Question about Parks

Brion · Sep 25, 2011

So I just had a question about city parks. I plan on having a b-day party for my kid at a local park and we made a reservation with the Department of Parks and Recreation. Simple question, do those kind of parks ban weapons or does that only apply to National Parks? I havn't seen any signs so I wanted to make sure that it wasn't already a blanket ban on parks in general.

bc.cruiser · Sep 25, 2011

This is an excerpt from a GRNC posting referring to the laws that take effect Dec 1. For now, and even after, check the local/county ordinances.

Section 21(b): Amends statewide firearms preemption such that local governments may still ban firearms "on local government buildings and their appurtenant premises," but may no longer ban firearms in parks. Due to the weakening amendment made by Rep. David Guice, a local government may still ban firearms in specifically named "recreational facilities" (defined as playgrounds, athletic fields, swimming pools, and athletic facilities), but gun owners may still keep firearms in enclosed compartments within motor vehicles.

This is from the NC Parks and Recreation site:
Are firearms allowed in a state park?

All deadly weapons, including firearms, airguns, bows and arrows, sling shots, or lethal missiles of any kind, or other deadly weapon is strictly prohibited in all areas owned or operated by the NC Division of Parks and Recreation except for commissioned park rangers and other authorized personnel. Cap pistols and fireworks are also prohibited

bc.cruiser · Sep 25, 2011

More.....

www.goldsboroparksandrec.com
97.05 Firearms
(A)It shall be unlawful for any person, except duly authorized
Recreation and Parks Department employees, park officials, or
law enforcement officers in the course of their duty to discharge,
shoot, fire or explode, or cause to be discharged, shot fired, or
exploded any firearm including, but not limited to air rifles, toy
pistols, toy guns, or other toy arms designed to forcibly hurl a
projectile or missile at any time or under any circumstances
within any park, or to carry any firearms or dangerous weapons
in any park. “Weapons” shall include knives with blade greater
than four inches in length, brass knuckles, clubs, or any item
specifically designed to inflict bodily harm.
(B) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry or to explode
any explosive device, to include fireworks, sparklers, smoke
bombs, firecrackers, roman candles, etc., in any park unless written
authority is given by the Recreation and Parks Director. (‘70
Code, 17-10(E)) (Ord. 1971-68, passed 12-6-71; Am. Ord. 1972-
40, passed 7-10-72; Am Ord. 1980-53, passed 10-6-80; Am.
Ord. 1982-27, passed 6-7-82; Am. Ord. 1986-7, passed 2-

papa bear · Sep 27, 2011

Brion said:
So I just had a question about city parks. I plan on having a b-day party for my kid at a local park and we made a reservation with the Department of Parks and Recreation. Simple question, do those kind of parks ban weapons or does that only apply to National Parks? I havn't seen any signs so I wanted to make sure that it wasn't already a blanket ban on parks in general.

BRION, first to just let you know you can bear legally carry in national parks now.

this is a subject that i have been battling for a while now. My grand kids love to go to the city parks , and it galls me that i am discriminated against there. the state of NC has allowed individual municipalities to discriminate in their jurisdiction. i could not find a city park that didn't ban self-defense. i do believe that the parks had to be posted to according to regulation.

however, as of the passing of hb 650 . state parks will be allowed carry now, although, if someone will correct me, it only allows CC

. if you will look into the bill it does make locals allow CC in city parks. but, they blew a big hole in it, by allowing the M/C/T to designate the area to be a athletic or playground, they can ban firearms carry. that covers a broad definition. BTW, if the park is posted, then you can secure it in your locked car, in the parking lot.

now the law comes into effect Dec. 1, 2011 :banana::banana: . could it be your township is already trying to comply with the law. Paul Valone , president for GRNC, wants everyone to be on the vigil to see what towns and cities are doing to comply. www.grnc.org/
if anyone of you are not a member. What's wrong with you :banghead:

ArmySoldier22 · Sep 27, 2011

papa bear said:
BRION, first to just let you know you can bear legally carry in national parks now.

this is a subject that i have been battling for a while now. My grand kids love to go to the city parks , and it galls me that i am discriminated against there. the state of NC has allowed individual municipalities to discriminate in their jurisdiction. i could not find a city park that didn't ban self-defense. i do believe that the parks had to be posted to according to regulation.

however, as of the passing of hb 650 . state parks are allowed carry now, although, if someone will correct me, it only allows CC . if you will look into the bill it does make locals allow CC in city parks. but, they blew a big hole in it, by allowing the M/C/T to designate the area to be a athletic or playground., that covers a broad definition. BTW, it also allows for if the park is posted, then you can secure it in your locked car, in the parking lot.

now the law comes into effect Dec. 1, 2011 :banana::banana: . could it be your township is already trying to comply with the law. Paul Valone , president for GRNC, wants everyone to be on the vigil to see what towns and cities are doing to comply. www.grnc.org/
if anyone of you are not a member. What's wrong with you :banghead:

I too would like to see if papa bears right as far as state parks go. There's a mountain near me that has great hiking trails and fishing and camping, but I hate not being able to carry there. Granted CC isn't what I want, but being that I ride a motorcycle, I'll probably be getting my CHP for this winter anyway

chiefjason · Sep 28, 2011

ArmySoldier22 said:
I too would like to see if papa bears right as far as state parks go. There's a mountain near me that has great hiking trails and fishing and camping, but I hate not being able to carry there. Granted CC isn't what I want, but being that I ride a motorcycle, I'll probably be getting my CHP for this winter anyway

Not effective till 12-1-2011 but here it is.

(c1) Any person who has a concealed handgun permit may carry a concealed handgun on the grounds or waters of a park within the State Parks System as defined in G.S. 113-44.9.

Page 7 at the bottom.

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/Sessions/2011/Bills/House/PDF/H650v6.pdf

Also, we have always been able to keep a firearm in the car at a city/county park. I don't care what the sign says. See caps.

(f) Nothing contained in this section prohibits municipalities or counties from application of their authority under G.S. 153A‑129, 160A‑189, 14‑269, 14‑269.2, 14‑269.3, 14‑269.4, 14‑277.2, 14‑415.11, 14‑415.23, including prohibiting the possession of firearms in public‑owned buildings, on the grounds or parking areas of those buildings, or in public parks or recreation areas, EXCEPT NOTHING IN THIS SUBSECTION SHALL PROHIBIT A PERSON FROM STORING A FIREARM WITHIN A MOTOR VEHICLE WHILE THE VEHICLE IS ON THESE GROUNDS OR AREAS.

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-409.40.html

ArmySoldier22 · Sep 28, 2011

chiefjason said:
Not effective till 12-1-2011 but here it is.

(c1) Any person who has a concealed handgun permit may carry a concealed handgun on the grounds or waters of a park within the State Parks System as defined in G.S. 113-44.9.

Page 7 at the bottom.

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/Sessions/2011/Bills/House/PDF/H650v6.pdf

Also, we have always been able to keep a firearm in the car at a city/county park. I don't care what the sign says. See caps.

(f) Nothing contained in this section prohibits municipalities or counties from application of their authority under G.S. 153A‑129, 160A‑189, 14‑269, 14‑269.2, 14‑269.3, 14‑269.4, 14‑277.2, 14‑415.11, 14‑415.23, including prohibiting the possession of firearms in public‑owned buildings, on the grounds or parking areas of those buildings, or in public parks or recreation areas, EXCEPT NOTHING IN THIS SUBSECTION SHALL PROHIBIT A PERSON FROM STORING A FIREARM WITHIN A MOTOR VEHICLE WHILE THE VEHICLE IS ON THESE GROUNDS OR AREAS.

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-409.40.html

Atleast it's a step back in the right direction to our constitutional rights. I have a question though.. and I could be completely wrong here, I'm still learning the statutes. But isn't school property covered in 14-269.2? I believe community colleges are technically even state property, and not private property. So wouldn't that mean that we could technically store a firearm in our vehicle? I know I've seen it stated many times that you're not allowed to do so. But If I'm right about that statute, then I'd assume that it overrides any other laws/rules on the matter?

If anybody has any insight, I'd appreciate some direction on the matter to get rid of my confusion lol.

David

Bearfoot · Sep 28, 2011

Another article in the local newspaper concerning the topic at hand.

http://www.newbernsj.com/news/taylor-100764-bessinger-team.html

chiefjason · Sep 28, 2011

ArmySoldier22 said:
Atleast it's a step back in the right direction to our constitutional rights. I have a question though.. and I could be completely wrong here, I'm still learning the statutes. But isn't school property covered in 14-269.2? I believe community colleges are technically even state property, and not private property. So wouldn't that mean that we could technically store a firearm in our vehicle? I know I've seen it stated many times that you're not allowed to do so. But If I'm right about that statute, then I'd assume that it overrides any other laws/rules on the matter?

If anybody has any insight, I'd appreciate some direction on the matter to get rid of my confusion lol.

David

Good catch. And good question, though I don't intend to be the test case. I think the catch may be that unloaded firearms in cars are actually addressed as being illegal. So why would loaded firearms be different? I think this just illustrates that some laws seem to be a bit vague so that the interpretation can be pushed in one direction, and that you just can't cover every single possibility. As an aside, I see where the legislature got the ridiculous idea from HB 650 of making you lock the firearm in a container inside a locked car. Seems to be from here. See f-3.

(f) Notwithstanding subsection (b) of this section it shall be a Class 1 misdemeanor rather than a Class I felony for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any gun, rifle, pistol, or other firearm of any kind, on educational property or to a curricular or extracurricular activity sponsored by a school if:
(1) The person is not a student attending school on the educational property or an employee employed by the school working on the educational property; and
(1a) The person is not a student attending a curricular or extracurricular activity sponsored by the school at which the student is enrolled or an employee attending a curricular or extracurricular activity sponsored by the school at which the employee is employed; and
(2) Repealed by Session Laws 1999‑211, s. 1, effective December 1, 1999, and applicable to offenses committed on or after that date.
(3) The firearm is not loaded, is in a motor vehicle, and is in a locked container or a locked firearm rack.

ArmySoldier22 · Sep 28, 2011

chiefjason said:
Good catch. And good question, though I don't intend to be the test case. I think the catch may be that unloaded firearms in cars are actually addressed as being illegal. So why would loaded firearms be different? I think this just illustrates that some laws seem to be a bit vague so that the interpretation can be pushed in one direction, and that you just can't cover every single possibility. As an aside, I see where the legislature got the ridiculous idea from HB 650 of making you lock the firearm in a container inside a locked car. Seems to be from here. See f-3.

(f) Notwithstanding subsection (b) of this section it shall be a Class 1 misdemeanor rather than a Class I felony for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any gun, rifle, pistol, or other firearm of any kind, on educational property or to a curricular or extracurricular activity sponsored by a school if:
(1) The person is not a student attending school on the educational property or an employee employed by the school working on the educational property; and
(1a) The person is not a student attending a curricular or extracurricular activity sponsored by the school at which the student is enrolled or an employee attending a curricular or extracurricular activity sponsored by the school at which the employee is employed; and
(2) Repealed by Session Laws 1999‑211, s. 1, effective December 1, 1999, and applicable to offenses committed on or after that date.
(3) The firearm is not loaded, is in a motor vehicle, and is in a locked container or a locked firearm rack.

It's just strange how one statute can say that NOTHING can override your rights, and yet a law is made to do just that. Yes, I know this goes all the way up to the 2nd amendment itself. It's just kinda sad to see it in so many places. I definitely wouldn't want to be the test case for this either, but it does look like somebody would legally have a case if they were put in this situation. It seems like any case where a judge ruled against a defendant in this situation, where this is the only thing the defendant is being charged with, could be filed as a mistrial because it specifically states that nothing can prohibit that right..

I know I've gotten completely off topic from this thread lol, sorry

David

papa bear · Sep 28, 2011

i have been wondering, by my reading 14-425.23, how is it going to be any different than what it is now? local governments may still post prohibitions against concealed carry of hand gun, in buildings and their appurtenant premises. and also "recreational facilities" identified by "local government" ( you know the ones that want to ban ).

"§ 14‑415.23. Statewide uniformity. It is the intent of the General Assembly to prescribe a uniform system for the regulation of legally carrying a concealed handgun. To insure uniformity, no political subdivisions, boards, or agencies of the State nor any county, city, municipality, municipal corporation, town, township, village, nor any department or agency thereof, may enact ordinances, rules, or regulations concerning legally carrying a concealed handgun. A unit of local government may adopt an ordinance to permit the posting of a prohibition against carrying a concealed handgun, in accordance with G.S. 14‑415.11(c), on local government buildings, their appurtenant premises, and parks.buildings and their appurtenant premises. A unit of local government may adopt an ordinance to prohibit, by posting, the carrying of a concealed handgun on municipal and county recreational facilities that are specifically identified by the unit of local government. If a unit of local government adopts such an ordinance with regard to recreational facilities, then the concealed handgun permittee may, nevertheless, secure the handgun in a locked vehicle within the trunk, glove box, or other enclosed compartment or area within or on the motor vehicle. For purposes of this section, the term "recreational facilities" includes only the following: a playground, an athletic field, a swimming pool, and an athletic facility."

edit note: the new bill has the part in red scratched out

their under line, not mine

chiefjason · Sep 29, 2011

papa bear, it would have been a lot different if there were no amendments to the original bill. Originally, CC was allowed in parks period. Then the facilities and playgrounds and other junk was added as an exception. They can't pass a law without exceptions I guess. My problems is that I can't place many parks I go to that don't have playgrounds. And the ones that don't, we don't go to anyway. They basically passed a nearly useless law, then said "Hey guys, look what we did for the 2A in NC." Well, the city/county parks part is nearly useless. There is some good stuff in the rest of the bill.

papa bear · Sep 29, 2011

Bearfoot said:
Another article in the local newspaper concerning the topic at hand.

http://www.newbernsj.com/news/taylor-100764-bessinger-team.html

BEARFOOT, i sent this articule into grnc and they sent me back a request, if someone could attend that meeting. i think they thought i was in the area. if you or if you know anyone that could attend, please do.
and let GRNC know. GRNCFFE@aol.com;

Thanks Chief, sometimes need a variation of what i already thought

Question about Parks

Brion

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bc.cruiser

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bc.cruiser

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papa bear

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ArmySoldier22

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chiefjason

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ArmySoldier22

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Bearfoot

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chiefjason

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ArmySoldier22

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papa bear

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chiefjason

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papa bear

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