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Thread: No more OC till November 18

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    No more OC till November 18

    Just a reminder for the coming legislative year. Because of P4P, starting on October 1 and going through November 18, I and many like myself, will not be able to OC. Since I farm, I can carry concealed or open without a permit, but during muzzle loading and bow season, I can't carry at all....Except on Sunday of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Just a reminder for the coming legislative year. Because of P4P, starting on October 1 and going through November 18, I and many like myself, will not be able to OC. Since I farm, I can carry concealed or open without a permit, but during muzzle loading and bow season, I can't carry at all....Except on Sunday of course.
    What is P4P, please explain.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesy View Post
    What is P4P, please explain.
    Perks for Permits.

    The bow/ML hunting is a good example. I can't carry but someone who took a hunter safety class or CHP class (Which I have taken BTW)and paid fifty bucks for a permit (Which I won't) is far less likely to shoot a Deer than someone who won't get a permit. There must be some logic there, I just missed it.

    Same for carry in WMA's and National forest.

    I cannot carry in the General Assembly building even though I can bypass the metal detectors.

    The Code is full of P4P that the gun lobby often pushes because it's easier to pass.

    Do a search here. There are plenty of rants to read
    Last edited by peter nap; 09-28-2011 at 04:34 PM.

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    P4P is "perks for permittees". It is the approach that many gun "rights" organizations have used to establish in the minds of the American public that guns are only good in the hands of licensees who have paid some arbitrary fee to a government, have undergone some undergone some arbitrary training and established a "good guy" status by undergoing a background check (which only would catch what you didn't get away with and has no bearing on what crime you might commit after getting said license). In trade for the establishment that guns are only okay in the hands of these licensees the licensees enjoy certain "perks" regarding how and when they may carry a firearm that the remainder of the populace (which thinks that the right to arms is a human right) is not privy to.

    *Peter Nap it looks like you and I were responding at the same time. Your post wasn't there when I hit "reply".
    Last edited by jmelvin; 09-28-2011 at 04:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesy View Post
    What is P4P, please explain.
    'Perks for Permits'. Basically when the legislature adds 'incentives' for people who have a concealed carry permit, allowing them to do things that lawful Open Carriers are not permitted to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Just a reminder for the coming legislative year. Because of P4P, starting on October 1 and going through November 18, I and many like myself, will not be able to OC. Since I farm, I can carry concealed or open without a permit, but during muzzle loading and bow season, I can't carry at all....Except on Sunday of course.
    Peter am I correct in thnking that it would be legal for you to carry openly without a CHP on your own property, provided you weren't hunting with a muzzle loader or bow? This would only seem to have any effect if you were also carrying a muzzleloader or bow with the intent to hunt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Except on Sunday of course.

    That will change next year....or by 2013 for sure!

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    Regular Member The Wolfhound's Avatar
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    Aw why?

    Why would you want to take away the ONE day Peter can carry his current BFR? LOL
    Last edited by The Wolfhound; 09-28-2011 at 06:01 PM.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Yeah it would but I will have.a bow or ml 6 days a week until rifle season starts

    Sent from my LG-P509 using Tapatalk

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    I AM CONFUSED..............................

    So people without CHP'S cannot carry?

    Like to the store??

    Or are we talking about hunting?




    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocholsteroc View Post
    I AM CONFUSED..............................

    So people without CHP'S cannot carry?

    Like to the store??

    Or are we talking about hunting?




    I'm talking about hunting...which I'll be doing eight hours a day, 6 days a week until the end of February.
    That means I can't carry on my own farm until rifle season starts.

    Now to show how stupid that law is, since the farm is my own place of business, I can conceal without a permit but.....if I don't have the permit I don't need, I can't carry at all while I have a bow....which is constantly.

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I'm talking about hunting...which I'll be doing eight hours a day, 6 days a week until the end of February.
    That means I can't carry on my own farm until rifle season starts.

    Now to show how stupid that law is, since the farm is my own place of business, I can conceal without a permit but.....if I don't have the permit I don't need, I can't carry at all while I have a bow....which is constantly.
    Could you have a gun bearer? Have someone carry an extra gun for you, this person wouldn't be hunting just walking/sitting with you.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I'm talking about hunting...which I'll be doing eight hours a day, 6 days a week until the end of February.
    That means I can't carry on my own farm until rifle season starts.

    Now to show how stupid that law is, since the farm is my own place of business, I can conceal without a permit but.....if I don't have the permit I don't need, I can't carry at all while I have a bow....which is constantly.
    I have a cross-bow and want to hunt pigs... oh, to make sure my response is on topic, I can open carry while hunting in VA. Except on Sunday when I can open carry but can't hunt wild hogs, except maybe in church with good and sufficient reason.
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

    excerpt By Marko Kloos (http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/?s=major+caudill)

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuc65 View Post
    I have a cross-bow and want to hunt pigs... oh, to make sure my response is on topic, I can open carry while hunting in VA. Except on Sunday when I can open carry but can't hunt wild hogs, except maybe in church with good and sufficient reason.
    Welllll, all sharp stick poking aside, You can OC while hunting pigs because there is not only no archery season for pig hunting, there is no season at all. They are a non game species and can be hunted anytime.

    The only problem is, there are no pigs to hunt in Va except in the Dismal swamp which is off limits I believe...and farm yards.
    That is unless you're talking about real ugly wimmin!

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    Activist Member carsontech's Avatar
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    I didn't hear about these hunting regulations in VA, until now.... I must admit, my heart rate rose and I became agitated that something like this existed, and I don't even live in VA! See the following, for those that want to know what Pete Nap is talking about:

    "Legal Methods and Restrictions During Archery Deer Seasons
    Special restrictions may apply during this season. See Legal Use of Firearms and Archery Equipment and Local Firearms Ordinances for details.

    • Archery tackle (including crossbows) only.
    • Broadhead widths must be at least 7/8- inch wide or expand upon impact to 7/8-inch.
    • Bows must be capable of propelling a broadhead arrow at least 125 yards.
    • It is unlawful to use explosive head arrows or arrows to which any drug, chemical, or toxic substance has been added.
    • It is unlawful to use dogs, except that dogs may be used to track wounded or dead deer (see Hunting with Dogs)
    • It is unlawful to have a firearm in possession except that a muzzleloading firearm, as defined in the muzzleloader deer seasons section, may also be in possession when and where there is an overlap with a muzzleloading deer season where deer hunting with a rifle or muzzleloading firearm is permitted."


    "Legal Methods and Restrictions During Muzzleloader Deer Seasons
    Special restrictions may apply during this season. See Legal Use of Firearms and Archery Equipment and Local Firearms Ordinances for details.

    • Only muzzleloading firearms, .45 caliber or larger, loaded from the muzzle of the gun.
    • Muzzleloading firearms must be single shot, capable of firing only a single bullet or saboted bullet (.38 caliber or larger).
    • Flintlock, percussion, or electronic ignitions are permitted.
    • Unlawful to have in immediate possession any firearm other than a muzzleloading firearm while hunting with a muzzleloader (see exception for valid concealed handgun permit holders).
    • Unlawful to use muzzleloading pistols.
    • Must use at least 50 grains of black powder or black powder equivalent.
    • Smokeless powder is allowed in muzzleloading firearms designed for it. Never use smokeless powder of any type, in any quantity, in a muzzleloading firearm that is not specifically designed for it.
    • Scopes are permitted.
    • For the purposes of transportation in a vehicle, muzzleloading firearms are considered "unloaded" when all powder has been removed from the flashpan, or the percussion cap, primer, or battery has been removed from the firearm. For complete safety, a muzzleloader should be emptied by shooting into soft ground.
    • Unlawful to hunt deer with dogs, except that dogs may be used to track wounded or dead deer (see Hunting with Dogs)
    • It is lawful to carry archery tackle when and where there is an overlap with a deer archery and muzzleloading season."


    Source:
    http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/hunting...tions/deer.asp


    Here is the verbiage for the special privliges Concealed Handgun Permit Holders have :

    "Valid Concealed Handgun Permit Holders May:
    • Possess a concealed handgun during archery seasons, muzzleloader seasons, and general firearms seasons.
    • Possess a concealed handgun on National Forest and Department lands during the closed season.
    • Possess and transport a loaded concealed handgun in or on any vehicle on National Forest and Department lands.
    • Possess a concealed handgun while using dogs for tracking wounded or dead bear or deer but no game may be taken.
    "


    Source:
    http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/hunting....asp#legal-use
    Last edited by carsontech; 09-28-2011 at 08:40 PM.

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    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Welllll, all sharp stick poking aside, You can OC while hunting pigs because there is not only no archery season for pig hunting, there is no season at all. They are a non game species and can be hunted anytime.

    The only problem is, there are no pigs to hunt in Va except in the Dismal swamp which is off limits I believe...and farm yards.
    That is unless you're talking about real ugly wimmin!
    From http://www.dcr.virginia.gov/state_parks/hunting.shtml it seems regulated wrt rifle... at least in the state_parks.

    False Cape State Park Deer and Feral Hog Lottery Hunt

    This hunt is run in conjunction with the Back Bay National Wildlife Refuge. The legal harvest (using shotguns) applies to deer and feral hogs. Apply online at www.vaquotahunts.com; by phone at 1-877-VAHUNTS, Monday through Friday, 9:30 a.m. 4:30 p.m., EST; or by completing a paper application available online at www.dgif.virginia.gov or found in the Virginia Game and Inland Fisheries Hunting publication. There is an application fee.
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

    excerpt By Marko Kloos (http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/?s=major+caudill)

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    Regular Member tcmech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Welllll, all sharp stick poking aside, You can OC while hunting pigs because there is not only no archery season for pig hunting, there is no season at all. They are a non game species and can be hunted anytime.

    The only problem is, there are no pigs to hunt in Va except in the Dismal swamp which is off limits I believe...and farm yards.
    (edited)
    Back Bay NWR and False Cape State Park have a feral pig hunt every year.
    If Obama is the answer; how stupid was the question?

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuc65 View Post
    From http://www.dcr.virginia.gov/state_parks/hunting.shtml it seems regulated wrt rifle... at least in the state_parks.

    False Cape State Park Deer and Feral Hog Lottery Hunt

    This hunt is run in conjunction with the Back Bay National Wildlife Refuge. The legal harvest (using shotguns) applies to deer and feral hogs. Apply online at www.vaquotahunts.com; by phone at 1-877-VAHUNTS, Monday through Friday, 9:30 a.m. 4:30 p.m., EST; or by completing a paper application available online at www.dgif.virginia.gov or found in the Virginia Game and Inland Fisheries Hunting publication. There is an application fee.
    It's like the Sitka Deer hunt, special area. It's the area you get a permit for. Hogs are not regulated and I wish we had some to hunt.

    Go to Georgia for good hog hunting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    It's like the Sitka Deer hunt, special area. It's the area you get a permit for. Hogs are not regulated and I wish we had some to hunt.

    Go to Georgia for good hog hunting.
    From all these hog shows on tv, it seems the hogs are spreading so quickly down there they are becoming a major problem.

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    Regular Member The Wolfhound's Avatar
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    Just give 'em time.....

    The hogs will spread around here too. Wild hogs and Coyotes? In Virginia? 40 years ago who would have imagined it?

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wolfhound View Post
    The hogs will spread around here too. Wild hogs and Coyotes? In Virginia? 40 years ago who would have imagined it?
    Both are similiar to herpes as in you'll never get rid of them.
    I know there are Feral pigs in Culpeper and we have plenty of coyotes around here.
    Louisa Co is now allowing .22 centerfire rifles for yotes.
    I've taken 3 yotes from my rear deck.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    It's Sunday and I'm out of the woods...well, not really, but I'm not hunting so I can carry today.

    Total sightings for yesterday, one good sized Doe, one small Doe, one medium size Bear and three Wood Ducks.

    All were allowed to peacefully go about their business except the good size Doe. It's in the freezer

    I did go to the range yesterday at lunchtime to try out some long range loads for my Super Blackhawk. Pretty impressive results at
    100 yards which is the practical limit I can shoot a handgun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    It's Sunday and I'm out of the woods...well, not really, but I'm not hunting so I can carry today.

    Total sightings for yesterday, one good sized Doe, one small Doe, one medium size Bear and three Wood Ducks.

    All were allowed to peacefully go about their business except the good size Doe. It's in the freezer

    I did go to the range yesterday at lunchtime to try out some long range loads for my Super Blackhawk. Pretty impressive results at
    100 yards which is the practical limit I can shoot a handgun.



    100 yds with a handgun?! I bow in your general direction, Sir. I am happy to hit paper at 50yds!

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbuff View Post
    [/B]


    100 yds with a handgun?! I bow in your general direction, Sir. I am happy to hit paper at 50yds!
    Quick search on youtube you will find these tests. You can also find 200+ yards with handguns. It's just target not hunting.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

  25. #25
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbuff View Post
    [/B]


    100 yds with a handgun?! I bow in your general direction, Sir. I am happy to hit paper at 50yds!
    It depends on the gun with me Sbuff and this is off a rest. My Contenders all handle long range and three of my Super Blackhawks and my 45/70 BFR (I sold the 45lc/410 and it wasn't all that accurate).

    Other than those guns, I'm at 50 yards or less.

    I am kinda happy with this load though. One group I shot actually came close to outdoing a group on the same target I'd just shot with my 270 Weatherby.

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