Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: Kahr PM40 - Perfect form factor, imperfect quality

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    290

    Kahr PM40 - Perfect form factor, imperfect quality

    (word of warning, this is sort of a rant post)

    A small .40 that is shootable, what more can I ask? How about a little Quality Control, Kahr?

    I was able to stack a Cabelas 10% off coupon along with some Cabelas Club points towards the purchase of a Kahr PM40 last month while it was on sale (though "on sale" at Cabelas hardly means anything). I was totally impressed with the display model. What sold me was the smooth trigger pull, crisp break, and the small size in such a useful caliber.

    I got it home and discovered the sights were bent. I blame myself for not spending as much time with the actual gun I was purchasing as I did with the display model. So I shoot an email to Kahr along with a picture of the front sight bent to the left. Kahr wanted me to ship the slide back to them for repairs, and apologized for the inconvenience. A little over two weeks later, I got my slide back. No upgrades or goodies, just a front sight that was more straight than before (though not perfect).

    The next day I took it to the range. My first few shots didn't feel quite as smooth as the display model. After emptying my flush magazine twice, I went to reload my 11th round and discovered the follower had failed. A chunk of plastic from the follower fell into the spring making the magazine useless. I was amazed at the failure but continued shooting over 100 rounds with no further issues on the extended magazine. No failures to feed or eject, and I couldn't get it to fail to enter battery.

    Once I got back from the range, I emailed Kahr explaining the situation (still waiting on a response). After cleaning, I spent a few minutes trying to figure out why the trigger felt so lousy. While pulling the trigger, I noticed the slide lifts slightly from the back of the frame at the exact point that the trigger gets hung up (probably the point where the mechanism in the frame sweeps across the striker block safety). I'm guessing it's not aligned correctly (too close) so it's forcing the frame and slide apart, causing the trigger to hang up until it can clear it.

    With very careful trigger control (overcoming the trigger hangup), shooting 165gr WWB, it is as accurate as I am (though I had horrible luck with 165gr HydraShock JHP).

    Do I have a lemon? Or is it normal for Kahr's to just... well... (sorry Kahr fans)... suck?
    Last edited by kubel; 10-01-2011 at 01:11 AM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Yorktown, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,803
    Quote Originally Posted by kubel View Post
    ... Do I have a lemon? Or is it normal for Kahr's to just... well... (sorry Kahr fans)... suck?
    I would send it back to Kahr and see what they can do. I have two Kahr's MK40 and P380 and haven't had any issues at all. For the most part Kahr is a respected manufacturer with a few exceptions.

    The exceptions I have heard on this board are the CW line had less than stellar quality control and itself was questionable. The other interestingly enough was the PM40. Early on the PM40 had some negative reviews because people were seeing the polymer rails expand causing slide malfunctions. This was early on in the PM40 release and was thought to be caused by the more powerful 40S&W cartridge. I had hoped they worked out the kinks and hadn't seen any complaints recently. I went with the MK40 because of those issues although the PM9 was tempting. I have also contimplated the P/PM45 but don't have a burning need right now.

    So yes you could have a lemon, yes Kahr quality control may have burped, and yes the PM40 has had issues in the past but don't know if they were adequately resolved.

    You might also take it back to Cabellas and compare it to the display model. Sometimes gunstores will "do the right thing" for the customer and exchange it. Most likely they will ask you to channel it through the manufacturer.
    Last edited by 45acpForMe; 10-03-2011 at 12:50 PM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    5,849
    I have owned eleven Kahr's and still own five. Of the six I traded/sold, four had problems and three of those guns were polymer framed units... one being all stainless steel. If you get a good one, it will work as expected and do a fine job. I believe more often that not, Kahr's problems have been in some design characteristics and the fact that they build their guns with very tight tolerances. The five I currently own are fine pieces and I fully intend to keep them.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    290
    Kahr emailed me back offering 'replacement parts', which I'm guessing is a new follower. I replied detailing the trigger issue asking if they could take a look at it. We'll see if they can make this right.

  5. #5
    Regular Member carry for myself's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    546
    i have had issues with kahr. i bought a CW40 at cabelas. had the SAME EXACT magazine issue. i said eff it bought a few spares. broke 2.....it would NOT feed most HPJ's. the nose would get caught on the feed ramp and cause a failure to feed. almost every time. it was accurate as hell, but stovepiped 3 times. failed to eject once and the firing pin wouldnt fire. so ......i sold it lol to cabelas haha
    i would rather run out of blood, breath and life. and die fighting. than run out of ammo , and die with my pants down -Tom Scantas

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    290
    Just an update:

    Kahr sent me two replacement followers. Both have that little metal piece that is sticking out and causes it to hang on the lip of the magazine, preventing me from loading more than 1 round. I'm thinking maybe this magazine is bent slightly on the lip because the other magazine doesn't have this issue. I decided to finally open up my manual to see if there was any mention of this issue there, and I found a 8.5 x 11 piece of paper, folded twice, tucked behind the manual. It detailed that Cabelas sent back this gun for failure to lock the slide back on last round. So Cabelas not only sold me a lemon, they sold me a used lemon. Problem is, since I had to wait for Kahr to make repairs, I'm now past my 30 day return window with Cabelas, so I don't know what to do here.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,797
    I would complain to Cabelas that they sold you a used gun when you thought you were buying a new gun. The fact that it took you a bit after the 30 days shouldn't matter; especially if you explain your situation. Though I would expect you to need to elevate the situation a few times as I don't expect the lower level CS people to be able to properly handle the situation.

  8. #8
    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    1,937
    I have a MK9 Elite and have had good service from it thus far (2 years). Maybe if you tell them the whole forum is watching they will step up their game.
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Fairfield County, CT
    Posts
    156
    Quote Originally Posted by kubel View Post
    Just an update:

    Kahr sent me two replacement followers. Both have that little metal piece that is sticking out and causes it to hang on the lip of the magazine, preventing me from loading more than 1 round. I'm thinking maybe this magazine is bent slightly on the lip because the other magazine doesn't have this issue. I decided to finally open up my manual to see if there was any mention of this issue there, and I found a 8.5 x 11 piece of paper, folded twice, tucked behind the manual. It detailed that Cabelas sent back this gun for failure to lock the slide back on last round. So Cabelas not only sold me a lemon, they sold me a used lemon. Problem is, since I had to wait for Kahr to make repairs, I'm now past my 30 day return window with Cabelas, so I don't know what to do here.
    To preface this, I do own a couple of Kahrs that I'm very happy with - I'm sorry to hear you are having problems. As a former product manager (in an unrelated business to firearms), I would do the following:

    Phone them and explain the issue. When they say that they will send an additional replacement part, respond with a polite "no thank you" and tell them you've already tried this. Tell them you would rather have them send you a shipping label (at their expense) to send the pistol back to them and have the gun fixed and tested (they may fight you on this, but hold firm - they will eventually give in). Tell the customer service rep that you don't want to waste any more time with trying to fix the problem yourself and want them to take care of it. They should send you a prepaid shipping label in the mail for you to send the firearm back to them to correct.

    Good luck!
    Minds are like parachutes. Just because you lost yours doesn't mean you can borrow mine...

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    290
    Another update:

    I detailed the situation to Cabela's customer service and they told me since it's a firearms issue it had to be dealt with by the store manager, so they told me they would forward it to him and I should receive a response in 1-2 business days. That was Sunday morning. Hoping for a response tonight.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    290
    Final Update (hopefully)

    Joe Ross, store manager for Cabela's in Dundee, MI, called me on Friday while we were having network issues at work, so my mobile Cisco phone kept dropping his call. He was patient and called back twice and ultimately told me I could check the gun in up front and get a replacement at the counter, and apologized for the mixup.

    A few employees there were asking why I was returning it, what the problem was, and they didn't seem to understand that it was a used gun sold to me as new. One employee told me "that's not possible". I showed him the paper that was in the box showing Cabela's sent it back for failure to lock open ON LAST ROUND. He tried suggested Cabela's was the only owner, thus it's new. I didn't buy it. Cabela's doesn't do test firings. Only the factory and the owner shoots the gun. Then he tried suggesting it was shot at the factory and they discovered the problem. If the factory did a test fire and determined it was faulty, it wouldn't have been sold to Cabela's. But if Cabela's accepted a return of a faulty gun from a customer that previously bought it, they would send it back to Kahr for repairs, and then get it back and possibly assume it's a new gun (which is what I think happened). Ultimately, it didn't matter what the employee said. The manager admitted to the fact that I was somehow sold a used gun and authorized the replacement. It was an honest mistake.

    After a long wait (it was busy being the weekend), I walked out with a brand new Kahr PM40 with a smooth crisp trigger, straight sights, and good followers.
    Last edited by kubel; 10-15-2011 at 08:57 PM.

  12. #12
    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Yorktown, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,803
    Glad to hear you were able to straighten things out.

    Let us know how it shoots. I have the MK40 and it has a sharp recoil but is meant mainly as a self defense gun not a range fun gun. (similiar to the PM40).

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    290
    Quote Originally Posted by 45acpForMe View Post
    Glad to hear you were able to straighten things out.

    Let us know how it shoots. I have the MK40 and it has a sharp recoil but is meant mainly as a self defense gun not a range fun gun. (similiar to the PM40).
    When I shot the lemon PM40, it was actually more comfortable to shoot than my Walter PPS in .40 (which is a bigger gun with a bigger grip). But the trigger on the lemon PM40 was terrible, which had an impact on my accuracy. It's tough to defeat the confidence I have in the PPS (I have both 9mm and .40), but based on my dry firing of the new PM40, it's right up there with the PPS. I'll know for sure once I send some lead down range.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    290

    Angry

    The last thing I wanted to do was post another update in this thread...

    My brand new Kahr PM40 is not ejecting unspent rounds via manually racking the slide. It's as if the slide is getting hung up just before clearance is made to eject the round, and won't let me rack it back any further. At this point, the round gets partially ejected but jams on the barrel. It's doing it on every round.

    To rule out strong spring tension (or me being a weakling) as being the cause, I re-assembled the gun without the recoil spring, and it did it there too. I think I've narrowed the problem down to the take-down pin / slide release lever. As soon as this is removed, I'm able to rack the slide back fully and eject the round. I'm not sure exactly why or how it's getting stuck, but to say I'm disappointed with Kahr is a bit of an understatement...

  15. #15
    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    1,937
    Quote Originally Posted by kubel View Post
    The last thing I wanted to do was post another update in this thread...

    My brand new Kahr PM40 is not ejecting unspent rounds via manually racking the slide. It's as if the slide is getting hung up just before clearance is made to eject the round, and won't let me rack it back any further. At this point, the round gets partially ejected but jams on the barrel. It's doing it on every round.

    To rule out strong spring tension (or me being a weakling) as being the cause, I re-assembled the gun without the recoil spring, and it did it there too. I think I've narrowed the problem down to the take-down pin / slide release lever. As soon as this is removed, I'm able to rack the slide back fully and eject the round. I'm not sure exactly why or how it's getting stuck, but to say I'm disappointed with Kahr is a bit of an understatement...
    They have stiff springs and tight tolerances, I had to shoot about 300 rounds to break mine in to the point you can hand cycle. Smooth as silk and hand cycles fine now.
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    6,787
    Quote Originally Posted by oak1971 View Post
    They have stiff springs and tight tolerances, I had to shoot about 300 rounds to break mine in to the point you can hand cycle. Smooth as silk and hand cycles fine now.
    I think the point remains, any firearm should be able to fire reliably from the factory. If it doesn't, something's wrong, either in its design or is manufacture.

    If you can, take it back. If you can't, take it to a gunsmith.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Greene County
    Posts
    3,844
    I had a Kahr P45, P40 and PM40 and had issues with the followers on the PM40 breaking.
    A quick call to Kahr's customer service had new followers enroute as well as them asking me to send in the pistol.
    The pm40m was returned within 10days and the problem was gone.

    The above were traded for PM45's, no issues to date.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

  18. #18
    Regular Member McNutty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Waukesha, Wisconsin
    Posts
    84
    Quote Originally Posted by oak1971 View Post
    They have stiff springs and tight tolerances, I had to shoot about 300 rounds to break mine in to the point you can hand cycle. Smooth as silk and hand cycles fine now.
    I have a Kahr PM9. I'm not sure about the issue you are having but I've only heard positive things about Kahr's customer service. The owner's manual states that you need to run through 200 rounds to break it in - echoing oak1971, after close to 500 rounds I felt comfortable with my PM9. They are high quality but absolutely require a break in period. I know some have had feeding issues.

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    290
    Quote Originally Posted by oak1971 View Post
    They have stiff springs and tight tolerances, I had to shoot about 300 rounds to break mine in to the point you can hand cycle. Smooth as silk and hand cycles fine now.
    To eliminate the possibility that it was a spring issue (or me being a weakling), I reassembled the gun without a spring and was still able to replicate the problem. I then reassembled the gun without the take down pin and was unable to replicate the problem- so I narrowed it down to either being a barrel link issue or a take down pin issue. I sent the whole gun back to Kahr at their request and two weeks later they shipped it back repaired. Kahr apparently reworked the barrel link and polished the feed ramp while they were at it. I took it to the range and put about 80 rounds through it. It functioned flawlessly.

    The replacement that Cabela's was kind enough to give me also has a WAY better trigger than the original one. I'm about as accurate with this PM40 as I am with my Walther PPS. My thanks go out to Cabela's of Dundee, MI and to Kahr who had to put up with my lemon over the past couple months. I'm glad I finally got a 100% working, accurate, smooth, straight sighted gun. I also noticed that due to the way Cabela's put the gun exchange through their system, they re-applied Cabela's points to my account!

    I'm still hesitant to recommend Kahr due to the overall negative experience, but I can say I'm quite happy with this one now that it works.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •