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Thread: City of Elkhorn reviewing concealed carry ban 9/29 5:30 pm

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    City of Elkhorn reviewing concealed carry ban 9/29 5:30 pm

    http://www.cityofelkhorn.org/Agendas...%209-29-11.pdf

    I am going to try to make it there.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    This is what I wrote to the committee chair:

    Julie,

    I noticed that there is a proposed concealed carry ban on the agenda for tomorrow (9/29).


    I plan on attending the meeting. I was wondering if there is a proposed ordinance I can see before then?


    Many municipalities have considered a ban on firearms in government buildings. As a person who usually carries, I would urge the city to not post their buildings.


    Here are some points:


    1. Laws only affect the law abiding. If you post, the only people who it will stop from carrying into the building are people like me. The people who you worry about, bent on mayhem, will carry in violation of the law/sign.
    2. If the city posts, they will NOT be granted the immunity as stated in 175.60(21)(b) "A person that does not prohibit an individual from carrying a concealed weapon on property that the person owns or occupies is immune from any liability arising from its decision". So, let's say Elkhorn posts, someone come in and commits a crime with a handgun. You would not be immune. If, on the other hand, you DO NOT post and someone comes in to do harm with a firearm, you would be immune.
    3. Making me store my gun in my car while I'm in the government building will just expose it to theft. If it is secure in my holster, someone can't steal it.
    4. The state law already precludes me and other law abiding people (law breakers will carry wherever they want) from carrying INSIDE the police department and inside a court room.
    5. If you do NOT post, the only people who will be carrying inside government buildings would be people who have gone through the training and background check to qualify for a permit from the state of WI.


    Here is a story from the Village of Sturtevant: http://www.wisn.com/news/29258306/detail.html


    Notice the comments from the Chief of Police.


    As some side notes, current city ordinances will need to be fixed by 11/1 to be brought into compliance with state preemption laws 66.0409.


    Specifically, 9.02, 9.025, 9.045 (a,b,e,f,i,k), 19.01.11(a).


    If you wish, I can give you the specifics as to what parts of each of those are not compliant.


    Thanks for your attention.

    --

    Paul L Fisher

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    After Further Review

    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    http://www.cityofelkhorn.org/Agendas...%209-29-11.pdf

    I am going to try to make it there.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODwsV...eature=related

    Maybe you need somehow copy this and enter this into the meeting? How soon we forget. just a though

    and you could also run for office. "If you can't bet them... join them"

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Just got back. They were purely having a discussion to see where to go. They decided to go to the full council to get direction as to which way to go. The Chief of Police said there were good things for posting and bad things for posting. So.... 10/3 6:00 pm the full council will discuss it.

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    I have read a lot of these threads lately about localities banning concealed carry. Did your new CC not come with pre-emption? If not, is there a plan to push hard for it in the upcoming legislative session?
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    I have read a lot of these threads lately about localities banning concealed carry. Did your new CC not come with pre-emption? If not, is there a plan to push hard for it in the upcoming legislative session?
    We do have preemption (66.0409), but Act 35 said anyone can post a sign (that includes municipalities). That sign must be at least 5x7 (who is going to see something that small?) though.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    I have read a lot of these threads lately about localities banning concealed carry. Did your new CC not come with pre-emption? If not, is there a plan to push hard for it in the upcoming legislative session?
    Here is Firearms Preemption with 2011 Act 35 emendations noted.

    https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/sta...tes/66/IV/0409

    As before, Wisconsin Firearms Preemption is ineffectual.

  8. #8
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    There were a total of 7 people in the room. The Chief of Police, the clerk, 4 members of the committee, myself and one other interested citizen.

    The committee went through their other agenda items and then started the discussion on posting. I was allowed to say my part, they asked the other citizen what she was there for.

    She said she had read in the Janesville Gazette an article stating that Whitewater had passed an ordinance requiring that private businesses post a 'no guns allowed' sign and that Elkhorn was considering it. I said 'they can't do that'. The Chief of Police nodded in agreement. She then said that if the city of Elkhorn passes an ordinance that she has to allow people with guns in her store she would close the store and move out of Elkhorn. I turned towards her and said 'Maam, all you have to do is post a sign in your door that says 'no firearms' and I will guarantee I will never come in'. She said 'Good'.

    Some people just don't understand.

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    Regular Member Plankton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheller View Post
    She actually understands very well, she does not want gun toters in her store.
    Actually, she doesn't want "LEGAL" gun toters in her store. She can't stop the "other" kind with her little paper sign.
    Liberty or death. We're sorry, there are no other options available at this time..........
    "Safety is the new Liberty, and recklessness is the new Freedom, and alcoholism is the new Doug Huffman."

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheller View Post
    She actually understands very well, she does not want gun toters in her store.
    The part I was talking about understanding was that she actually thought that the city could force her to accept or deny gun carriers.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheller View Post
    Then I would say with her little paper sign she will not have to worry about you.
    Even if Paul was allowed in her store, she still wouldn't have to worry about him. What's your point?
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  12. #12
    Regular Member Plankton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheller View Post
    Then I would say with her little paper sign she will not have to worry about you.
    Correct. But she will have to worry about the robber, rapist and murderer, who will NOT care about her little paper sign. You know, those ILLEGAL gun toters?
    Liberty or death. We're sorry, there are no other options available at this time..........
    "Safety is the new Liberty, and recklessness is the new Freedom, and alcoholism is the new Doug Huffman."

  13. #13
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheller View Post
    If you would actually pay attention for once, you will observe I was responding to a Plankton post and not PPFisher.
    If you pay attention logables, you'll realize this is an open forum and I can reply to any post I so choose.

    In addition, you are still referencing the original post.
    Last edited by protias; 10-01-2011 at 04:38 PM.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  14. #14
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheller View Post
    You are clueless as usual, nice try at baiting though.
    Then oh great sheller, please explain the error of my ways...
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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