and being disorderly"
    The police response and how they handled the situation was actually impressive. After I finished making the report for the cops, one of them cmae over to review it. It was dark, I was doing the report on the tool box of my truck with the dome and cargo light on. The officer said , "Sir Im not going to do anything this time, but for now on your shotgun needs to be under the truck seat". Why I asked? He said Texas has concealment laws. I explained not for a shotgun or Rifle they dont and concealment only applies to that 45 in my console. Then he said we have a city ordinance. So I explained that ordinance would be in violation of Texas Preemption of firearms laws so I could not care less about it.
    Makes me sick to listen to the crap.....
    I have heard people say the same thing about dragging dead bodies inside their door. " Stupid, Stupid , Stupid".... I tell them to never touch someone they used force upon. Wait for the police. Then I explain how important it is for them to read chapter 9 of the penal code.
    Just yesterday I had someone asking me about guns in bars. "How can you carry one"??? I explained there are a few way to carry firearms in a bar, but im not telling you how. There is much more to learn prior to doing that. If people dont want to take the time to cover all of the important details, then exercising one little portion of your rights will end in failure.
    Knowledge is the first and most important "Defense to Prosecution".

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    I live in the Country-no HOA here so no problem. When I feel the need I open carry, since my pistol has IVORY GRIPS I know that they can see it, and therefore NO problems from my neighbors. Amatter of fact my neighbors also "OPEN CARRY" when they are at home especially after one of them had their house broken into, now they "WATCH MY HOUSE and I WATCH THEIRS" works out great so far!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowboy_Rick View Post
    I live in the Country-no HOA here so no problem. When I feel the need I open carry, since my pistol has IVORY GRIPS I know that they can see it, and therefore NO problems from my neighbors. Amatter of fact my neighbors also "OPEN CARRY" when they are at home especially after one of them had their house broken into, now they "WATCH MY HOUSE and I WATCH THEIRS" works out great so far!
    Make sure you and your neighbor exchange written information about being in control of each others property while one of you is away.
    Also make sure you and your neighbors are current with property defense laws.
    Actually being in control of their property does not mean you or they have to go into the residence.
    This is a very good crime prevention technique and I Promise, IT WORKS... HeHe

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Wait, it's possible to legally carry in bars, or do you just mean bars that are not 51%ers?

    I OC'd at my friend's house yesterday. I was acting as an agent for my friend whom lives in the country, he was one of the ones that lost his place. So I took the opportunity to enjoy a right I solemnly enjoy. Will be OC'ing this Saturday when I go to another friend's house. However, he lives on an orchard and we'll be shooting. So it's not really the same. Still, I'll be doing it anyway.

    Posted using my HTC Evo

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    The HOA cannot infringe your right to open carry on your own property.

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    A condo is private property the control of which is held in common by all owners.

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    Thank you for the responses. My HOA does not have anything regarding gun laws but you never know when they will drive by doing "inspections". I've met some of the members and some are good folks while others love to make trouble. the ones that drive around looking for violtions happen to be the troublemakers so we shall see. I OC alot on my property currently but generally when I am in the back yard...not so much in the front.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    Wait, it's possible to legally carry in bars, or do you just mean bars that are not 51%ers?

    I OC'd at my friend's house yesterday. I was acting as an agent for my friend whom lives in the country, he was one of the ones that lost his place. So I took the opportunity to enjoy a right I solemnly enjoy. Will be OC'ing this Saturday when I go to another friend's house. However, he lives on an orchard and we'll be shooting. So it's not really the same. Still, I'll be doing it anyway.

    Posted using my HTC Evo
    How does one act as an agent for another,
    and where does it say how to in the Penal Code, or is that in a contract by two parties that gives one permission to act as an agent?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MR Redenck View Post
    Make sure you and your neighbor exchange written information about being in control of each others property while one of you is away.
    Also make sure you and your neighbors are current with property defense laws.
    Actually being in control of their property does not mean you or they have to go into the residence.
    This is a very good crime prevention technique and I Promise, IT WORKS... HeHe
    This year, we both are going to "re-up" our Concealed Carry License. When we do we will receive the current information in the way of LAWS that are on the "BOOKS", and of course any change in the "CASTLE DOCTRINE" that applies to TEXAS. Instead of taking "ACTION" on the spot-we both call the LEO's of developing situations via CELL PHONE-when and if at all possible, since we both live in the "COUNTY" we have an on-going verbal exchange with the County Sheriff's Office and the Officers that may well be envolved. I know that this is not perfect but for now it seems to be the best way of keeping CRIME in check. Especially, since there are so many families living near my home and his, that are ILLEGAL (MEXICO) and they favor having much more rights than American citizens due to this ADMINISTRATION. Yes, we have exchanged written "PERMISSION" that was drawn up by our ATTORNIES. This, of course, will be looked at due to the "CHANGING LAWS". We are "HOA" free!!!
    Last edited by Cowboy_Rick; 02-05-2012 at 08:42 AM. Reason: additional information

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    What is an " HOA " ? And why would it affect open carry on my own property? And is OC on my own property legal or not?
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

    Michigan Concealed Pistol Instructor. Cost 80.00 With advanced techniques included free. PM for more information!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowboy_Rick View Post
    This year, we both are going to "re-up" our Concealed Carry License. When we do we will receive the current information in the way of LAWS that are on the "BOOKS", and of course any change in the "CASTLE DOCTRINE" that applies to TEXAS.
    Not sure how you go about renewing your permit in Texas, but be careful, as concealed carry instructors and law enforcement are known to be some of the most egregious spreaders of misinformation. It's best to read the statutes yourself and consult a lawyer if any are unclear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    Not sure how you go about renewing your permit in Texas, but be careful, as concealed carry instructors and law enforcement are known to be some of the most egregious spreaders of misinformation. It's best to read the statutes yourself and consult a lawyer if any are unclear.
    Renewal in TX is somewhat straight forward. It's a half-day refresher course, qualification & the requisite notarized forms.

    As for what you said about reading the statutes, that is absolutely spot on. The instructors mean well, but it is true that you will sometimes receive misinformation. This is sometimes because they misunderstand or were taught incorrectly and sometimes (the most dangerous sort) is a "play it safe" attitude where you're taught the laws are far tougher than they actually are. By all means, get familiar with the first few sections of TPC 46.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    What is an " HOA " ? And why would it affect open carry on my own property? And is OC on my own property legal or not?
    Home Owners Assn.

    Some people buy in a housing tract that includes a contract about what you are allowed to do with the property: things like what colors you can paint the house, what you can have visible in the yard, even where and what you can park there. Many of them have a bad reputation for over-enforcement and hassling. People at every level in life are subject to their power trips.

    We had a big issue with HOAs here. But things only got to that point because we were in a housing shortage for a while, and people were desperate to buy homes and sign some of these absolutely ridiculous contracts. Don't get me wrong, though, some are quite fair, and some WANT to live in an HOA community because it helps greatly to keep the property values up for the whole neighborhood. But when I purchased my home, having it in a non-HOA community was a mandatory requirement for me.

    HOAs cannot violate civil rights.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    Not sure how you go about renewing your permit in Texas, but be careful, as concealed carry instructors and law enforcement are known to be some of the most egregious spreaders of misinformation. It's best to read the statutes yourself and consult a lawyer if any are unclear.
    Most definitely, I receive the "UPDATED" publications from the Austin Branch and from my representative and from a Lawyer friend that I have known for years, plus you can "ORDER" the publications also. Always remember that the most up-dated material is the best by far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    Yes, but be ready to fight.
    Why would I need to be ready to fight? I assume you mean Law Enforcement but if they know that OC of a pistol is 100% legal on my own property is legal then why would they even bother? I plan on doing this since my current way of defensive carry is open carry I plan on doing this when I am able. Most of my work will be cross border work Mexico and in New Mexico. Any clarification you can supply me with will be greatly appreciated!
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

    Michigan Concealed Pistol Instructor. Cost 80.00 With advanced techniques included free. PM for more information!

  20. #20
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Home Owners Assn.

    Some people buy in a housing tract that includes a contract about what you are allowed to do with the property: things like what colors you can paint the house, what you can have visible in the yard, even where and what you can park there. Many of them have a bad reputation for over-enforcement and hassling. People at every level in life are subject to their power trips.

    We had a big issue with HOAs here. But things only got to that point because we were in a housing shortage for a while, and people were desperate to buy homes and sign some of these absolutely ridiculous contracts. Don't get me wrong, though, some are quite fair, and some WANT to live in an HOA community because it helps greatly to keep the property values up for the whole neighborhood. But when I purchased my home, having it in a non-HOA community was a mandatory requirement for me.

    HOAs cannot violate civil rights.
    Thank you for the clarification thats what I thought it meant but I try not to assume when at all possible! Trying to get all my ducks in a row before I hit the ground in my new home!
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

    Michigan Concealed Pistol Instructor. Cost 80.00 With advanced techniques included free. PM for more information!

  21. #21
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    Why would I need to be ready to fight? I assume you mean Law Enforcement but if they know that OC of a pistol is 100% legal on my own property is legal then why would they even bother? I plan on doing this since my current way of defensive carry is open carry I plan on doing this when I am able. Most of my work will be cross border work Mexico and in New Mexico. Any clarification you can supply me with will be greatly appreciated!
    You can beat the rap but you wont beat the ride. Even if it is perfectly legal, they can still arrest you. Cops don't really know much about the law, this is especially true for exceptions to the law.

    Do not expect a police officer to know about the exception for property under your control, or the exception for travel. And even if they do, they can and may even still arrest you. Afterall, it's illegal to carry a handgun in Texas. Texas law simply lists some defenses to prosecution. This means you shouldn't get arrested, doesn't mean you wont.

  22. #22
    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    ^^ This

    As I posted in another thread:
    What is legal is what council can convince a judge and/or jury is legal.

    What is arrestable is everything. Everything. And if you think there's meaningful sanction against an officer who arrests falsely, the Scientologists are looking for more adherents.

    What should be discussed, when someone wants to know if it's okay to do something, is less what standing law declares legal or illegal, and more what is or isn't prone to get you arrested, no matter the legality. Court-adjudicated legality is a concern for those who can afford legal bills. Arrest likelihood is what most of us are interested in.

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