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Thread: forgot my ccw permit at home

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    forgot my ccw permit at home

    today i forgot my permit at home realized it when i went into basspro at the checkout. what would of happened if i were pulled over or stopped and didnt have my permit on me while carry.

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    Regular Member carry for myself's Avatar
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    nothing good. most states do not have an "active" list of permit holders, seeing as alot of different cities and municipalities issue them its hard to cross reference. 99% of the time the only evidence the LEO has that you are not illegally concealing a weapon is the physical permit that you give him. odds are one of two things will happen if stopped without your permit. seeing as its not a DL and they cannot just check the computer he will most likely arrest you. untill you can prove without a doubt that you do infact have a permit. other thing that could happen is he will confiscate your weapon, charge you with concealing an illegal weapon and summons you to court. at which time you MAY be given a chance by the judge to produce said permit or face the charge. the third is he does the last stated option, but the judge revokes your permit for failing to carry it on your person and carrying a weapon anyway.

    best thing to do in this situation is go STRAIGHT to OC. *if your in a state that allows OC without a permit* OR go straight to your car , unload, clear and store your weapon in the trunk untill you get home.

    i had the same thing happen to me a few weeks ago while running up the 7-11 for a soda at 1am. i was about 1/2 way there when i went to check how much mula i had in the wallet and realised the wallet was not in my pocket. i slamed the brakes, turned around and rushed home to get it seeing as my permit was in it, and in my waistband was my glock 32. scared the daylights out of me but im sure now i wont do it again :-)
    i would rather run out of blood, breath and life. and die fighting. than run out of ammo , and die with my pants down -Tom Scantas

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    thanks for the info. yeah i dont think i will do it agian. thats a scary thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by high angle120 View Post
    today i forgot my permit at home realized it when i went into basspro at the checkout. what would of happened if i were pulled over or stopped and didnt have my permit on me while carry.
    More or less nothing. Because the information is in the Missouri MULES system (law enforcement database) any officer could have confirmed you had it and that it was not revoked etc.

    There is a requirement to have it with you when carrying, however I do not recall any penalty for failing to have the card, kind of a do it but if you forget you are not going to b in huge trouble and that is because it is tied into the department of revenue database for identification cards and drivers licenses so they can always verify it anyway.

    This can be a huge problem in other states, it is not wise to give them a reason to get out of shape over so do carry it, but as long as you are in state you are not likely going to get more than an ear full from an officer.

    Take note, there is no duty to inform here unless asked so unless you are doing something you shouldn't, there is very little reason for it to come up at all.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    Quote Originally Posted by high angle120 View Post
    today i forgot my permit at home realized it when i went into basspro at the checkout. what would of happened if i were pulled over or stopped and didnt have my permit on me while carry.
    And to add to what LMTD posted car carry without a permit is perfectly legal so no sweat there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carry for myself View Post
    best thing to do in this situation is go STRAIGHT to OC. *if your in a state that allows OC without a permit* OR go straight to your car , unload, clear and store your weapon in the trunk untill you get home.
    This part is not required in Mo. We can CCW in car all we want , permit or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Festus_Hagen View Post
    This part is not required in Mo. We can CCW in car all we want , permit or not.
    And this is a very good thing!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by carry for myself View Post
    nothing good. most states do not have an "active" list of permit holders, seeing as alot of different cities and municipalities issue them its hard to cross reference. 99% of the time the only evidence the LEO has that you are not illegally concealing a weapon is the physical permit that you give him. odds are one of two things will happen if stopped without your permit. seeing as its not a DL and they cannot just check the computer he will most likely arrest you.
    I see that you are from Maine and might have wandered on this board by accident, but get your facts straight before posting.

    In MO there is a $35 fine for concealed carry while not in possession of your permit. It is NOT considered a criminal offense, they will not arrest you until you can prove it etc.

    It is clearly outlined in Missouri Revised Statues Chapter 571
    Weapons Offenses Section 571.121.

    You can read it here.

    http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5710000121.HTM

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Technically, you do not have to prove anything. MULES is your proof.
    Yes sir. If you are driving your own car, before the LEO every steps out of his vehicle, he will know whether or not you have your CCW, if you have any outstanding warrants, if you are a know offender of anything, etc.

    The main issue arises if I am walking down the road, I get stopped for whatever reason, the officer notices my firearm because I am printing, I don't have any ID on me at all etc. If all of those circumstances are met, I might have an issue, but this is a lot of circumstances that have to go perfectly wrong before the average concealed carrier is going to have a problem.

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    My permit is through Florida I live in Missouri will it still shot on the Leo computer?

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    Quote Originally Posted by high angle120 View Post
    My permit is through Florida I live in Missouri will it still shot on the Leo computer?
    No they won't by default. There is no national registry of CC permit holders (or not at least that we know about.) It can certainly be verified with FL though. And, they've had 6 or so years to get that piece down, so I suspect it's in place. That's one of the upside of getting a license from the state you live in (esp. if it's MO). The other is that you're exempt from the federal GFSZ law.

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    at qt in st chales. went to check out and no wallet. doesnt matter cause i was oc'ing
    Constantly choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by high angle120 View Post
    My permit is through Florida I live in Missouri will it still shot on the Leo computer?
    I have Utah's and was wondering this as well. I might call up the Sheriff and ask.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoShade View Post
    I have Utah's and was wondering this as well. I might call up the Sheriff and ask.
    Be very careful with info you receive from police officers or the sheriff's office they do not always tell the truth, especially when it pertains to open carry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HYRYSC View Post
    I see that you are from Maine and might have wandered on this board by accident, but get your facts straight before posting.

    In MO there is a $35 fine for concealed carry while not in possession of your permit. It is NOT considered a criminal offense, they will not arrest you until you can prove it etc.

    It is clearly outlined in Missouri Revised Statues Chapter 571
    Weapons Offenses Section 571.121.

    You can read it here.

    http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5710000121.HTM

    i was not quoting or citing any "facts" i was stating a broad opinion on the POSSIBLE outcome. as a lot of departments in the country do not have a system. i know know that MO does. along with mass and california. my post was a general post of what COULD happen depending on local laws. not a citation of actual law or fact as you can see by the severe lack of links or quoted text. i have had my weapon pulled in a few states for failure to produce because i forgot my credentials at a friends, or a hotel. was not attempting to know the laws in your state was just giving general advice. :-)
    i would rather run out of blood, breath and life. and die fighting. than run out of ammo , and die with my pants down -Tom Scantas

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    Couple of things for you to remember if you are carrying on an OOS permit.

    1. Missouri's law is a defense for carrying a concealed weapon, not permission.
    2. If you do not have your OOS permit with you, there is no way to verify the validity, you will likely be arrested and charged with carrying a concealed weapon.
    3. You will not likely be convicted, but it will cost you in lawyer fees.
    4. There is no protection to recoup those fees.
    5. You might become the poster child for some prosecutor trying to make a political name for themselves and twist the regulations of the state the permit is from into some fabricated charge.
    6. And most importantly, you are not, repeat not excluded from the GFSZ act and could be charged federally for violating it.

    Not telling anyone how to live, you are a free American, but know the risk to that very freedom based upon the choices you make as the system will screw you around as much as possible and it will likely be directly proportional to the amount of money you have, not fair, just an observation.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    6. And most importantly, you are not, repeat not excluded from the GFSZ act and could be charged federally for violating it.


    correct me if im wrong, but if you are on private property you should be ok?
    Constantly choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kylemoul View Post
    6. And most importantly, you are not, repeat not excluded from the GFSZ act and could be charged federally for violating it.


    correct me if im wrong, but if you are on private property you should be ok?
    Yes, but never forget easements etc. Stand on the sidewalk in front of my house, you got a problem. Park in the street and exit your car to pvt property you got a problem etc.

    Bogus law with bogus implications.

    Thank goodness it has been used primarily as an adder charge not a primary.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    indeed.

    i oc on my girlfrieds property. she lives right across from a high school.

    lets hope it stays as an adder charge.
    Constantly choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil.

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Help me out here....with a MO CCW, the GFSZ isn't applicable; however, without an OOS CCW they may have issues?

    Thx!

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    If you are in a school zone, or within 1000' feet thereof (not on private property) you are in violation of 18 USC 922(q) aka (the Gun Free School Zone) and are subject to it's penalties, unless you possess a permit to carry a firearm issued by the same state that the school zone is in. And before getting such permit, a police agency in that state has verified that you have a clean background.

    There are a couple of other exceptions, such as having the firearm unload in a case, field stripped, or otherwise incapable of use. Private security at the school, attending a firearm event sanctioned by the school, etc.. More can be found here;

    http://trac.syr.edu/laws/18/18USC00922.html
    Last edited by Shooter64738; 10-03-2011 at 04:15 PM.

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    that is correct redbaron. although there has not been a case where someone was charged just for having a firearm within 1000' all by itself doesnt mean it cant happen. all the charges have been added to another charge, such as someone committing a robbery, rape, etc...

    i too have an oos permit. i would rather protect my life than worry violating an unconstitutional law. you can fight that in court. you cant fight that buried 6 feet under.
    keep in mind this is my opinion.
    Constantly choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil.

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    I appreciate the info shooter64738 and kylemoul.

    I have a MO CCW; however, a relative and friend doesn't. I don't think they know that.

    Thanks!!

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    one reason why you should get a MO permit if at all possible, also by doing so it shows the state you take the measure to protect yourself. (oc aside)
    Constantly choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil.

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    A few points that, IMHO, need "clearing up" here in this thread.

    1. It was mentioned in an earlier post that a LEO will "...will know whether or not you have your CCW, if you have any outstanding warrants, if you are a know offender of anything, etc...." before ever stepping out of his/her patrol car. That is actually not possible. For starters, there is no way for any LEO to know who is actually operating any particular vehicle at any given time. In other words, just because the license plate number is registered to "John Smith", that doesn't meant that "Bob Jones" isn't actually driving the vehicle at this time. Secondly, a Missouri CCW endorsement is NOT tied to your vehicle registration, but rather it is tied to the identification number issued to you on your MO Drivers License or MO Non-driver ID. So while it would be possible for an LEO to cross-check the name to which the vehicle license plate is registered to see if there is also a MO CCW endorsement issued to a person of the same name, again, there is no way for the officer to be sure who is actually operating the vehicle. In short, every LEO is trained to assume that every driver is armed. Period.

    2. In another reply, it was mentioned that in Missouri, a CCW endorsement is "....a defense for carrying a concealed weapon, not permission....". This, also, is not exactly correct. Under RSMO 571.030.4, the "Unlawful Use of Weapons" violation spelled out in RSMO 571.030.1.(1) specifically "does not apply to any person who has a valid concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 or a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed firearms issued by another state or political subdivision of another state.". So it isn't a defense to RSMO 571.030.1.(1), it is an EXEMPTION to it.

    3. Missouri LEO's CAN find non-resident CCW permits/endorsements, at least in some instances, in very short order. I've seen two different LEO's find Florida permits held by MO residents with nothing more than a MO DL to work with. I don't know if it works the same for non-resident CCW permits/endorsements from other states, but they can find the FL endorsement awful fast.

    4. As to the question asked in the OP, it was answered correctly. At most, you can be cited with a $35 fine if you fail to carry the endorsement with you/display the endorsement when asked, when you are carrying a concealed firearm in Missouri in an area where the CCW endorsement is required (outside of your vehicle/property/dwelling).
    Last edited by cshoff; 10-04-2011 at 12:38 AM.

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