gun question for Mainers.

carry for myself · Oct 4, 2011

boyscout399 said:
Honestly though, the finish is falling apart in his hands and he's not willing to part with it for a few weeks to get it fixed when he has another perfectly good defensive firearm as backup? It all sounds rather fishy. If it's truly as he said, no one in their right mind after spending $500 on a new gun would say "Oh, I guess it's not that bad." They would be outraged and demand it be fixed. Also, no seller in their right mind that sold such an obviously defective product would not back it up. He said he bought it a few weeks ago. If it was a few weeks ago, Cabelas would surely get it fixed without fail.

Since he seems to be taking it so lightly, and Cabela's seems unwilling to help him, I'm thinking he may know more than he is leading on as to why the finish is falling off (self done duracoat job gone wrong perhaps)

Alright boyscout. I've never had an issue with you before. In fact I do believe I've even gone as far as to defend you on here once or twice. But sorry to say. Now you have highly offended me and outright pissed me off. Where do you get off with your attitude and what in gods name makes you believe you can outright accuse me of lying, decipt and making things up? Let's get a few things straight. Cabelas for one does NOT allow returns of firearms EVER under any circumstance. So returning it was NOT an option. They OFFERED to send it to glock. Which I declined because I did not want to lose the weapon for a lengthy period of time due to the caliber. Yes I do have a sig but it is a 9mm and I only use it for range time and cheap ammo, however I do not trust the 9mm round for personal protection. Hence why I asked if anyone knew of a local smith that could repair the finish. Now your outright insulting attack on my charachter by insinuating that something is "fishy" about my post or my personal reasoning for not wanting to send my gun away for almost 10 weeks is not only rediculous but also 100% un provoked and un called for. If you didn't know of a local gunsmith, you didn't have to post a reply. But I do have to say your accusations and insults have formaly and irriversably changed my opinon of you and the level of respect I once had.

crdonov · Oct 4, 2011

Easy boys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Xd-over

boyscout399 · Oct 4, 2011

carry for myself said:
Alright boyscout. I've never had an issue with you before. In fact I do believe I've even gone as far as to defend you on here once or twice. But sorry to say. Now you have highly offended me and outright pissed me off. Where do you get off with your attitude and what in gods name makes you believe you can outright accuse me of lying, decipt and making things up? Let's get a few things straight. Cabelas for one does NOT allow returns of firearms EVER under any circumstance. So returning it was NOT an option. They OFFERED to send it to glock. Which I declined because I did not want to lose the weapon for a lengthy period of time due to the caliber. Yes I do have a sig but it is a 9mm and I only use it for range time and cheap ammo, however I do not trust the 9mm round for personal protection. Hence why I asked if anyone knew of a local smith that could repair the finish. Now your outright insulting attack on my charachter by insinuating that something is "fishy" about my post or my personal reasoning for not wanting to send my gun away for almost 10 weeks is not only rediculous but also 100% un provoked and un called for. If you didn't know of a local gunsmith, you didn't have to post a reply. But I do have to say your accusations and insults have formaly and irriversably changed my opinon of you and the level of respect I once had.

9mm 124gr JHP at 1181fps has the same penetration value of a 357 sig 125gn JHP at 1319fps.

You'd rather trust your life to a gun that's falling apart in your hands than a reliable one at a slightly slower speed?

If you've known me for any length of time, you'd know that I always have my skeptical hat on. I mean no disrespect by my comments.

carry for myself · Oct 4, 2011

boyscout399 said:
9mm 124gr JHP at 1181fps has the same penetration value of a 357 sig 125gn JHP at 1319fps.

You'd rather trust your life to a gun that's falling apart in your hands than a reliable one at a slightly slower speed?

If you've known me for any length of time, you'd know that I always have my skeptical hat on. I mean no disrespect by my comments.

actually it has a great rate of over penitration as you know. as does the .357 sig. hence why i have a .40 cal conversion barrel for it. that way if god forbid i have to use it. i do not take out the old lady behind the BG, or the other innocent bystanders. i dont use 9mm also because i have a Er trauma doctor in my family who has seen many 9mm gunshot victims in LA take 8-10 of the rounds and walk into ER. its not effective enough for me. its a personal choice. now i also know my glocks. in and out , and every other gun there is. i study ballistics, i do my own tests on home made gel. i test against glass, metal, old car doors ect. i also study firearm structure, manufactring techniques and history. 9mm is unreliable so i dont use it. but my knowlege of firearms makes me a very well known person at gunstores throughout southern maine. in fact it makes me well known enough that the employees at cabelas itself use me as a selling point for different firearms and when im in the store, ask me questions that they dont know the answers to. with this being said im almost certain my weapons structural integrity is indeed intact. and i planned on having the barrel and slide run through an ultrasound to check for areas of low or non fusion. that was not the issue. seeing as with glock, springfield, sig and colt i do all my own gunsmithing, milling and trigger work, the issue was a simple question of if anyone knew of a gunsmith in maine that could media blast everything off of it and just refinish it because as of yet i do not hold the capability to do it in-house as i do with everything else. now if you meant no disrespect that is fine. but being skeptical to yourself and having your own internal concerns is one thing, and a PM asking deeper questions may be warranted in that scenario, but public accusations are not needed. i may not know every law pertaining to OC. i admit i have been doing it for years but the legalities of it are clearly your department and not mine. but gunsmithing, firearms and my knowledge of them are something i value highly and respect myself over, and many others respect me for, so if i exploded in my previous post i apologize , i just felt harshly insulted.

crdonov · Oct 4, 2011

I will always trust my 9mm!!! Put 2 in the chest, and one in the fore head there not walking into a hospital!!!

Xd-over

carry for myself · Oct 4, 2011

crdonov said:
I will always trust my 9mm!!! Put 2 in the chest, and one in the fore head there not walking into a hospital!!!

Xd-over

lol but you can put 10 everywhere else and they will

. i like big bore. just a personal preference. although if i had no choice. 9mm will kill. just wont overkill lol and i like overkill , to me better than underkill :-D

crdonov · Oct 4, 2011

carry for myself said:
lol but you can put 10 everywhere else and they will . i like big bore. just a personal preference. although if i had no choice. 9mm will kill. just wont overkill lol and i like overkill , to me better than underkill :-D

why overkill??? 9mm will put a subject down!!! remember 9mm has higher velocity!!! if i want overkill ill get it done with my AR-15!!!

XD-OVER

Grapeshot · Oct 4, 2011

carry for myself said:
lol but you can put 10 everywhere else and they will . i like big bore. just a personal preference. although if i had no choice. 9mm will kill. just wont overkill lol and i like overkill , to me better than underkill :-D

The reference to kill, overkill and underkill are unfortunate. The primary use of deadly force ought to be to stop the threat. I for one have no desire to kill anyone, under any circumstances, ever......and that is no laughing [strike]lol[/strike] matter.

Accuracy trumps caliber and number of rounds in self defense situations.

Your sig line proclaims bad advice IMHO - I would never shoot "if in doubt".

So what do you carry?

thebigsd · Oct 4, 2011

Grapeshot said:
The reference to kill, overkill and underkill are unfortunate. The primary use of deadly force ought to be to stop the threat. I for one have no desire to kill anyone, under any circumstances, ever......and that is no laughing [strike]lol[/strike] matter.

Accuracy trumps caliber and number of rounds in self defense situations.

Your sig line proclaims bad advice IMHO - I would never shoot "if in doubt".

So what do you carry?

Bingo. A 9mm round is going to stop just about anybody. Will it stop a PCP-laden criminal intent on destruction? Maybe not. Most of us have a very very small chance of actually using our handgun in self-defense. The chance of us encountering "superman" is even smaller. Shoot to stop the threat.

boyscout399 · Oct 4, 2011

carry for myself said:
actually it has a great rate of over penitration as you know. as does the .357 sig. hence why i have a .40 cal conversion barrel for it. that way if god forbid i have to use it. i do not take out the old lady behind the BG, or the other innocent bystanders. i dont use 9mm also because i have a Er trauma doctor in my family who has seen many 9mm gunshot victims in LA take 8-10 of the rounds and walk into ER. its not effective enough for me. its a personal choice. now i also know my glocks. in and out , and every other gun there is. i study ballistics, i do my own tests on home made gel. i test against glass, metal, old car doors ect. i also study firearm structure, manufactring techniques and history. 9mm is unreliable so i dont use it. but my knowlege of firearms makes me a very well known person at gunstores throughout southern maine. in fact it makes me well known enough that the employees at cabelas itself use me as a selling point for different firearms and when im in the store, ask me questions that they dont know the answers to. with this being said im almost certain my weapons structural integrity is indeed intact. and i planned on having the barrel and slide run through an ultrasound to check for areas of low or non fusion. that was not the issue. seeing as with glock, springfield, sig and colt i do all my own gunsmithing, milling and trigger work, the issue was a simple question of if anyone knew of a gunsmith in maine that could media blast everything off of it and just refinish it because as of yet i do not hold the capability to do it in-house as i do with everything else. now if you meant no disrespect that is fine. but being skeptical to yourself and having your own internal concerns is one thing, and a PM asking deeper questions may be warranted in that scenario, but public accusations are not needed. i may not know every law pertaining to OC. i admit i have been doing it for years but the legalities of it are clearly your department and not mine. but gunsmithing, firearms and my knowledge of them are something i value highly and respect myself over, and many others respect me for, so if i exploded in my previous post i apologize , i just felt harshly insulted.

.40 180gn at 995fps outpenetrates 9mm and 357 sig. .40 165gn at 1076fps is the same pen as 9mm and 357 sig. 9mm only over penetrates in a FMJ but so does every other pistol caliber in FMJ. Most times you see someone take 8-10 9mm it's with FMJ not JHP. Shot placement is key with any pistol caliber. I suggest reading up on the FBIs testing of pistol calibers.

Almost any common pistol caliber above 9mm with a quality hollow point bullet does between 12.5 and 14 inches in ballistic gel. The FBI's minimum effective penetration is 12 inches.

The temporary wound channel in a 9mm is slightly smaller than with 357 sig or .40S+W but the FBIs testing of MANY gunshot victims determined that the temporary channel does no real tissue damage and is therefore irrelevant to the effectiveness of the round. They also determined that no pistol caliber has the capability of "stopping" a man without a direct nervous system hit to the brain or spinal column. Most "one shot stops" are psychological stops and not physical stops.

Also, ask your ER trauma nurse family member how many people she's seen come in dead to a single .22 round. I bet it's higher than you think. The .22 has claimed more lives in this country than any other caliber. That doesn't mean it's an effective self defense option, don't get me wrong. But it does illustrate that caliber is not the best indicator of a bullets effectiveness.

carry for myself · Oct 4, 2011

Grapeshot said:
The reference to kill, overkill and underkill are unfortunate. The primary use of deadly force ought to be to stop the threat. I for one have no desire to kill anyone, under any circumstances, ever......and that is no laughing [strike]lol[/strike] matter.

Accuracy trumps caliber and number of rounds in self defense situations.

Your sig line proclaims bad advice IMHO - I would never shoot "if in doubt".

So what do you carry?

well my point IS to stop the threat. and a dead threat is certainly a stopped one. when i started carrying i promised myself i would never fire a warning shot, i would never point my weapon and yell "freeze".......if i unholster my weapon i intend to use it. and not to wound the person. if they only need wounding i can do that with a non lethal method. keeping this promise keeps me from un-holstering in an un needed scenario, and forces me to only resort to my weapon as a 100% last ditch option. an option i hope i never have to use.

accuracy does trump caliber. i know that

and my sig line is a phrase my nam vet uncle told me. it was used in nam. its the same as "make it count" it doesnt mean if you dont know what your shooting at empty the mag. it means if you dont think 1 round is gonna take out 8 guys........empty the mag. and if your soiling your pants. odds are you need the spare.

i carry a Glock 32 with 2 conversions for .40 S&w and one for 9mm luger for range use. thinking about a M&P compact as a backup through. if i can find a buyer for my Sig P250

carry for myself · Oct 4, 2011

boyscout399 said:
.40 180gn at 995fps outpenetrates 9mm and 357 sig. .40 165gn at 1076fps is the same pen as 9mm and 357 sig. 9mm only over penetrates in a FMJ but so does every other pistol caliber in FMJ. Most times you see someone take 8-10 9mm it's with FMJ not JHP. Shot placement is key with any pistol caliber. I suggest reading up on the FBIs testing of pistol calibers.

Almost any common pistol caliber above 9mm with a quality hollow point bullet does between 12.5 and 14 inches in ballistic gel. The FBI's minimum effective penetration is 12 inches.

The temporary wound channel in a 9mm is slightly smaller than with 357 sig or .40S+W but the FBIs testing of MANY gunshot victims determined that the temporary channel does no real tissue damage and is therefore irrelevant to the effectiveness of the round. They also determined that no pistol caliber has the capability of "stopping" a man without a direct nervous system hit to the brain or spinal column. Most "one shot stops" are psychological stops and not physical stops.

Also, ask your ER trauma nurse family member how many people she's seen come in dead to a single .22 round. I bet it's higher than you think. The .22 has claimed more lives in this country than any other caliber. That doesn't mean it's an effective self defense option, don't get me wrong. But it does illustrate that caliber is not the best indicator of a bullets effectiveness.

actually hes a Emergency Trauma Surgeon

and i still dont trust 9mm lol just a personal preference. but you cant "trust" any handgun round lower than the .454 casul or .500 S&w..... but they are not practical. so let me rephrase .......i dont "perfer" 9mm . personal preference.

and your right about the .22 its so light weight that when it enters soft tissue and compacts with bone or other harder surfaces it kind of slingshots off of everything solid and pinballs through the body taking out everything in its path. in all reality the .22 mag or .22LR is the deadliest small caliber there is, along with .17HMR and .25acp. but i wouldnt carry them

crdonov · Oct 4, 2011

what you cant trust is a Glock with the finish coming off it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

XD-OVER

boyscout399 · Oct 4, 2011

carry for myself said:
actually hes a Emergency Trauma Surgeon and i still dont trust 9mm lol just a personal preference. but you cant "trust" any handgun round lower than the .454 casul or .500 S&w..... but they are not practical. so let me rephrase .......i dont "perfer" 9mm . personal preference.

and your right about the .22 its so light weight that when it enters soft tissue and compacts with bone or other harder surfaces it kind of slingshots off of everything solid and pinballs through the body taking out everything in its path. in all reality the .22 mag or .22LR is the deadliest small caliber there is, along with .17HMR and .25acp. but i wouldnt carry them

A preference I can understand

Carry on, but seriously, get that glock fixed. it's a liability. You paid for a new gun. Don't settle for anything less than a new gun. That's a lot of money to just "be satisfied"

Shooter McGee · Oct 24, 2011

carry for myself said:
wish it was that easy. if it was just bluing i would do it myself in my stove lol however glock does not use bluing on anything other than the barrel. the slide itself has a tenifer treated metal coated with a black packerized finish. if you try to put bluing on it it will do nothing but make it look weird. i need a new packerized finish or some type of duracoat.

you wrote 'packerized' and it is parkerized. park not pack.

Grapeshot · Oct 24, 2011

carry for myself said:
wish it was that easy. if it was just bluing i would do it myself in my stove lol however glock does not use bluing on anything other than the barrel. the slide itself has a tenifer treated metal coated with a black packerized finish. if you try to put bluing on it it will do nothing but make it look weird. i need a new packerized finish or some type of duracoat.

Shooter McGee said:
you wrote 'packerized' and it is parkerized. park not pack.

I thought that might be a new type of finish designed to resist wear while packin' it in a hard holster like a Serpa.

Wonder how a tupperware gun would hold up to heat curing in an oven - I really don't know.

carry for myself · Oct 24, 2011

did something about it!!!!!!. i sold the glock to KTP! haha got $500 in trade for it, my serpa, 2 other holsters and my .357 sig ammo and bought this!!!!

no more tupperware gun for me its all 1911 here on!

thebigsd · Oct 24, 2011

carry for myself said:
did something about it!!!!!!. i sold the glock to KTP! haha got $500 in trade for it, my serpa, 2 other holsters and my .357 sig ammo and bought this!!!!

no more tupperware gun for me its all 1911 here on!

Nice choice on the 1911!! Much better than plastic. I have a Taurus 1911 and it has been really reliable.

Is it just me or do those rounds not look like .45ACPs?

carry for myself · Oct 24, 2011

thebigsd said:
Nice choice on the 1911!! Much better than plastic. I have a Taurus 1911 and it has been really reliable.

Is it just me or do those rounds not look like .45ACPs?

oh they are. its Fiocchhi extrema Xtps. they are italian steel casings, military primers and loaded with 230g Horinday XTP rounds. 50 rnds for $24 at cabelas. never had an issue with them. also got 20 rounds of speer gold dot 185g HPj's too :-D

i chose the taurus over the Kimber i was looking at for the guarantee alone. no matter what happens to it.for the rest of time. they will replace or fix it for free :-D . thing is built like a tank though. weighs about 3lbs. but has combat trigger and hammer. trigger is adjustable. night sights. got 4 mags and a serpa for it......$450 ;-)

thebigsd · Oct 24, 2011

carry for myself said:
SNIP oh they are. its Fiocchhi extrema Xtps. they are italian steel casings, military primers and loaded with 230g Horinday XTP rounds. 50 rnds for $24 at cabelas.

Gotcha. Thought the points looked a little narrow. Congrats again!

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