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ATF says 'no' to pot users...bluntly

Dave Workman

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May 23, 2007
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ATF letter to FFLs makes it clear: No guns for pot users

As if it didn’t have enough trouble, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has opened a new can of worms with a Sept. 21 letter to Federal Firearms Licensees explaining that medical marijuana users are prohibited from buying or even possessing firearms or ammunition.

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-...-to-ffls-makes-it-clear-no-guns-for-pot-users
 

HandyHamlet

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Nov 17, 2010
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Terra, Sol
Note to self:

Obama ignores campaign promise to recognize state's rights over Federal law.

update:

ATF has the power to supersede state's rights and state law.
 

Aknazer

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So they enforce laws when they shouldn't, and ignore laws when they should pay attention. Got it.
 

Dreamer

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This recent BATFE ruling poses an interesting predicament in Oregon. Teh OR Supreme Court recently ruled that OR CC permit holders who ALSO have medical marijuana cards can NOT have their CC permits pulled, and that having a medeical marijuana card poses no impediment to getting or keeping a CC permit...

http://volokh.com/2011/05/19/oregon...-ban-on-gun-possession-by-illegal-drug-users/

The BATFE is out of control. Are they going to make the same ruling for other prescription drugs that are psychoactive? What about Prozac, Xanax, or Lithium? What about Adderall or Ritalin? What about prescription opiates for chronic pain like Vicodin, Oxycodone, Codeine?

Different rules for different people--just more "class warfare" from Washington...


So just to make sure I've got this right, let me re-cap the BATFE's new policy:

If you use a legally-prescribed drug that they don't like, you can't buy, own, or possess a firearm.

But if you are SELLING tons of ILLEGAL drugs, killing dozens of LEOs and politicians and hundreds of innocent citizensin two nations, and engaged in large-scale international organized criminal enterprises, the BATFE actually SUPPLIES you with shipping containers full of firearms, illegally, in violation of US and Inernational law?

OK, I get it. Now I think we all know who (and where) the REAL criminals are in the USA...
 
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Kirbinator

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Middle of the map, Alabama
The BATFE is out of control. Are they going to make the same ruling for other prescription drugs that are psychoactive? What about Prozac, Xanax, or Lithium? What about Adderall or Ritalin? What about prescription opiates for chronic pain like Vicodin, Oxycodone, Codeine?

The FAA will not allow someone to fly (be a pilot) or learn to fly if that person is lawfully prescribed any ADHD medication, regardless if the substance is a stimulant or not.
 

KBCraig

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Are they going to make the same ruling for other prescription drugs that are psychoactive? What about Prozac, Xanax, or Lithium? What about Adderall or Ritalin? What about prescription opiates for chronic pain like Vicodin, Oxycodone, Codeine?
They have created a new special class for marijuana.

Yes, it has long been illegal to possess any firearm or ammunition while "an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana, or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance". Note the wording: "....or addicted to .... any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance".

Addiction to a controlled substance is not necessarily illegal. Millions of Americans are addicted to lawfully prescribed controlled substances. It is exactly as illegal --no more, no less-- for them to possess any firearm or ammunition, as it is for the crack junky in the back alley. Or, the medical marijuana patient who is abiding by state law.

Only in the case of medical marijuana has the ATF decided to remind FFLs that they must not transfer any firearms or ammunition to someone they "reasonably believe" to be in possession of a medical marijuana card, no matter how they answer Question 12.e. on Form 4473, and regardless of any evidence, knowledge, or even "reasonable belief" about the persons' use, or lack thereof, of any controlled substance.

To treat it equally, they would have to refuse sales to anyone they reasonably believe to be a chronic pain patient, pulmonary patient, or other "addict" to controlled substances.
 
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Aknazer

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California
I'm a wee bit conflicted on this entire issue. Booze and guns do not mix, legally prescribed medication and guns do mix.

It all depends on the effects on the body imo. One to three drinks with dinner isn't something that should be illegal and likewise someone shouldn't be denied the ability to defend theirself just because they have taken a drug. Now things that cause severe changes in one's perception (such as getting trashed or hallucinations) I can understand.
 

Dreamer

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The FAA will not allow someone to fly (be a pilot) or learn to fly if that person is lawfully prescribed any ADHD medication, regardless if the substance is a stimulant or not.

Which is sort of ironic, considering that the modern Methamphetamine derivatives that Ritalin is based on was developed by the Nazi's SPECIFICALLY for pilots during WWII, to make them more aggressive, and to keep them awake and alert for long missions...
 

since9

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The FAA will not allow someone to fly (be a pilot) or learn to fly if that person is lawfully prescribed any ADHD medication, regardless if the substance is a stimulant or not.

There are a great many medications that'll ground you, but only some are go/no-go items. For many of them, whether or not it's a grounding item depends on the medical history of the patient. See here.
 

Jack House

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I80, USA
It all depends on the effects on the body imo. One to three drinks with dinner isn't something that should be illegal and likewise someone shouldn't be denied the ability to defend theirself just because they have taken a drug. Now things that cause severe changes in one's perception (such as getting trashed or hallucinations) I can understand.
I agree, except with the part where you seem to suggest a drink limit. I can have 6 beers and walk away without so much as a buzz. Others can have one or two and be drunk. All depends on the person.
 

Aknazer

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I agree, except with the part where you seem to suggest a drink limit. I can have 6 beers and walk away without so much as a buzz. Others can have one or two and be drunk. All depends on the person.

Oh I wasn't meaning to suggest a drink limit (besides that would be extremely hard to enforce). Personally 1-3 drinks would be my limit because any more than that and I wouldn't want to carry due to the issue of all bars making their drinks differently and thus not being able to reliably say how more drinks will affect me (and I generally don't drink beer as every beer I've tried I've thought it tasted like pee). That and if I have more than three drinks that usually means I'm trying to get drunk; whether I succeed or not is a different story.

Another reason why I said 1-3 is because in dealing with the law if you aren't specific then you run into issues with people (both cops and citizens) trying to abuse the law. The 1-3 can be roughly equated to a .08 alcohol level. Of course this amount of alcohol doesn't mean that one is a danger and a cop should exercise discretion, but again it gives a starting point to protect both cops and citizens.
 

MilProGuy

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Mississippi
I'm a wee bit conflicted on this entire issue. Booze and guns do not mix, legally prescribed medication and guns do mix.

I'm more than a wee bit conflicted about this issue and I agree with your last comment.

Marijuana is going to have the same reaction on a person's mind and central nervous system regardless of whether they buy it illegally from some dope dealer off the street or if they have a "prescription" for it and procure it another way.

It is still a controlled substance either way.
 

Daylen

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Aug 29, 2010
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America
I'm more than a wee bit conflicted about this issue and I agree with your last comment.

Marijuana is going to have the same reaction on a person's mind and central nervous system regardless of whether they buy it illegally from some dope dealer off the street or if they have a "prescription" for it and procure it another way.

It is still a controlled substance either way.

It is still unconstitutional and thus illegal for ATF to make a ruling of this sort, and for the law which allows this ruling to exist.
 

since9

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So just to make sure I've got this right, let me re-cap the BATFE's new policy:

If you use a legally-prescribed drug that they don't like, you can't buy, own, or possess a firearm.

But if you are SELLING tons of ILLEGAL drugs, killing dozens of LEOs and politicians and hundreds of innocent citizensin two nations, and engaged in large-scale international organized criminal enterprises, the BATFE actually SUPPLIES you with shipping containers full of firearms, illegally, in violation of US and Inernational law?

Yep. I'd say that's a fairly accurate re-cap, Dreamer.
 

Redbaron007

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Sep 10, 2011
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The BATF are a little too big for their britches!

I have some concerns regarding this; maybe more confusion, than concerns.

Is MJ federally legal anywhere in the US? If not, how do they know if you use it. Is it a new question to ask? Are you suppose to incriminate yourself?
 

rodbender

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Jun 23, 2008
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Navasota, Texas, USA
The BATFE is out of control. Are they going to make the same ruling for other prescription drugs that are psychoactive? What about Prozac, Xanax, or Lithium? What about Adderall or Ritalin? What about prescription opiates for chronic pain like Vicodin, Oxycodone, Codeine?

Hell, if they thought they could get by with it they would say the same about aspirin or tylenol.
 

RetiredOC

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Dec 21, 2009
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Where in the constitution does the BATF have the authority to deny the 2nd Amendment rights people were born with? Where in the constitution is the ATF even at? Isn't there something that says "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
I don't get it.
 

GLOCK21GB

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Apr 22, 2009
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4,347
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Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
This recent BATFE ruling poses an interesting predicament in Oregon. Teh OR Supreme Court recently ruled that OR CC permit holders who ALSO have medical marijuana cards can NOT have their CC permits pulled, and that having a medeical marijuana card poses no impediment to getting or keeping a CC permit...

http://volokh.com/2011/05/19/oregon...-ban-on-gun-possession-by-illegal-drug-users/

The BATFE is out of control. Are they going to make the same ruling for other prescription drugs that are psychoactive? What about Prozac, Xanax, or Lithium? What about Adderall or Ritalin? What about prescription opiates for chronic pain like Vicodin, Oxycodone, Codeine?

Different rules for different people--just more "class warfare" from Washington...


So just to make sure I've got this right, let me re-cap the BATFE's new policy:

If you use a legally-prescribed drug that they don't like, you can't buy, own, or possess a firearm.

But if you are SELLING tons of ILLEGAL drugs, killing dozens of LEOs and politicians and hundreds of innocent citizensin two nations, and engaged in large-scale international organized criminal enterprises, the BATFE actually SUPPLIES you with shipping containers full of firearms, illegally, in violation of US and Inernational law?

OK, I get it. Now I think we all know who (and where) the REAL criminals are in the USA...

now you understand why we need a RESET in this country ?
 
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