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Thread: Grrr...Milwaukee Biz that produces NO-CCW signs.

  1. #1
    Regular Member Grant Guess's Avatar
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    Grrr...Milwaukee Biz that produces NO-CCW signs.

    Gun Control Defined: The theory that people who are willing to ignore laws against rape, torture, kidnapping, theft and murder will obey a law which prohibits them from owning or carrying a firearm.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Grant Guess's Avatar
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    WHOIS search results for: CNISECURITY.COM (Registered)
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    Registrant:
    Palm Security

    2605 w. kimberly ave
    milwaukee, Wisconsin 53221
    United States

    Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (http://www.godaddy.com)
    Domain Name: CNISECURITY.COM
    Created on: 28-Aug-11
    Expires on: 28-Aug-12
    Last Updated on: 28-Aug-11

    Administrative Contact:
    janiszewski, scott scottjaniszewski@gmail.com
    Palm Security
    2605 w. kimberly ave
    milwaukee, Wisconsin 53221
    United States
    (414) 292-7921

    Technical Contact:
    janiszewski, scott scottjaniszewski@gmail.com
    Palm Security
    2605 w. kimberly ave
    milwaukee, Wisconsin 53221
    United States
    (414) 292-7921
    Gun Control Defined: The theory that people who are willing to ignore laws against rape, torture, kidnapping, theft and murder will obey a law which prohibits them from owning or carrying a firearm.

  3. #3
    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    Maybe they'll all buy the 3"x9" one! (law requires it to be at least 5x7)
    A. Gold

    Failure to comply may result in discipline up to and including termination.
    The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"

  4. #4
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    Do you think they issue a disclaimer to their customers that under 175.60(21)(a)and (b) that the customer could be subject to civil liability if they post their buildings and a lawfully licensed to carry person is injured or killed by a violent act of a third party while in those premisis. Also, do you suppose they mention that the establishments liability insurance may take a big increase because of that possibility. I'm being facetious on both counts but all coins have two sides.

    It isn't so much that the above paragraph gives immunity to establishments that don't post. It is that the paragraph also can make establishments subject to civil liablility if they do post. Amazing how the paranoia of guns can trump common sense.

    My opinion

  5. #5
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    To post or not to post

    I sent the following memo to a few local businesses and city councils. If you agree with it and think it may be of value feel free to use it.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    2011Act 35 takes effect on November 2011. It is the Act that allows the carry of concealed weapons in Wisconsin. In anticipation of Act 35 many private and public establishments are contemplating posting signs prohibiting carry of firearms in their buildings. Most of that contemplation is apparently driven by the paranoia that law-abiding citizens will misuse their new privilege, the privilege to carry concealed firearms to protect themselves and others from harm. Perhaps those establishments have not read or obtained legal opinion of Act 35. More specifically paragraphs 175.60(21)(a) and (b). Those paragraphs give immunity to any establishment or employer that does not post firearm prohibition. However, in the same vein those paragraphs also put an implied legal responsibility on those establishments that do post their facilities.

    Establishments that do decide to post their buildings accept the risk of possible civil liability if a person qualified to carry a firearm is denied entry unless unarmed. If that person is injured or killed when if they had been armed may have prevented the violence, the owner or proprietor of the posted facilities could be held liable for any injuries. Liability that could amount to a considerable value.

    Not only is the civil liability a consideration so is the consideration of insurance costs. The wording of Act 35 puts a presumed legal responsibility on an establishment to assure a personís safety if the establishment unarms that person. Accordingly, it would not be surprising if insurance companies increase the cost of liability insurance for those establishments that prohibit lawful carry of firearms. This could amount to considerable expense, especially for high risk private and public businesses.

    Statistical evidence from other states with a long history of a concealed carry privilege prove that misuse of that privilege is exceedingly low, in fact not statistically significant.. It is many hundreds of times lower than the incidence of customer injury due to robbery or other acts of violence within business establishments. The comparative figures do not make the potential legal liability and higher insurance costs of posting a reasonable decision.

  6. #6
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    it blows my mind that people are content with the "feel good" effect of signs

  7. #7
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shotgun
    Maybe they'll all buy the 3"x9" one! (law requires it to be at least 5x7)
    Or the one that says "no concealed firearms"... fine by me, I'll OC.
    And the ones banning all "weapons"? Doesn't matter - all Act35 allows them to ban are firearms.
    (I could be misremembering... convince me otherwise w/ a cite.)
    Quote Originally Posted by MLK, Jr
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie
    Citizenship is a verb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 31:17
    She dresses herself with strength and makes her arms strong.

  8. #8
    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nemo View Post
    I sent the following memo to a few local businesses and city councils. If you agree with it and think it may be of value feel free to use it.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ....
    Great memo! I think I might preface it with the subject line, "The wrong decision on this matter could be very expensive."
    Dave
    45ACP-For when you care enough to send the very best-
    Fight for "Stand Your Ground " legislation!

    WI DA Gerald R. Fox:
    "These so-called 'public safety' laws only put decent law-abiding citizens at a dangerous disadvantage when it comes to their personal safety, and I for one am glad that this decades-long era of defective thinking on gun issues is over..."

    Remember: Don't make old People mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to piss us off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Or the one that says "no concealed firearms"... fine by me, I'll OC.
    And the ones banning all "weapons"? Doesn't matter - all Act35 allows them to ban are firearms.
    (I could be misremembering... convince me otherwise w/ a cite.)
    They can ban any and all weapons, except those stored/carried in vehicles. If they want to ban firearms, trespass laws only apply if they post the required signage. If they want to ban other weapons, trespass laws apply regardless of whether signs are posted are not.

    Regarding a cite: the cite is all of 943. It says that you can't stay on someone else's property if the owner doesn't want you to, except that an owner has to 1) post signs in order for trespass law to apply regarding a firearm; and 2) post signs on land in order for a trespasser to be considered to be notified (for a general posting unrelated to firearms.

    Those are the only exceptions. Which means someone can ask you to leave because you're swearing, you remind grandma of her first husband's mistress, or anything other reason not explicitly excepted.
    Last edited by LaBomba; 09-25-2011 at 06:33 PM.

  10. #10
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    To What End?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nemo View Post
    I sent the following memo to a few local businesses and city councils. If you agree with it and think it may be of value feel free to use it.
    Why should a business pay heed to an unknown person's unsolicited opinion? Since presumably the sender would not be the recipient's attorney (and probably not an attorney period), such communication would likely be dispatched immediately to the circular file with a mental note that the sender is probably a gun nut. Not even a Clarence Darrow could know for sure what the impact of the law will be with any certainty. It also brings the issue to the attention of people who might not have cared. They will instinctively post just "to be on the safe side." The people that are going to post will post. Those who are not inclined to post, won't post. Messages of this type just stir the pot and cause the uninterested to be interested. Let's face it - no posting is the status quo/natural condition. It takes thought, energy and money to post. Leave sleeping dogs lie.
    Last edited by apjonas; 09-25-2011 at 06:39 PM.

  11. #11
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apjonas View Post
    Let's face it - no posting is the status quo/natural condition. It takes thought, energy and money to post. Leave sleeping dogs lie.
    +1

    I personally will not bring it up unless asked, posted, or a governmental body suggest an infringement.

  12. #12
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    apjonas:

    I don't know what axe you have to grind with me but the response I have received back from my memo is contrary to your diatride.

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    Super!

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nemo View Post
    apjonas:

    I don't know what axe you have to grind with me but the response I have received back from my memo is contrary to your diatride.
    I guess I was wrong. Why don't you post it for all to see?

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