• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Stopped for OC in Spokane

hermannr

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
2,327
Location
Okanogan Highland
May I add a couple of words to your complaint.

"A pistol in it's holster has never harmed anyone, it is only dangerous when removed from it's retention. Whay would the officers want to endanger anyone by removing a completely legal carry?" (not counting the fact that removing the weapon was unnecessary and illegal.)

Item two: I'm not so much for asserting the 4th ammendment as I am the Washington State constitution Article 1 section 7. We are in Washington, and our state constitution's wording is stronger than the US constitution's
 

Schlepnier

Regular Member
Joined
May 12, 2011
Messages
420
Location
Yelm, Washington USA
I've had my own LEO encounter already and it is always good to be professional and polite, however as others have noted you should have refused the search as you effectively complied to an illegal act. not only did they commit a federal crime in the act of it, they also violated WA state RCW 9A. 80. 010. which is a gross misdemenor that those officers should be charged with.

The answer is real simple
What crime are you investigating? what is your RS to make a legal terry stop? if it is not a legal terry stop(you would have to have been in the commision of a crime so i think you would notice) i am under no legal compulsion to be detained, answer any questions, or submit to a search.

This is how it should have played out-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ifv5qfuXmKQ
 

fhsantos

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2011
Messages
42
Location
Spokane
I appreciate the youtube link, helps out a lot. I've looked at a few but most are guys just wanting to really push their limits by looking for trouble, this guy just sounds like he actually is eing harrassed.
 

amzbrady

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
3,521
Location
Marysville, Washington, USA
You stood your ground and covered your ass. Only thing I can add is to get a recorder.

+1 seems that is one of the most preached things on here. Record, record, record. Isnt there a saying "if you dont have pictures, it didnt happen", should be If you dont have a recording it didnt happen. Is it the encounters that bring people to OCDO? They come here looking for advice, after they have an encounter? Too bad they dont come here and learn how to handle it before it happens, then we would see so many encounters that are consensual within someones first 30 post's.

FHSANTOS, Are you going to post a copy of the police report when you get it. I would like to see how they do the write up. It would be awesome to get the dispatch recording too.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
I appreciate the youtube link, helps out a lot. I've looked at a few but most are guys just wanting to really push their limits by looking for trouble, this guy just sounds like he actually is eing harrassed.

Don't take this personal, but..... I like to ask people why they feel it's ok for police to "look for trouble" (proactive law enforcement), but it isn't OK for non governmental minions to Proactively police the police? I personally encourage it and would like to see more of it. It isn't looking for trouble when you are trying to keep our government employees on the up and up. And in my opinion more constitutional than "proactive" policing. After all "What do they have to hide". (Oh and they have no right to hide anything from the public, like the public does from them)
 

oneeyeross

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2010
Messages
500
Location
Winlock, , USA
While some people always seem willing to criticize others for some implied failure to stand up to the police, it should be remembered that the main point is to survive the "meeting" with them. Standing up to an officer with a Rambo/God complex (and we never know which officer that is) won't do you any good. Might help your widow out after the judge and jury give out the award, though...

We can't tell which officers are "Ian Burke" types, just like they can't tell which guy they walk up to is a crazed killer. I tend to give cops the benefit of the doubt, but I live in an area where we know the cops and the cops know us. Maybe we need to do away with cities?
 

Jeff Hayes

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
2,569
Location
Long gone
The problem with "give cops the benefit of the doubt" is that, unless you personally know who you are dealing with, then you don't know who you are dealing with. One must assume that they ARE dealing with one of the 1% of bad cops out there and, once it has been determined that you are not being detained to walk away from the encounter.

fhsantos did a lot better than most people do during their first encounter. He protected his ID from unlawful search and seizure. That's more than I did during my first encounter. What I have learned from my past encounters is "Are you detaining me?" If not, either leave (if they stopped you), or ask them to leave you alone like in a Tom Brewster coffee shop incident.

+1 well said
 

fhsantos

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2011
Messages
42
Location
Spokane
Filed a written report of the stop this morning as well as spoke with a PD Sgt. He agreed that the stop was not lefit & gave me a few pointers, pretty much the same things others have suggested I do next time. Big thing was unless I am given a law breaking reason then I am by law free to go.
 

Mainsail

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
1,533
Location
Silverdale, Washington, USA
What I have learned from my past encounters is "Are you detaining me?" If not, either leave (if they stopped you), or ask them to leave you alone like in a Tom Brewster coffee shop incident.

+1

All the way to page two before someone mentions that you shouldn't debate, discuss, or engage the officers.

What are the first words out of your mouth when the police approach? "Am I being detained?"

Practice it in front of the mirror if you have to.

Good job on not surrendering your ID.
 

Phssthpok

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
1,026
Location
, ,

The officers said thank you for my cooperation, shook my hand & let me be on my way.

Remember folks: CO-OPERATION is cop speak for CAPITULATION.

(sqwaaaaawk *whistle*)

What are the first words out of your mouth when the police approach? "Am I being detained?"

Personally I prefer to open with "Am I under arrest?" then move onto "detained" on the theory that when you start walking you have hamstrung their ability to claim 'resisting arrest' if things take a left turn. But that's just me.
 
Last edited:

oneeyeross

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2010
Messages
500
Location
Winlock, , USA
The problem with "give cops the benefit of the doubt" is that, unless you personally know who you are dealing with, then you don't know who you are dealing with.

One of the main reasons I don't OC outside of Lewis county. I've read too many horror stories on here about what some of the metro police types can be like....I have no desire to get "Birked"....
 

Stat

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Messages
35
Location
Tumwater
"I am of darker skin"

(In my best German voice)

Let me see your papers!


-You did good
 

fhsantos

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2011
Messages
42
Location
Spokane
Didn't record the conversation, it was my first stop so now I'm learning what is okay & what isn't. Will get the report scanned as soon as I get a chance, just hurt my back today so kinda bed ridden til I can wash some of the sand outta my areas...
 
Top