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Thread: Paulding county - First encounter with LEO while OC'ing

  1. #1
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    Thumbs up Paulding county - First encounter with LEO while OC'ing

    So I started OC'ing middle of last week. I carried all weekend, everywhere I went. No issues at all. I'm quickly getting more comfortable with my concerns about the reactions of those around me. That's a good thing. Anyways, went Sunday to pick up a new Serpa Blackhawk for my Beretta. On the way home, a GSP ends up behind me. He follows me for a bit, I'm not hauling ass or breaking any laws. And.....he hits the blue lights. So I immediately whip into the next neighborhood on the right, roll down my window, keep my hands on the wheel and wait for him to approach. He approaches, asks me to roll down my back window, says he pulled me over because my window tint was too dark! He see's my old holster on the front passenger seat and asks me where I'm going and if I've been out shooting today. I tell him I'm headed home from picking up a new holster for my Beretta as I hand him my DL and GWCL. He asks if I have my weapon on me and I tell him "yes, it's on my right hip." He asks me to please step out of the vehicle, place my hands on the roof, that he would like to disarm me for both of our safety. I agree and step out, allow him to retrieve my weapon & inform him that it's locked and loaded. He comments that it's a really nice weapon and informs me that he's going to unload it and place it in the trunk of my vehicle. He then tells me to sit back in my car, and discusses with me, his procedure for testing window tint. He tells me if it register's 16 or higher with his meter, then he won't write a ticket, but if it's lower than 16, he's writing the ticket! So, he does the test and my tint registers at....15%. I asked him if he could give me the 1% and he said he would see what he could do. So, he steps away, comes back shortly and gives me a warning, with a 2-week time frame to get my tint taken care of and a warning to update my license and GWCL to my current address, as I had not updated them since moving 1.5 yrs ago. Then he tells me, "Once I leave, you can do what ever you need to do with your weapon. Have a nice afternoon Mr.XXX" Then he jumps in his ride and immediately left, acting as if he respected the fact that I was going to immediately lock and load and replace my Beretta in it's new holster, which I did. Now, I'm not very happy about being pulled over for window tint, seeing as how it's been on my car for the 3.5 yrs I've owned it and no one has ever said squat about it. However, that being said, I was very please with the way the trooper handled the situation, given that I was armed. He did not turn into a hot head, as one might expect. He was very professional about it and clearly understood the rights associated with my 2nd amendment and the laws of the state of GA. He remained professional and upon leaving, made it very clear that I was fine to go ahead and re-holster my weapon. I did not have a problem with being disarmed, as I was concerned with the trooper feeling comfortable around me and knowing that I was abiding the laws, while OC'ing my weapon. I firmly believe the only reason he gave me a warning.....was because I offered my GWCL up-front and allowed him to disarm me. That immediately "broke the ice" with him, and I believe, took a potentially dangerous traffic stop for him and turned it into a more comfortable interaction. Once he realized I was a responsible OC'ing citizen and very non-confrontational, he was able to address me accordingly, without having to go into a hot-headed mode if you will. I was nervous as hell, for sure, but I am very satisfied with the way the entire encounter went down and I commend TFC (don't know if I can say his name on here or not) for his professionalism and his clear understanding of my rights to OC. I can only hope that any future encounters with LEO's will go just as smooth as my first!

    Also, for anyone in the Paulding county area, I OC'd in Home Depot in Hiram and my local Kroger without any issues or sideways glances. Just trying to let folks near my area know when and where and the outcome, for anyone still working up the courage to start OC'ing themselves! Peace friends!

    I welcome positive feed-back and CONSTRUCTIVE Criticism. If you want to reply and talk mad smack about my choices and how I handled things.......don't. You'll only being wasting your own time!

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    Thanks for the reply NavyLCDR! Yes I realize I "consented" to a search of my trunk, but I also new that my trunk was completely empty. I wasn't aware that he could disarm me "for officer safety" without my permission, but it makes sense, and I didn't have a problem with it, as I wanted him to feel comfortable and thereby not escalate the situation unnecessarily. I agree it's not acceptable for him to remove my weapon, especially after seeing my GWCL, but seeing as how it was my 1st LEO encounter while OC'ing, I certainly didn't want to throw any attitude in the mix. Admittedly, I was nervous, and wanted to ease any unnecessary tension from the get go! Peace brother!

  3. #3
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR
    I find it very sad when Americans feel that police seizing their personal property, even after they have government verified proof that property is lawfully possessed and carried, is acceptable because they are polite when doing so.
    +1
    I like that the officer didn't go Canton on the OP, but after seeing the permit he had no reason to think this lawfully-armed citizen was dangerous. In fact, permit holders are in trouble with the law less than off-duty LEOs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy
    During a Terry/traffic stop the officer has the authority to temporarily disarm you "for officer safety" if they have reasonable cause to believe you are armed and dangerous.
    I expect police to ignore the conjunction, but you, sir?
    You know better.
    The officer had no reason to believe the OP was dangerous.
    Quote Originally Posted by MLK, Jr
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    Citizenship is a verb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Only one court, that I know of, has ever separated armed and dangerous. That was the Indiana Supreme Court, I believe. During a traffic stop the subject presented his license to the officer and informed him of a gun under the seat. The officer made him get out of the car, frisked him, and searched under the seat for the gun under the seat, "for officer safety" as allowed by Terry rules. He found a baggie of weed, if I remember. The court tossed it out saying that the subject gave no indication to the officer that he was dangerous due to his cooperation during the entire stop and notifying the cop of his license and the exact location of the gun.

    But that's the only case I know of that the courts have separated armed and dangerous from each other. That's why I just don't tell cops about my gun.
    It seems that according to most courts and all law enforcement, the 'and' really means 'and/or'. Another example would be from the Constitution, itself (...cruel and/or unusual punishment).

    Its very sad, in my opinion.

  5. #5
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    If you have to disarm why shouldn't he? Wouldn't you BOTH be safer? Not to mention that weird law or something that prevents SEIZURE. Any state that allows cops to disarm people is in violation of the 4th.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  6. #6
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    +1
    I like that the officer didn't go Canton on the OP, .
    Now that is hilarious...
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  7. #7
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal
    I like that the officer didn't go Canton on the OP
    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd
    Now that is hilarious.
    I verbed a noun, didn't I? LOL Sort of like 'going postal'.
    It does evoke a very clear image, though, doesn't it?

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    PX4Storm40:

    FACT: Under Georgia Law 16-11-129(a)..., Your Georgia Weapons Carry License is Valid anywhere State-wide, notwithstanding Your Current Address.

    FACT: No Provision under Georgia Law 16-11-129(a) Requires You to Update Your Address on Your Georgia Weapons Carry License.

    aadvark

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    Thumbs up

    Thanks aadvark! I researched that immediately following my encounter and found that to be the case!

  10. #10
    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Only one court, that I know of, has ever separated armed and dangerous.
    Check again....Check out State Vs Jones. And it is a GEORGIA case.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Yeah, I think I am going to call BS on this one. We have seen these one timers come along and post a ludicrous story and then disappear. Not even sure why the GWCL is relevant as it is not needed for carry in ones vehicle.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Officer "safety" = 'it's for the children.' Both are complete BS. If the cop doesn't feel safe, he should go hide in his car. Why not remove your tire iron, too? That could easily be a weapon. If a person has a CCW it means he has demonstrated to the state that he is "safe." And some room temperatured IQ cop who doesn't know the first thing about the handgun he is removing for "officer safety" kind of defeats the purpose now, doesn't it?
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  13. #13
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    pxstorm40:

    Thank you for starting a very interesting thread.

    I have a suggestion for you that will help others to enjoy your posts more; and that is I'd recommend that you utilize paragraphs in the text to make them more readable.

    By using paragraphs you also will be able to highlight certain key points for better emphasis on them.

    Respectfully,
    MilProGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by PX4Storm40 View Post
    I was very please with the way the trooper handled the situation, given that I was armed. He did not turn into a hot head, as one might expect. He was very professional about it and clearly understood the rights associated with my 2nd amendment and the laws of the state of GA.

    I welcome positive feed-back and CONSTRUCTIVE Criticism. If you want to reply and talk mad smack about my choices and how I handled things.......don't. You'll only being wasting your own time!
    You were hosed. He tricked you into searching your trunk. He also disarmed you in violation of terry. There is no excuse for what he did if things went down the way you say it did.

    In my 6 years as an LEO. I've never disarmed anyone unless they met the armed AND dangerous requirement.

    It's sad that so many people make excuses for LEO's who violate your rights.

    Also, if it was your vehicle, you weren't carrying under the authority of a GWL as you do not need a license to carry a handgun in your own personal vehicle.

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    I don't know how I feel about this..

    I have been stopped many times and notified the officer that I did have a firearm in the vehicle (or on me) and did have a permit (it was concealed) Not one of them ever asked me to get out of the vehicle or surrender my firearm. Several local and state troopers mind you. I carry with one in the chamber and safety off (de-cocked) So I would not feel comfortable letting someone else handle, much less de-holster and rack the slide back on my Beretta. I also see no reason for them to place it in the trunk. He probably thought you were a drug dealer because your windows were tinted

    Also "my rear windows do not roll down, they are broken" I'm not aware what that "16" reading is, it was my understanding Ga law is 32 +-3% for window tint. When I had a car with "illegal" tint I just rolled all the windows down that would go all the way, and rolled all the windows up that would not go all the way down. Most sensors hang on the window to read the % if there is nothing to hang them on there is no way of testing them.

  16. #16
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    I once had a cop "freak out" when he saw my empty holster. Never again will I consent to a search (he said he had probably cause to search. I should have told him if he has probably cause, it would be no problem to get a warrant).
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  17. #17
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    While, in the last 40+ years I have OC'd, I have never been asked to disarm, I would be of the opinion that a polite:

    Officer, a properly holstered firearm is a danger to no-one, and unholstered firearm is a danger to everyone. So for your safety, my safety and the general public's safety, let's just leave my forearm in it's holster where it can hurt no-one at all.

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