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Thread: Appleton city parks

  1. #1
    Regular Member Snake161's Avatar
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    Appleton city parks

    So we are having a birthday party in a city park later this week, and I wanted to know if it is legal to open carry there. This is the only topic I guess I never thought of before. I decided to check with appleton pd and was told no weapons allowed in the park. Im not sure if i believe this, I think she may have just said it to be safe. Does anybody know if this is true.

  2. #2
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    I did some quick looking on the city website and found nothing noting weapons in a park. Unless someone finds a specific ordinance banning firearms in a park in the city and you are not within 1000' of a school, you should be good to go.

    Make sure you are not impaired.

    Have a good time and stay safe!
    Last edited by xd40 neenah; 09-25-2011 at 03:21 PM. Reason: correction
    Carry: XD .40 4"

  3. #3
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    Go here first

    http://wilawlibrary.gov/topics/ordinances.php


    Then here
    http://www.appleton.org/municipal_code/


    Download the Municipal Code and perform a search.

    I tried "firearm", "gun", and "weapon"

    this is what I found.

    Sec. 10-3. Adoption of state law regarding carrying of

    weapons.

    W.S.A. §939.22(10) and §941.23 regarding weapons,

    exclusive of the penalty, is hereby adopted and made an

    offense punishable as a violation of this Code.

    (Code 1965, §8.01(2))

    Cross reference(s) – Citation for violation of certain

    ordinances, §1-17; schedule of deposits for citation, §1-18.
    Ask the police dept to give you the source for their statement.

    oops, found this

    Sec 13-4. Prohibited items or uses.
    In addition to otherwise illegal activities, the following
    shall be prohibited within the boundaries of any park:
    (a) Building of fires other than cooking fires provided
    such cooking fires are limited to City provided grills or
    commercially produced barbeque grills or kettles located
    within parks under the jurisdiction of the Parks and
    Recreation Department. No fires of any kind shall be
    permitted on trails or on or adjacent to stormwater
    management facilities.
    (b) Possession of any firearm or weapon of any kind
    except for archery as part of an authorized recreation
    program or at the archery range in Appleton Memorial
    Park.
    Last edited by phred; 09-24-2011 at 10:20 PM.

  4. #4
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    While they have a ordinance against it, it cannot be enforced due to preemption.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  5. #5
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xd40 neenah View Post
    I did some quick looking on the city website and found nothing noting weapons in a park. Unless someone finds a specific ordinance banning firearms in a park in the city and you are not within 1000' of a school, you should be good to go.

    Also, make sure you are well away from alcohol while carrying, police will not find that as a good situation and will take the liberty of giving you new jewelry for a time.

    Have a good time and stay safe!
    Please, let's not start this again. I can drink and carry if I want. I just cannot be 'materially impaired'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    Please, let's not start this again. I can drink and carry if I want. I just cannot be 'materially impaired'.
    Sorry, corrected
    Carry: XD .40 4"

  7. #7
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    While they have a ordinance against it, it cannot be enforced due to preemption.
    Unfortunately I have not found a single lawyer who shares this opinion and I have talked to several. The State has a similar Statute (State Park Ban) so counties/municipalities are free to ban firearms from parks.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Grant Guess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    Unfortunately I have not found a single lawyer who shares this opinion and I have talked to several. The State has a similar Statute (State Park Ban) so counties/municipalities are free to ban firearms from parks.
    That will be challenged and the counties/municipalities will lose...without question.
    Gun Control Defined: The theory that people who are willing to ignore laws against rape, torture, kidnapping, theft and murder will obey a law which prohibits them from owning or carrying a firearm.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grant Guess View Post
    That will be challenged and the counties/municipalities will lose...without question.
    If you say so. Go ahead and see how it works out for you...
    Come November 1st if you possess a license, you are golden. Without a license, not so much. No matter how much you try to rationalize it, the facts remain that the State Statute banning carry in Parks without a license is still there and a municipal Park ban has never been ruled to be preempted.
    Last edited by Interceptor_Knight; 09-26-2011 at 12:28 AM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    If you and your lawyers say so.

    I mean has any ban been preempted? Since, you know, the law hasn't even gone into effect yet...
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  11. #11
    Regular Member Grant Guess's Avatar
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    I cannot wait to read about the first flatfoot that is dumb enough to write a citation for that and get nailed with a fine...per the rules within Act 35.
    Gun Control Defined: The theory that people who are willing to ignore laws against rape, torture, kidnapping, theft and murder will obey a law which prohibits them from owning or carrying a firearm.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    If you and your lawyers say so.

    I mean has any ban been preempted? Since, you know, the law hasn't even gone into effect yet...
    Quote Originally Posted by Grant Guess View Post
    I cannot wait to read about the first flatfoot that is dumb enough to write a citation for that and get nailed with a fine...per the rules within Act 35.
    Act 35 only allows a licensee or an out-of-state licensee to carry in a State Park. It only explicitly prohibits a municipality from banning carry on land by a licensee or OOS licensee. If a municipality has a Park ban on carry and they see someone Open Carry, a LEO may ask to see a permit (and ID) and not be in violation of Act 35.
    Knock yourself out and try your luck.

    943.13 (1m) (b) Enters or remains on any land of
    another after having been notified by the owner or occupant
    not to enter or remain on the premises. This paragraph
    does not apply to a licensee or out−of−state
    licensee
    if the owner’s or occupant’s intent is to prevent
    the licensee or out−of−state licensee from carrying a firearm
    on the owner’s or occupant’s land.
    DOJ FAQ
    Can a business or property owner limit or prohibit the carrying of concealed weapons on its
    premises?
    Yes. The law permits certain owners and occupants of property to prohibit persons from
    carrying a concealed firearm in or on the property. A person may be subject to a Class B
    forfeiture if he or she carries a firearm on the property after being notified not to remain
    on the property or remain with a specific type of firearm. In the latter case, a property
    owner can prohibit a person form possessing a specific type of firearm on their property
    or any firearm. Wis. Stat. § 943.13(1m)(b)

    We got screwed. There is no doubt about it. There were alot of promises regarding unlicensed Open Carry which were not honored. The reality is that if you want to carry Openly or Concealed and you are in an urban area, you will need a license in order to make it practical.
    Last edited by Interceptor_Knight; 09-26-2011 at 10:15 AM.

  13. #13
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post


    We got screwed. There is no doubt about it. There were alot of promises regarding unlicensed Open Carry which were not honored. The reality is that if you want to carry Openly or Concealed and you are in an urban area, you will need a license in order to make it practical.

    Actually we need Constitutional Carry, we need to recall Walker, and vote Pam Galloway for Gov to make it all practical.

    But by all means, keep posting. You'll get it right eventually.

    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  14. #14
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    Actually we need Constitutional Carry, we need to recall Walker, and vote Pam Galloway for Gov to make it all practical.

    But by all means, keep posting. You'll get it right eventually.
    Walker would not have vetoed Constitutional Carry. It does not matter who the Governor is. We have timid Republicans in the WI Assembly and Senate who fought FOR a permit system with mandatory training.

  15. #15
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    ... How soon we forget.

    They wanted a so-called “constitutional carry” system that allows anyone who can legally own a firearm to carry it without a permit. After it gained some legislative support, Gov. Scott Walker sank such a proposal by saying he wouldn’t sign a bill that didn’t require permitting and training.
    http://host.madison.com/ct/news/loca...cc4c002e0.html

    Just last week, Governor Walker showed his true colors and the state legislature fell in lockstep by turning SB93 — the nopermit Constitutional Carry bill — into one requiring permits and training, at Walker’s insistence.

    Instead, the governor harpooned Constitutional Carry against the wishes of gun owners when he went public on June 3, 2011 with a demand for the legislature to bring him a permit bill.

    Walker refused to comment on Constitutional Carry until late last week when WEAU-13 news Eau Claire reported, “Walker issued a statement Friday saying any bill that reaches his desk should include a permit and training” (Walker: Concealed carry needs permit, training 6/3/11).
    http://www.ammoland.com/2011/07/01/c...n-republicans/

    Walker: Concealed Carry Needs Permit, Training
    Some Police Call For Permits, Database

    Updated: 1:14 pm CDT June 3, 2011

    MADISON, Wis. -- Gov. Scott Walker said any concealed carry bill that emerges from the state Legislature should require permits and training provisions.
    http://www.channel3000.com/politics/...70/detail.html


    I've also posted the video interview of Walker betraying Constitutional Carry in his own words here on the forum before.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  16. #16
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    If the only public quote is him stating "should", then that is weak evidence. Should is a far cry from "must".
    Last edited by Interceptor_Knight; 09-26-2011 at 01:50 PM.

  17. #17
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    If the only public quote is him stating "should", then that is weak evidence. Should is a far cry from "must".
    My apologies. I did not know of your inability to read till know. Once again I apologize.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  18. #18
    Regular Member Grant Guess's Avatar
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    They cannot ban them because the entire point of having a preemption law was so that municipalities could not have laws greater than state law AND so that laws would be uniform.

    ACT 35 calls for gov't buildings to be posted against CCW and those not posted are presumed to allow lawful carrying. ACT 35 doesn't say anything about lands owned by the cities, counties or townships. To imagine that the prohibition on state parks somehow translates into city, county or town parks is a stretch.
    Gun Control Defined: The theory that people who are willing to ignore laws against rape, torture, kidnapping, theft and murder will obey a law which prohibits them from owning or carrying a firearm.

  19. #19
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grant Guess View Post
    ....
    Whatever guy. Until you can back up what you say with the opinions of multiple unnamed lawyers basing their comments on preemptions of laws not yet in place... Well then Sir, you got nuthin'.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  20. #20
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grant Guess View Post
    ACT 35 calls for gov't buildings to be posted against CCW and those not posted are presumed to allow lawful carrying. ACT 35 doesn't say anything about lands owned by the cities, counties or townships. To imagine that the prohibition on state parks somehow translates into city, county or town parks is a stretch.
    What Act 35 did was leave the existing 943.13(1m)(b) (trespassing statute) intact and simply added an exemption to licensees only. The municipality may issue a trespassing citation if they post a park indicating that you may not carry a firearm without a license. The State Park Statute is similar and no less stringent therefore, the municipality may ban firearms from their parks. This is fact until someone is found guilty of a violation and they appeals it.
    943.13 (1m) (b) Enters or remains on any land of
    another after having been notified by the owner or occupant
    not to enter or remain on the premises. This paragraph
    does not apply to a licensee or out−of−state
    licensee
    if the owner’s or occupant’s intent is to prevent
    the licensee or out−of−state licensee from carrying a firearm
    on the owner’s or occupant’s land.
    Last edited by Interceptor_Knight; 09-26-2011 at 02:18 PM.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    My apologies. I did not know of your inability to read till know. Once again I apologize.
    Your inability to read until now.

  22. #22
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    Your inability to read until now.
    You can't read. I can't write. I guess we are at a stand-off.

    >shrugs and hits "ignore"<


    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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