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Thread: Ben Wallace should have attended an OC seminar; it could have saved his a$$ :(

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Ben Wallace should have attended an OC seminar; it could have saved his a$$ :(

    http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2011/09/...unken-driving/

    He screwed up drinking, but he could have easily avoided the firearms charge by simply using an "approved container" instead of his backpack, placed in the rear of the SUV instead of the passenger seat. Sad to face a FELONY over an unloaded pistol. All Pistons need to check out this and other OC websites such as MGO/MOC/CLSD/UFO etc...
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 09-29-2011 at 09:39 PM. Reason: typo
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2011/09/...unken-driving/

    He screwed up drinking, but he could have easily avoided the firearms charge by simply using an "approved container" instead of his backpack, placed in the rear of the SUV instead of the passenger seat. Sad to face a FELONY over an unloaded pistol. All Pistons need to check out this and other OC websites such as MGO/MOC/CLSD/UFO etc...
    I didn't know the container needed to be "approved"... the things I learn here...
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    I didn't know the container needed to be "approved"... the things I learn here...
    Yup - I know you were razzing me DrTodd , it must be designed for guns for those that don't know?

    Just another BS law in my opinion to trip up folks. Hell, lets say you are a welder by trade and fab up a 1" thick walled diamond plate steel container, in MI that would be an illegal transport for a NON CPL holder.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(3y0...e=mcl-750-231a

    Snip MCL 750.231
    (d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, andthe pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.

    (e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 09-29-2011 at 11:42 PM. Reason: bold
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  4. #4
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    Yup - I know you were razzing me DrTodd , it must be designed for guns for those that don't know?

    Just another BS law in my opinion to trip up folks. Hell, lets say you are a welder by trade and fab up a 1" thick diamond plate steel container, in the MI that would be an illegal transport for a NON CPL holder.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(3y0...e=mcl-750-231a

    Snip MCL 750.231
    (d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, andthe pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.

    (e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.
    No problem, I knew what you meant. But... I would think that if you designed the case to hold your handgun it meets the requirement. The law doesn't dictate that it can't be designed by you. I imagine that what they were trying to avoid was someone who attempted to argue that, for example, a backpack full of other things met the requirement as a case. But, without any case law, who really KNOWS what they were thinking? (get it, CASE law ?)
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    No problem, I knew what you meant. But... I would think that if you designed the case to hold your handgun it meets the requirement. The law doesn't dictate that it can't be designed by you. I imagine that what they were trying to avoid was someone who attempted to argue that, for example, a backpack full of other things met the requirement as a case. But, without any case law, who really KNOWS what they were thinking? (get it, CASE law ?)
    I my humble opinion, the only safe way to avoid nit picking LEO's / Prosecutors is to use a "Store bought" case thus no way for them to weasel a charge.

    That was a good word play Dr. well done Sir!
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 09-29-2011 at 11:50 PM. Reason: monkey
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    I my humble opinion, the only safe way to avoid nit picking LEO's / Prosecutors is to use a "Store bought" case thus no way for them to weasel a charge.
    That would be the safest way, but I'm just sayin'...

    BTW, I bought a metal gun safe at Harbor Freight that looks like a book... except it says that it is for firearms right inside of it (see below). The interesting thing is that "case" would probably pass muster. Just shows the illogical thoughts of those who make such stupid laws.


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by DrTodd; 09-29-2011 at 11:57 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    That would be the safest way, but I'm just sayin'...

    BTW, I bought a metal gun safe at Harbor Freight that looks like a book... except it says that it is for firearms right inside of it (see below). The interesting thing is that "case" would probably pass muster. Just shows the illogical thoughts of those who make such stupid laws.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	image_13601.jpg 
Views:	120 
Size:	28.7 KB 
ID:	7011
    +1,000,000,000,000,000,000
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 09-29-2011 at 11:59 PM.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  8. #8
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    +1,000,000,000,000,000,000
    That should cover me for a while
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    That should cover me for a while
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VSYmGSJtCA
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 09-30-2011 at 12:14 AM.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    I would hope that this would draw attention to the useless laws that should be removed, but Its probably going to get lost among other issues. The guy is rich, spoiled even, famous, and drinking and driving was at play here. If it were from rolling a stop sign, it might garner more support.
    Last edited by stainless1911; 09-30-2011 at 01:19 AM.

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    Penalties need to be attached to the oath that the police take. That way, as soon as one brings someone up on a charge like this, he can be immediately terminated for breaking the oath that he swore to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Penalties need to be attached to the oath that the police take. That way, as soon as one brings someone up on a charge like this, he can be immediately terminated for breaking the oath that he swore to.
    "Charge like this"? Did I miss something? He was drunk driving while had a gun in the passenger compartment of his vehicle...very illegal. What oath did the officer break?

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    "Charge like this"? Did I miss something? He was drunk driving while had a gun in the passenger compartment of his vehicle...very illegal. What oath did the officer break?
    Why his oath to uphold the 2A in regards to the gun charge. He didn't for the drunk driving arrest.

    Keep in mind LEOs have discretion to arrest. There are more than one sheriff in the country that are refusing to charge for mere possession of a firearm (even though their state may have laws against it.) and are only charging for using the gun in a crime. They take there oath to uphold the Constitution seriously.
    Last edited by Venator; 09-30-2011 at 11:42 AM.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Exactly.

    If I were a cop, I would explain ti the person, "The law says this or that, but I took an oath to a greater law, and follow a higher power, the next cop might just charge you with something". As for the DUI, busted.
    Last edited by stainless1911; 09-30-2011 at 12:07 PM.

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    A Great Responsibility.
    This act of drinking and carrying a concealed weapon, was Ben Wallace's choice to do.
    No one took this right from him, he also had the right to follow the law or not, “His Discretion”

    To Protect and Serve, If Ben Wallace decides to drink and conceal again, the Officer may have saved someones life, and saved Ben Wallace from serving the rest of his life in prison.
    Ben Wallace, should thank the Officer.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gort View Post
    A Great Responsibility.
    This act of drinking and carrying a concealed weapon, was Ben Wallace's choice to do.
    No one took this right from him, he also had the right to follow the law or not, “His Discretion”

    To Protect and Serve, If Ben Wallace decides to drink and conceal again, the Officer may have saved someones life, and saved Ben Wallace from serving the rest of his life in prison.
    Ben Wallace, should thank the Officer.
    You don't get it.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    You don't get it.
    This is a sad incident all the way around. It is clear Ben Wallace made mistakes, bad ones. It is also clear that he made an attempt to comply with the law in MI (be it a poor one) the pistol was unloaded and stowed in a backpack in the passenger seat. Now should he be facing a 5yr felony? That is the irony here in my opinion...It's a misdemeanor to driver a 4,000+ lbs SUV down the road filled with "explosive & toxic" materials drunk, but it's a 5yr felony to improperly transport his pistol for self protection? That is what people should be asking here in my honest/humble opinion.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    The average joe doesnt know the laws like some of us do. This law shouldnt exist to begin with.

    The first amendment to the constitution should have been one that prohibited any laws that werent common sense.

  19. #19
    Regular Member sprinklerguy28's Avatar
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    The pistol was registered in his wife's name. As far as I can tell he does not possess a CPL. Therefore the possession of his wife's pistol is a crime on its own.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinklerguy28 View Post
    The pistol was registered in his wife's name. As far as I can tell he does not possess a CPL. Therefore the possession of his wife's pistol is a crime on its own.
    Well, I think the point is if we had constitutional carry, the gun would have been inconsequential and the only charge would have been drunk driving.

    The point is the mere possession of a firearm (Constitutional right) should not be illegal.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Agreed.

    Just another case of rules for the sake of having rules, and nothing more.

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    He might have had a better chance in court on the CCW charge if the weapon was in ANY type of locked container and placed in the most REAR portion of the vehicle. Given the fact that it was up front and not in a locked case I think he is totally out of luck. IMO...I don't see why he shouldn't face a charge on this. OCers without a CPL keep their firearms unloaded in the trunk of their vehicle. If they don't have a trunk they store it unloaded in some type of locked box in the rear of the vehicle. If he is exempt, then everyone without a CPL should be able to have an unloaded firearm on the seat next to them in their vehicle.
    Last edited by budlight; 10-01-2011 at 01:27 AM.

  23. #23
    Regular Member sprinklerguy28's Avatar
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    The term constitutional carry is dangerous. Check out the 3 states that have it and how restricted they are in where they can carry. I agree that we should be able to carry without permits everywhere. However the fact is we currently have laws that need to be followed. He broke the law and is another idiot making guns/gun owners look dumb in the media. We need to change the laws not complain about cops enforcing the current ones.

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    If he knew the laws and broke them anyway, then he would be an idiot. The idiocy here, is in the law, not in Mr Wallace.

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    I don't see how this CCW charge will stick. Arizona v Gant is now settled, the search of the car was unlawful.

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