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Thread: Consideration of Companions' Concerns

  1. #1
    Regular Member
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    Sep 2011
    New Hampshire

    Consideration of Companions' Concerns

    I'm new on this forum and looking for some advice. I've CC'ed for several years with permits in my own state and two neighboring states (non-res).
    I came to this forum because I am going to be taking a trip to a state that does not reciprocally recognize any of my permits for CC, and we will be there for 4 days.
    The state DOES allow non-licensed OC, which started me thinking about bring my firearm and going OC for those 4 days.
    Now here's the problem. I will be traveling and dining with my mom and two sisters, and my sister's husbands. My mom and one sister are Quakers (pacifists) and definitely not into guns.
    In fact I have never discussed with them the fact that I CC, as it would probably just start an argument to no good purpose. As we live in different states, we don't see each other often enough for it to be a problem. Top it off with the fact the 4-day trip is a surprise birthday celebration for my mom, who is turning 90.
    So I thought I should email my sisters and ask if they would have a problem with me OC'ing for the trip, as I really don't want to just show up armed when I meet them at the lodging we're all staying at, and freak them out. But of course I know their answer will be "why would you want to ruin mom's birthday that way"?
    OTOH I will feel irresponsible and perhaps "naked" going unarmed in the particular city we will be visiting, especially with my own wife and 3 children with me, plus my sisters and mom etc.
    Then again, if I ask, maybe my sisters will surprise me and say, "Hey, by all means, go ahead and OC; we will all feel safer that way as we walk and drive around ______ town."
    Maybe someone else on this forum has dealt with this type of issue before? I guess I'm looking for advice and any aspect of this issue I haven't thought of.

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Mar 2010
    Quarryville, PA
    Welcome to OCDO! Stick around and you will learn a lot!!

    I think you should OC. The chance of needing your gun is 0% until it is 100%. It may be better to go armed and risk offending your family. They will thank you if something happens. I have OCed for four years without incident. There is nothing for your family to worry about related to OC. My mom was worried recently when we took a trip to PA because I decided to OC. She got the opportunity to see what happens when I carry on a daily basis. I think it changed her opinion a lot.

    I would recommend posting in the specific state forums of the states you will be visiting. That is the best place to get accurate information.

    No matter what you decide, let us know how it goes. Good luck!
    Last edited by thebigsd; 09-25-2011 at 08:00 PM.
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  3. #3
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Jan 2011
    Welcome. What tool is a better one for a pacifist? With a HG I can choose when to fight, I can choose not to fight. Unarmed, the 'other guy' is the one who decides if we fight. Simple logic.

    PS-IMO, don't ask ahead of time, just do it. They might not even notice. If you ask ahead, there's all this time to build up pointless drama. Act like it's no big deal. If anyone is 'ruining' the day it's the one whining and stomping their virtual feet over a non-issue (the gun isn't going to jump out of the holster, now, is it?)
    Last edited by Badger Johnson; 09-25-2011 at 11:45 PM.
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  4. #4
    Regular Member usmcmustang's Avatar
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    Sep 2011
    Las Vegas, NV & Southern Utah
    Which “problem” will eclipse the other? That’s the question.

    Will your OCing (having the ability to protect your family from unexpected but potentially real harm) out way your emotional dilemma of OCing and its potential result of family strife. You have to step up to that question and answer it for yourself. No amount of recommendations from others will satisfy the question.
    Last edited by usmcmustang; 09-26-2011 at 12:37 AM.

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Jan 2007
    North Chesterfield VA
    Welcome to OCDO.

    So your relatives are Quakers, who do not believe in being an aggressor. I've met Quakers who have instructed me in their notion of not offering resistance, but that does not seem to be a universal tenent of the religion as some others have indicared various situations in which they would intervene or resist being stomped into jelly. Knowing the relatives better than any of us, you are going to have to decide how to address the situation with them.

    But it appears that you are not a Quaker and do not hold the same beliefs as they do. How do you think they would feel if they thought they were imposing their beliefs on you and your family?

    As for your other sisters and brothers-in-law, since this is not their religious issues and they are (possibly) just expressing the "do not make waves" theory of family relations, tell them to stick their noses out of whatever is between your mother, your Quaker sister, and you. (You might try for some polite wording if you want, although I tend to favor the direct statement.)

    From my limited experience with Quakers they seem to recognize an obligation to protect the weak, and your desire to protect your family (including the Quaker contigent) seems to be your intent as opposed to going around shoving your gun under everybody's nose in order to get your own way. In other words, you will not draw or shoot unless provoked to the extreme and although armed will probably seek ways to avoid drawing and shooting until there are no other options left. (If I'm putting words in your mouth I apologize.) Would not your Quaker mother and sister see that imposing their beliefs on you and your family is antithetical and that you are in actuality no more aggressive than they are? Or are they the kind that deamonizes the object?

    Were it me (and I'm known to be opinionated about both personal beliefs and not taking crap from family) I would explain your beliefs regarding the obligation/duty to be prepared to protect your nuclear/extended family, be ready to agree not to protect the Quaker contingent if they insisted on being left out, and ready to go back home if they wanted to turn the issue into a weekend-long tirade against your beliefs.

    I'm advocating a reasoned discussion if the subject comes up. Let them lead the way. It will provide you an excellent opportunity to teach your own children not only how to deal with differeing points of view but about just how far you are willing to go to protect them. It will offer your mother and sister the opportunity to test their own convictions. In other words, this opportunity is so full of win-win that it is just amazing. Approach it from that perspective.

    Please come back and tell us how it turned out.

    And regardless of how your mother and sister may feel about it, remember that it is you and your wife/kids that are your primary concern.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

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  6. #6
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Apr 2010
    Lacey, Washington, USA
    Reminds me of when I told my dad I was married to a Mexican. I just hit him with it, and said take it or leave it. Until I broke the news he thought I was gay since I didn't have a girlfriend/wife for five years. He got over it, I hope your relatives get over it.
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
    "Evil often triumphs, but never conquers." Joseph Roux

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Dec 2009
    Not worth putting your family at risk. Those are your kids man, can you just imagine something happening to them because you didn't want to bring your gun in fear of hurting someone's feelings?

    Yes, I said "because you didn't want to bring your gun." Sure, the true person at fault is the mad man that comes into a resturant shooting, but these days you should be expecting that EVERYWHERE YOU GO. It happens almost monthly now somewhere in our country. To not carry a gun is irresponsible. Everywhere I go I am expecting an active shooter situation, maybe one day it will save my life, or maybe one day I will just be right at predicting my death. (I sit hear typing this disarmed at work)
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

  8. #8
    Activist Member carsontech's Avatar
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    Apr 2011
    Anderson, SC
    ICPete, the others in this thread did a nice analysis of your situation and gave their opinions. I don't have the depth of experience as some of the others in this thread, but I say not bringing your firearm so you don't "offend" anyone would do more harm than good.

    "If all printers were determined not to print anything till they were sure it would offend nobody, there would be very little printed." - Benjamin Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    Reminds me of when I told my dad I was married to a Mexican. I just hit him with it, and said take it or leave it. Until I broke the news he thought I was gay since I didn't have a girlfriend/wife for five years. He got over it, I hope your relatives get over it.
    Highlighted, right clicked, copied, pasted into notepad, and saved for later use...
    Last edited by carsontech; 09-27-2011 at 11:22 PM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Oct 2009
    Oklahoma, USA
    Last edited by okboomer; 09-27-2011 at 11:46 PM.
    cheers - okboomer
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  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Jan 2010
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    I agree with skidmark. Being a pacifist does not equate to being a doormat, or, for that matter, volunteering to be a victim.

    Check my sig line. To me, being a pacifist simply means choosing not be be the aggressor. Self-defense is not in my mind anti-pacifist. Only purists are opposed to violence under any circumstance, even defence of self and others. Think of it like you would purists of some Christian faiths who flagellate themselves with cat-o-nine-tails for their sins. Do the vast majority of us do that? Heck no! But we're not purists. We're still Christians, though.

    I'd ask your sisters and see what they think. If they're ok with it, go for it. If not, your risk of finding yourself in a bad situation during a single lunch is rare, but you'll have to make that decision.
    The 1st protects the 2nd, and the 2nd protects the 1st. GET THIS OR LOSE IT ALLl: 27-2=0. Our 2A is THE bellwether, and ain't none finer: Islamic Reality. Our Founding Fathers on Church and State. PC=ZERO.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
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    Sep 2011
    michigan city Indiana
    I feel that you should consider you family’s feelings but at what cost is up to you. I do not out of curtsey OC around my mother and in laws but I will CC. If we where to go to a state where I could only OC I would still carry because my wife’s and my life are worth more then hurt feelings.

  12. #12
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Jul 2011
    We're glad to have you as a member of the forum!

    Your first post is both interesting as well as thought-provoking, and has elicited a good deal of constructive dialogue.

    Since your CCL is not recognized in that state, and you are sure it is legal to open carry, I'd open carry.

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