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Thread: DOJ Considering Elimination of ATF

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    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    DOJ Considering Elimination of ATF

    Multiple sources, including sources from ATF, DOJ and Congressional offices have said there is a white paper circulating within the Department of Justice, outlining the essential elimination of ATF. According to sources, the paper outlines the firing of at least 450 ATF agents in an effort to conduct damage control as Operation Fast and Furious gets uglier and as election day 2012 gets closer. ATF agents wouldn’t be reassigned to other positions, just simply let go. Current duties of ATF, including the enforcement of explosives and gun laws, would be transferred to other agencies, possibly the FBI and the DEA. According to a congressional source, there have been rumblings about the elimination of ATF for quite sometime, but the move would require major political capital to actually happen.

    Sounds great right? Eliminating ATF? But there is more to this story.

    http://townhall.com/columnists/katie...atf/page/full/

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    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    Last week, ATF offered 400 agents buy outs to avoid budget cuts and is expecting 250-275 agents to take the offer through Voluntary Early Retirement. These buyouts come at a convenient time for the Justice Department, which can eliminate ATF, then say it’s because of budget cuts, when really, it’s to cover their tracks.

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    Souns like someone at the DOJ has a MM card and a CPL.

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    Regular Member fozzy71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Souns like someone at the DOJ has a MM card and a CPL.
    orly?

    Quote Originally Posted by griffin View Post
    ...... Current duties of ATF, including the enforcement of explosives and gun laws, would be transferred to other agencies, possibly the FBI and the DEA. According to a congressional source, there have been rumblings about the elimination of ATF for quite sometime, but the move would require major political capital to actually happen.

    Sounds great right? Eliminating ATF? But there is more to this story.

    http://townhall.com/columnists/katie...atf/page/full/
    ^
    "I like users who quote smellslikemichigan in their signature lines." - fozzy71

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    Ronald Regan called for the elimination of the BATF when he campaigned for office.

    Let's call our elected officials on this both State and Federal, I am all for getting rid of the ATF.


    Quote Originally Posted by griffin View Post
    Multiple sources, including sources from ATF, DOJ and Congressional offices have said there is a white paper circulating within the Department of Justice, outlining the essential elimination of ATF. According to sources, the paper outlines the firing of at least 450 ATF agents in an effort to conduct damage control as Operation Fast and Furious gets uglier and as election day 2012 gets closer. ATF agents wouldn’t be reassigned to other positions, just simply let go. Current duties of ATF, including the enforcement of explosives and gun laws, would be transferred to other agencies, possibly the FBI and the DEA. According to a congressional source, there have been rumblings about the elimination of ATF for quite sometime, but the move would require major political capital to actually happen.

    Sounds great right? Eliminating ATF? But there is more to this story.

    http://townhall.com/columnists/katie...atf/page/full/

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    (8) KEEP IT ON-TOPIC: All gun rights discussions not directly related to open carry should take place in the "General Discussions" forum and topics that are not related to gun rights at all should take place in "The Lounge". Please police your own posts before posting them and help keep OCDO strong and focused.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

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    Cool

    PD your such a killjoy today :-)

    Did someone WE know tinkle in your corn flakes ?

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    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

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    Baaaahahahahaha someone had to do it.

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    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    That image is a violation of the forum rules-

    He's not open carrying!
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mastiff69 View Post
    PD your such a killjoy today :-)

    Did someone WE know tinkle in your corn flakes ?
    Nope, just think the conversation belongs elsewhere (OCDO General Discussion). I think it is topic to be discussed, have not stated otherwise...

    How many stickies does MI have? How much "extraneous information" does a newbie to OCDO have to weed through just to get to MI Specific Information? Simply a matter of organization...

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    A new-b would do well to read them all.

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    A new-b would do well to read them all.
    I would rather the newbie getting information pertinent to Open Carry in MI first and foremost, that is the purpose of a MI Subforum. It is simply a matter of information organization.

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDinDetroit View Post
    Nope, just think the conversation belongs elsewhere (OCDO General Discussion). I think it is topic to be discussed, have not stated otherwise...

    How many stickies does MI have? How much "extraneous information" does a newbie to OCDO have to weed through just to get to MI Specific Information? Simply a matter of organization...
    I must say I concur regarding the # of stickies here. I really think those should be limited a bit more. Perhaps if the search function worked a bit better, it wouldn't be such an issue, but this is just conjecture. Probably more a problem based upon the success of this sub-forum; there is much more activity here some days than other state forums get over two months. My opinion as to "why" really is not a criticism of other state's forums, rather I believe it speaks to the knowledge here regarding Michigan firearm law compared to what often can be found on other Michigan-based websites, so...
    Good job people, by making this popular we may be making it less user friendly. Note: the opinions I've expressed are based upon nothing more than letting my thoughts wander... and are about as useful as wandering thoughts can ever be...
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    I must say I concur regarding the # of stickies here. I really think those should be limited a bit more. Perhaps if the search function worked a bit better, it wouldn't be such an issue, but this is just conjecture. Probably more a problem based upon the success of this sub-forum; there is much more activity here some days than other state forums get over two months. My opinion as to "why" really is not a criticism of other state's forums, rather I believe it speaks to the knowledge here regarding Michigan firearm law compared to what often can be found on other Michigan-based websites, so...
    Good job people, by making this popular we may be making it less user friendly. Note: the opinions I've expressed are based upon nothing more than letting my thoughts wander... and are about as useful as wandering thoughts can ever be...
    I think you're spot on Doc T.
    Keep in mind, most of the time, your "wandering thoughts" contain more sensible applied logic than some of us (including me); who must squeeze a fair amount of grey matter to form a thought, express an opinion,
    and hope the keyboard doesn't get it wrong typing it out and the intent be misunderstood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDinDetroit View Post
    I would rather the newbie getting information pertinent to Open Carry in MI first and foremost, that is the purpose of a MI Subforum. It is simply a matter of information organization.
    Honestly the best place to find info related to firearm carry in Michigan is to go to http://www.firearmowners.com/

  17. #17
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikestilly View Post
    Honestly the best place to find info related to firearm carry in Michigan is to go to http://www.firearmowners.com/
    Yep, good spot to go also. Another great website regarding other state's laws is www.handgunlaw.us... covers Michigan laws pretty well too for such broad coverage. But, I still would give the discussions here, although in no way legal advice, a very high rating. I think this website has taught me more, directly and indirectly, about all of my constitutional rights than any other place on the net.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    if they get rid of the ATF, they should get rid of NFA regulations too... [but they won't]

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    Thumbs up

    Give the man a cigar.

  20. #20
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    I don't think they mean that they wouldn't enforce federal firearm law; the DOJ would probably just have a group within the agency do so. So, I really don't think it means that much in the everyday affairs of gun owners. I could be wrong, though.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDinDetroit View Post
    Nope, just think the conversation belongs elsewhere (OCDO General Discussion). I think it is topic to be discussed, have not stated otherwise...

    How many stickies does MI have? How much "extraneous information" does a newbie to OCDO have to weed through just to get to MI Specific Information? Simply a matter of organization...
    I agree with the amount of stickies, the could be trimmed a bit.
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

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    A "stainless1911" sticky would be useful though.

    We could go right to the entertainment portion of the forum then without having to weed through all of the threads.

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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Oh you and your YouTube... lol

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    Whats so funny about my youtube channel?

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