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Thread: Pierce County deputies CONVICTED of perjury in a firearms related case.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Pierce County deputies CONVICTED of perjury in a firearms related case.

    Two Pierce County sheriff's deputies accused of perjury were found guilty this afternoon.
    Jeff Montgomery, 36, and Rex McNicol, 48, were convicted of providing false testimony during a March 16, 2010, pretrial hearing in the case of an Orting-area convicted felon suspected of illegally possessing a firearm.
    Read more: http://www.thenewstribune.com/2011/09/23/1836792/pierce-county-deputies-convicted.html#ixzz1Yp3XgLni

    P
    ierce County has now several strike's against their stance on citizens with firearms, just ask Tom Brewster.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Good!

    Now look who don't get to possess firearms.....
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Good!

    Now look who don't get to possess firearms.....
    Satisfying on one level, yes.

    But, we have to remember that even scum have a human right to protect themselves.

    I would be willing to consider a full pardon and restoration of rights if the two mounted an effective campaign for reform and the abolition of the Blue Wall of Silence. Essays published in police industry periodicals, effective lobbying, exposes on national television about the Blue Wall of Silence and police testilying (police jargon--us common citizens call it perjury).

    I think I'd have to have some pretty solid evidence of a character change before I agreed with being a cop again, or holding public office. But, I'd definitely consider pardon and restoration of rights, depending on their actual effectiveness on my suggested way to make amends.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Satisfying on one level, yes.

    But, we have to remember that even scum have a human right to protect themselves.

    I would be willing to consider a full pardon and restoration of rights if the two mounted an effective campaign for reform and the abolition of the Blue Wall of Silence. Essays published in police industry periodicals, effective lobbying, exposes on national television about the Blue Wall of Silence and police testilying (police jargon--us common citizens call it perjury).

    I think I'd have to have some pretty solid evidence of a character change before I agreed with being a cop again, or holding public office. But, I'd definitely consider pardon and restoration of rights, depending on their actual effectiveness on my suggested way to make amends.
    I totally agree, I forgot to put sarcasm on my last statement, my bad,. I find it humorous though that most police and those who love police also strongly support the taking away of a persons natural right to protect themselves for committing a "felony". The ridiculousness of the situation is that in Washington it is a class C felony to gamble online.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Blue Wall of Silence.
    You crack me up, dude. "Blue wall of silence" indeed. Hey, perjury is perjury. These blokes were found guilty and shall now have to live with the consequences of their actions. Yeah, this situation really ties in to the concept of internet gambling ... (??)
    Last edited by Bo; 09-24-2011 at 02:33 AM.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    The ridiculousness of the situation is that in Washington it is a class C felony to gamble online.
    Now, after that big contribution the Casino's gave Mrs. Gov, you wouldn't want the legislature to allow any compitition would you?

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Well at least we are seeing the weeding out of those who will lie to violate others rights, this is a good move.
    In Yakima there are two officers under investigation for unauthorized expenditures while attending a training and another lying on a warrant.
    The public deserves to have good representatives of law enforcement in protecting and ensuring ones rights are not violated.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bo View Post
    You crack me up, dude. "Blue wall of silence" indeed. Hey, perjury is perjury. These blokes were found guilty and shall now have to live with the consequences of their actions. Yeah, this situation really ties in to the concept of internet gambling ... (??)
    Perjury is worse when it is committed by the states minions, with the power to send you away and to take away your natural rights.

    You really don't see the irony in this situation?

    Them trying to frame somebody and lying about it because he was a 'felon' and shouldn't have guns in the process committed a felony and lost their gun rights? It's funny and not in a har har way, because it happens all to often.

    Also let me try to help you get the concept that a natural right is a natural right, whether these cops should be armed to be able to protect themselves and their family or somebody who has gambled online, see how the state keeps lowering the bar of what a felony is? Is gambling on line as bad as cops committing perjury? Nope but it is a felony nonetheless. Like I said before I will always be on the side of "individual" liberty.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  9. #9
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Well at least we are seeing the weeding out of those who will lie to violate others rights, this is a good move.
    In Yakima there are two officers under investigation for unauthorized expenditures while attending a training and another lying on a warrant.
    The public deserves to have good representatives of law enforcement in protecting and ensuring ones rights are not violated.
    I am hoping that their is a tide turning, maybe in part because the public are getting fed up with it, and internet lets so much more problems more public than before.

    Part of the problem though is "law enforcement". We don't need a paramilitary police force ensuring the will of the state.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post

    But, we have to remember that even scum have a human right to protect themselves.
    However in this case the "scum" were sworn to protect the public. Why give these "special" people any breaks at all?

    I wonder where the "Union" stands on this? Will they be paying for attorneys to appeal this for the next 10 years or so? Will these officers still be performing their "duties" in the meanwhile?

    Unfortunately these are only "two rats" in a whole colony of rats that have been caught, tried, and convicted. How many others remain that are guilty of exactly the same crime?
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    However in this case the "scum" were sworn to protect the public. Why give these "special" people any breaks at all?
    Because if they get killed while defenseless, they can't clean up the police side of the system?

    You'll notice I set a pretty high hurdle for them to clear. If they undertake the project and complete it successfully, its going to go along ways towards proving they took responsibility for their actions, changed their attitudes, and have adopted a new set of values.

    Also, you'll note I wasn't decided yet on whether to let them serve in government even after completing the clean up activities.

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Here's an idea for a new evening true crime drama:

    Liars in Blue

    Come on Dick Wolf, it'd be a more realistic drama than Law and Order.
    Last edited by Dave_pro2a; 09-24-2011 at 03:49 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    SNIP Unfortunately these are only "two rats" in a whole colony of rats that have been caught, tried, and convicted. How many others remain that are guilty of exactly the same crime?
    I know you were asking rhetorically, but I'm going to use it for a little educational purpose.

    Anyone interested might read Arrest-proof Yourself by Dale Carson.

    Carson is a former (Miami?) cop, FBI agent, and current criminal defense attorney. The book is really about how to keep out of trouble with cops. But, along the way, Carson gives some eye-opening information about cops to educate the reader and support his explanations. Very eye-opening.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post

    Also, you'll note I wasn't decided yet on whether to let them serve in government even after completing the clean up activities.
    They would certainly have little or no value as law officers once 'rehabilitated'. They will forever be "brady cops" and about the only function they might be able to perform would be purely administrative ones. Jobs that could be performed by far less expensive clerical help.
    Last edited by amlevin; 09-24-2011 at 06:28 PM.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    They would certainly have little or no value as law officers once 'rehabilitated'. They will forever be "brady cops" and about the only function they might be able to perform would be purely administrative ones. Jobs that could be performed by far less expensive clerical help.
    Good point. Thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Good!

    Now look who don't get to possess firearms.....
    Personally, I think it is sad when ANYONE, I don't care who they are, take actions that result in them losing the rights they would otherwise have. (Do not read this as condoning the commission of crime!)
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    Personally, I think it is sad when ANYONE, I don't care who they are, take actions that result in them losing the rights they would otherwise have. (Do not read this as condoning the commission of crime!)
    I agree.

    As you can see in my reply to Bo, (who is in Law Enforcement and has showed support in the past to these laws that ban folks from having guns), the irony of this particular situation.

    Here are tyrannical agents of the state who decide to lie and make up a story committing several crimes (including felonies) in doing so because this felon they are investigating shouldn't have a gun. I can't help but laugh at the ridiculousness of it all.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  18. #18
    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I agree.

    As you can see in my reply to Bo, (who is in Law Enforcement and has showed support in the past to these laws that ban folks from having guns), the irony of this particular situation.

    Here are tyrannical agents of the state who decide to lie and make up a story committing several crimes (including felonies) in doing so because this felon they are investigating shouldn't have a gun. I can't help but laugh at the ridiculousness of it all.
    Perhaps if they want to enforce the law (aka, screw with people's inalienable Rights), they should lose their citizenship when they break the laws (or oath) they are supposed to uphold.

    Can't legitimately legitimately take away their Rights, because they are inalienable. But losing citizenship based on abuse of fellow citizens under color of authority seems fair. They can move to Russia.

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