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Washington OCer busted in Astoria

Lord Sega

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Jul 10, 2010
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311
Location
Warrenton, Oregon
One reason I'm paranoid to cross state lines, I can't memorize every state/city rule, so I'm just focusing on Oregon (OC with CHL).
We really need to push for one set of laws across the US, it'll never happen, but sure would be nice.

13 Aug 2011 - Gun at parade
At 12:48 p.m. Saturday, at the Lektro Grand Land Parade in Astoria, an Astoria police officer seized a loaded handgun from Russell Jackson, 30, of Hoquiam, Wash., who was standing at the corner of 16th and Duane streets. Russell was carrying the gun in a holster and told the officer he thought that, with the exception of a few Oregon cities, it was legal to carry a gun in the open in Oregon. According to Astoria Deputy Chief of Police, an Astoria city ordinance forbids carrying a loaded firearm in the open without a concealed weapons permit.

Astoria is one "of a few Oregon cities" that has a unloaded OC ordinance, sorry Russell. :(

Class C Misdemeanor punishable by up to thirty (30) days confinement and/or a fine in an amount not to exceed five hundred dollars ($500.00).

I'm thinking of doing a FOIA request just to get more info and see what else happened, the little blurb in the paper doesn't say he was arrested, just that the handgun was seized.
Doesn't he have to be arrested or at least cited for the weapon to be seized?
Why couldn't the LEO just have him unload to be legal with a verbal warning, or would that make too much sense?
 

SovereignAxe

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Elizabethton, TN
And the so called "National Reciprocity Bill" does nothing to change this.

This. If he doesn't have a permit from WA to begin with, he still wouldn't be in the clear. That's why if I lived in a state that recognized the difference, I would definitely be getting my conceal permit so that I could a least be a little more in the clear if I go to another state.

I for one would benefit from the reciprocity act because my carry permit is not recognized in the state of Oregon :|
 

Dogbait

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Oregon
I would like to see the records on this incident. Was his gun was seized before they found him without a permit or after? Also this is a good instance where not talking to police is important.

Sent from my HTC EVO
 
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hermannr

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Okanogan Highland
And the so called "National Reciprocity Bill" does nothing to change this.

Actually, in a way you are correct, but in a way you are not.

As it is today, Oregon does not recognize anyone's permit, but their own. However, If the person had a WA CPL, and HR 822 had been passed and was in effect, then the Astoria regulation would not effect him, as permit holders are exempt from those local laws.

For those in OR, that do not know...this could not have happened in WA. The state has total premption over all local law for any carry, OC or CC, with permit, or without. (except those specifically allowed by the legislature which only concern the discharge of firearms).

There are no special OC or CC laws in any city of WA that do not conform to RCW 9.41. If there is, like Seattle tried with their parks, they get a slap on the hand and are told by the courts their ordinance is null and void and must be repealed/removed/not enforced ec.
 
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aadvark

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To Whomever it may Concern:

Oregon ONLY Reconizes Their OWN Permits!

Washington Concealed Pistol Permits are just Plastic in Oregon!

Oregon is an Open Carry State, however; Oregon Allows Cities and Counties to Regulate LOADED Firearms in Public Places within Their Jurisdictions, under Oregon Revised Statute 166.173(1).

*** Oregon Defines a Firearm as LOADED if: 1 Ammunition is in The Firearm, in any Manner, OR 2 Ammunition for that Firearm is Attached to that Firearm (even if NOT Inserted or Placed into a Firing Position)! ***

If The City/County Loaded Firearm Ban Option is Emplemented under ORS 166.173(1), then, The Prohibition CANNOT Apply to or Effect Persons who have a Concealed Handgun License, under Oregon Revised Code 166.173(2)(c).

However, since because Oregon does NOT Reconize anybodys Permit, but Their Own, then, a Washington State Permit Holder CANNOT Claim The Defense under Oregon Revised Code 166.173(2)(c)!

aadvark

*** Oregon Gun Laws are a Blend Between California AND Washington, though. ***
 
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Badger Johnson

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Jan 12, 2011
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USA
^^ But, you forgot The Fizbin Edict(*), which says it's also illegal on Tuesday...at night, even if you're carrying a trout and have a Royal Fizbin.

[(*) The most complicated game in the known Universe, excepting, perhaps, US handgun Law.]
 
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LaVere

Regular Member
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May 14, 2007
Messages
264
Location
The remains of Flint, Michigan, USA
This is why Oregon needs the preemption law. How can anyone know the gun laws of every city. Only state law apply period.
Also you need reciplcal with all states. There is more requirements in Michigan and you don't accept mine. We accept yours.

Please work on this. I would like to bring my gun and carry when I visit my son.
 

Lord Sega

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Warrenton, Oregon
Oregon does have preemption, but...

... the state preemption allows cities (and counties) to set regulations on loaded open carry in public places & on weapon discharge.
But those ordinances do not apply to or affect a person with a CHL.

See ORS 166.170 through 173 link

Check again, as far as I know, Oregon does not accept any other state's CCW/CHL, and I'm pretty sure none take ours.
National reciprocity would be a good start to making all carry laws in all states the same so there is only one set of laws to memorize/follow.

Side note, been busy, but hope to get in tomorrow to submit FOIA for more details on what happened.
 
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JoeSparky

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... the state preemption allows cities (and counties) to set regulations on loaded open carry in public places & on weapon discharge.
But those ordinances do not apply to or affect a person with a CHL.

See ORS 166.170 through 173 link

Check again, as far as I know, Oregon does not accept any other state's CCW/CHL, and I'm pretty sure none take ours.
National reciprocity would be a good start to making all carry laws in all states the same so there is only one set of laws to memorize/follow.

Side note, been busy, but hope to get in tomorrow to submit FOIA for more details on what happened.

For the record--- UTAH recognizes ANY permit issued by ANY State or County IN THE US!
 

bigtoe416

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Oregon
Check again, as far as I know, Oregon does not accept any other state's CCW/CHL, and I'm pretty sure none take ours.
National reciprocity would be a good start to making all carry laws in all states the same so there is only one set of laws to memorize/follow.

There are actually quite a few states that recognize Oregon's CHL: Alaska, Arizona, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Michigan, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Vermont

But you're right that Oregon recognizes no other state's license, which is silly at best.
 

CharleyCherokee

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Mar 27, 2011
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WesternKy
I'm fairly certain that Kentucky doesn't honor any states license if they don't in turn honor theirs. It would be somewhere in KRS 237.110 probably. However, I'm fairly certain I recall reading that they don't honor another state's license if theirs isn't honored in return.
 

MilProGuy

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Mississippi
I'm fairly certain that Kentucky doesn't honor any states license if they don't in turn honor theirs. It would be somewhere in KRS 237.110 probably. However, I'm fairly certain I recall reading that they don't honor another state's license if theirs isn't honored in return.

And, as a state, that is a fair way to handle it.
 

bigtoe416

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Oregon
I'm fairly certain that Kentucky doesn't honor any states license if they don't in turn honor theirs. It would be somewhere in KRS 237.110 probably. However, I'm fairly certain I recall reading that they don't honor another state's license if theirs isn't honored in return.

Hmm...if that's true then this map is wrong.

Also, I dig your avatar. Samurai Champloo FTW.
 

Teddybearfrmhell

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348
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Cottage Grove, Oregon, USA
I'm fairly certain that Kentucky doesn't honor any states license if they don't in turn honor theirs. It would be somewhere in KRS 237.110 probably. However, I'm fairly certain I recall reading that they don't honor another state's license if theirs isn't honored in return.

i am fairly certain that you are wrong, here is an excerpt from the kentucky state police website....


CCDW Reciprocity

Effective, July 15, 1998, Kentucky recognizes valid carry concealed weapons licenses issued by other states and, subject to the provisions of Kentucky law, a person holding a valid license from another state may carry a concealed deadly weapon in Kentucky.

Written inquiries regarding recognition of Kentucky carry concealed licenses have been made to all states and U.S. territories. The map and chart below detail those responses.
 

hermannr

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Mar 24, 2011
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Okanogan Highland
I just finished reading the pamphlet on the #1 sticky on this forum, and now I am confused.

Your OR OC Pamphlet says Astoria has no firearms without a CHL in "Parks" I see nothing about OC in Town????

Edit to add Astoria 5.010: My bold.

5.010 Carrying Loaded Firearm Unlawful.
(A) No person shall knowingly carry a loaded firearm in a park, school ground or public building.
(B) No person shall knowingly carry a loaded firearm on a public street or in a public place, or in a vehicle under the person's control or in which the person is an occupant.
(C) Subsections (A) and (B) of this section shall not apply to:
...
(3) Any person having a valid permit issued to the person by lawful authority to carry or use concealed firearms;

I am not gong to test this theory, BUT, consider that Astoria does NOT require an OR CHL...only a permit issued by lawful authority....I hope the guy had a WA CPL...I can see this being a good argument.

Yes I know full well that THE STATE of Oregon does not recognize anyone's permit but their own...but this is not State law, this is a local law.....and as everyone here knows, law is as written, not as we wish it to mean...if my argument is correct or not would be for a city court to decide.
 
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Gray Peterson

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Lynnwood, Washington, USA
The rules of this is interesting. This law was passed previous to the preemption statutes which passed in Oregon in 1995.

For example, the state law on preemption exemptions states that cities can ban loaded carry without a CHL and a few other narrow exemptions that do not apply to the general public. For example, a security officer with a DPSST Armed Guard Card is not statutorily exempt by state law from loaded carry bans. This is why nearly every armed guard I know in Oregon has a concealed handgun license, to cover for public building and "loaded carry" bans that occur.

The state law provides a floor for exemptions. For example, Beaverton has numerous exemptions for security officers and other activities along with the state statutory exemptions. Portland, however, only exempts armed security officers for banks. Rather than ask for a letter exemption from the Portland Police Bureau Chief, every armed security company in Portland requires the security guards to acquire a Oregon Concealed Handgun License.

The language of the Astoria law may actually cover this guy assuming he has a Washington State Concealed Pistol License. I will be trying to find out who his attorney is and reach out with suggestions for a defense.

This should be a lesson: Acquirement of a Concealed Handgun License in Oregon, if you are legally allowed to do so, is basically for all intents and purposes a requirement if you open carry. Both Multnomah AND Grant Counties will issue you a CHL for self defense.
 
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