Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 26

Thread: Tim Carpenter's CC Town Hall.

  1. #1
    Regular Member XDFDE45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    823

    Tim Carpenter's CC Town Hall.

    Yes you read that right. The same state senator who mailed me a few times saying he was all for CC for judges and retired LEO. So when the bill came up for a vote he voted "NO". I guess the rest of us malcontents have no need for a gun .

    So today in the mail I get this from him saying:

    "Dear Friend,

    An important part of my job as your state senator is to answer your questions about state government. At previous Town Halls and going door to door many folks have had questions about how the new law allowing the carrying of concealed weapons will affect our neighborhoods and our state.

    I have decided to have a special Town Hall to have members of law enforcement and the district attorney's office discuss how this will be implemented, and what it will mean to those who wish to apply for a concealed weapons permit, and those who are concerned about where such weapons will be allowed in our homes and businesses."

    Considering his stance on CC as shown in his "No" vote for the bill I can only imagine what is going to be said, and if LE is going to be there I'm sure there will be plenty gnashing of the teeth. I may have to make an appearance just to correct any misinformation about the new law cuz I have a strange feeling there is going to be some outlandish things said. For anyone else you is interested here is the info.

    Tim Carpenter's Concealed Carry Town Hall

    Wilson Park Senior Center
    Date: Friday, October 14, 2011
    Time: 12:00 Noon - 2:00 PM
    Location: Wilson Park Senior Center
    2601 W. Howard Ave.

    Luckily it will give me plenty of time to get to work after the meeting.
    Wisconsin Carry Member
    My Castle Doctrine Law

    Don't wish ill upon your enemy......plan it.

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    SE, WI
    Posts
    7,318
    How nice of him to hold it during the work day...
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  3. #3
    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Cassville Area -Twelve Miles From Anything, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    1,565
    Quote Originally Posted by XDFDE45 View Post
    Yes you read that right. The same state senator who mailed me a few times saying he was all for CC for judges and retired LEO. So when the bill came up for a vote he voted "NO". I guess the rest of us malcontents have no need for a gun .

    .... I may have to make an appearance just to correct any misinformation about the new law cuz I have a strange feeling there is going to be some outlandish things said. For anyone else you is interested here is the info.

    Tim Carpenter's Concealed Carry Town Hall

    Wilson Park Senior Center
    Date: Friday, October 14, 2011
    Time: 12:00 Noon - 2:00 PM
    Location: Wilson Park Senior Center
    2601 W. Howard Ave.

    Luckily it will give me plenty of time to get to work after the meeting.
    Go get 'em! I hope you have a recorder 'cause this guy is going to have to do quite a tap dance to please everybody in the room.... You could have one of the elderly residents ask one of the cops if it will be alright to strap a holster to her walker....
    Dave
    45ACP-For when you care enough to send the very best-
    Fight for "Stand Your Ground " legislation!

    WI DA Gerald R. Fox:
    "These so-called 'public safety' laws only put decent law-abiding citizens at a dangerous disadvantage when it comes to their personal safety, and I for one am glad that this decades-long era of defective thinking on gun issues is over..."

    Remember: Don't make old People mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to piss us off.

  4. #4
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in front of my computer, WI
    Posts
    4,426
    I am planning to be there, barring unforseen circumstances.

    Here's a map of the location:
    http://maps.google.com/maps/place?rl...20161191975717

    And now I'm confused as to whether or not this is a taxpayer-owned building.
    This seems to list it as a county building/service:
    http://county.milwaukee.gov/SeniorCenters12747.htm

    But this makes it look like a religious-run place:
    http://home.interfaithmilw.org/sc/wilson

    Looks like some phone calls are in order...
    If it's not a prohibited place, I'll carry.
    If it is a criminal empowerment zone, I might make a point by OCing an orange gun & maybe ccing an obvious toy pistol. Would also point out to any scaredy-pants in attendance that those could just as easily have been real, if I weren't a LAC.

    ETA: having a printout of Act 35, with useful bits highlighted / stickied, would be a good idea.
    Just in case there's any, um, misinformation floating around that needs facts to correct it.
    https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/201...ed/acts/35.pdf
    Last edited by MKEgal; 10-04-2011 at 02:37 AM. Reason: added PDF

  5. #5
    Regular Member XDFDE45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    823
    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    I am planning to be there, barring unforseen circumstances.

    Here's a map of the location:
    http://maps.google.com/maps/place?rlz=1T4ACEW_enUS300US301&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=milwaukee+wisconsin+"wilson+park+senior+center "&fb=1&gl=us&hq="wilson+park+senior+center"&hnear= 0x880502d7578b47e7:0x445f1922b5417b84,Milwaukee,+W I&cid=13688120161191975717

    And now I'm confused as to whether or not this is a taxpayer-owned building.
    This seems to list it as a county building/service:
    http://county.milwaukee.gov/SeniorCenters12747.htm

    But this makes it look like a religious-run place:
    http://home.interfaithmilw.org/sc/wilson

    Looks like some phone calls are in order...
    If it's not a prohibited place, I'll carry.
    If it is a criminal empowerment zone, I might make a point by ocing an orange gun & maybe ccing an obvious toy pistol. Would also point out to any scaredy-pants in attendance that those could just as easily have been real, if I weren't a LAC.

    ETA: having a printout of Act 35, with useful bits highlighted / stickied, would be a good idea.
    Just in case there's any, um, misinformation floating around that needs facts to correct it.
    I plan on calling this week to see if I can find out about whether it is a county building or not. I was also thinking about making a printout myself. Good idea.
    Wisconsin Carry Member
    My Castle Doctrine Law

    Don't wish ill upon your enemy......plan it.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Tosa
    Posts
    118
    Wilson Park is a county-owned park. The park building is used for a senior program run under a contract between the County Dept. of Aging and a service provider. A mid-day Town Hall there is convenient for seniors who are already on site, and that's the target audience (although the meeting is open to all).

    Are people really planning to go to this meeting looking for confrontation? I honestly can't tell if you're joking or not.

    Personally I'd be curious to see who's on hand for DOJ. What a great opportunity to ask that person questions about the rules, open carry in vehicles, etc.

  7. #7
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Chandler, AZ
    Posts
    4,047
    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    ETA: having a printout of Act 35, with useful bits highlighted / stickied, would be a good idea.
    Just in case there's any, um, misinformation floating around that needs facts to correct it.
    https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/201...ed/acts/35.pdf
    That's what I carry with me as well. Helped alot when I was discussing some finer points of the law with the City of Elkhorn attorney in the council meeting. I was right, he was wrong.

  8. #8
    Regular Member XDFDE45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    823
    Quote Originally Posted by LaBomba View Post
    Are people really planning to go to this meeting looking for confrontation? I honestly can't tell if you're joking or not.
    I am not going looking for a confrontation but plan to correct any mistakes that might be put out. As we all know and have seen pols and LEO can let their personal views get the better of them. I'm hoping that is not the case but better to give people the RIGHT information than false information.
    Wisconsin Carry Member
    My Castle Doctrine Law

    Don't wish ill upon your enemy......plan it.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Tosa
    Posts
    118
    Quote Originally Posted by XDFDE45 View Post
    I am not going looking for a confrontation but plan to correct any mistakes that might be put out. As we all know and have seen pols and LEO can let their personal views get the better of them. I'm hoping that is not the case but better to give people the RIGHT information than false information.
    +1000!

  10. #10
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in front of my computer, WI
    Posts
    4,426

    Here's what I've learned this morning...

    The building is owned by the county, so under 941.235 we still have to ask permission until 01NOV.
    I called the sheriff's office & was told to email him [sheriff@milwcty.com].
    This is what I'm sending... we'll see what, if any, response he gives.
    Feel free to borrow, but please re-word so it sounds different.


    Sheriff Clarke,

    I am a citizen residing in Milwaukee County & I am planning to attend a town hall (sponsored by state Senator Carpenter) this Friday afternoon at the Wilson Park Senior Center, which is owned by Milwaukee County.

    The subject of the meeting is Act 35, our new concealed carry law.
    Under that law, starting 01NOV (or as soon thereafter as DOJ will issue permits) I will be able lawfully to carry a pistol for my own protection in a taxpayer-owned building such as the senior center.

    Until then, state law 941.235 (2) says that I must beg permission from a sheriff or chief of police to do the same act. (See quote of law below.)

    So I am writing you to get permission peacefully to exercise my right to bear arms. Boy, that sticks in my craw!

    Bear in mind that if I intended harm, I would not alert anyone. I would not ask permission. I would not be concerned with what the law says. But since I am a mostly law-abiding person (I admit to being a bit happy on the throttle of a motorcycle from time to time), I am trying to do what the law requires.

    The purpose of the meeting is to discuss lawfully-armed citizens. It only makes sense that at least some citizens who are there should be lawfully armed.

    Since the time is short, please reply by email, so I can print it out & carry it to forestall any potential hassles.

    [closing]


    941.235 Carrying firearm in public building.
    (1) Any person who goes armed with a firearm in any building owned or leased by the state or any political subdivision of the state is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.

    (2) This section does not apply to peace officers or armed forces or military personnel who go armed in the line of duty or to any person duly authorized by the chief of police of any city, village or town, the chief of the capitol police, or the sheriff of any county to possess a firearm in any building under sub. (1).
    Last edited by MKEgal; 10-04-2011 at 12:27 PM.

  11. #11
    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Cassville Area -Twelve Miles From Anything, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    1,565
    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    ....
    If it is a criminal empowerment zone, I might make a point by OCing an orange gun & maybe ccing an obvious toy pistol. Would also point out to any scaredy-pants in attendance that those could just as easily have been real, if I weren't a LAC....
    Isn't there a prohibition (statute # escapes me) on carrying replica guns, toys or not?
    Dave
    45ACP-For when you care enough to send the very best-
    Fight for "Stand Your Ground " legislation!

    WI DA Gerald R. Fox:
    "These so-called 'public safety' laws only put decent law-abiding citizens at a dangerous disadvantage when it comes to their personal safety, and I for one am glad that this decades-long era of defective thinking on gun issues is over..."

    Remember: Don't make old People mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to piss us off.

  12. #12
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    SE, WI
    Posts
    7,318
    Quote Originally Posted by davegran View Post
    Isn't there a prohibition (statute # escapes me) on carrying replica guns, toys or not?

    941.2965
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  13. #13
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in front of my computer, WI
    Posts
    4,426
    Quote Originally Posted by LaBomba
    A mid-day Town Hall there is convenient for seniors who are already on site, and that's the target audience
    I understood that the target audience was business owners who were concerned about the hordes of concealed carriers they want to refuse entry, & people who want to know how to tell their friends they're no longer welcome to visit.

    I may be thoroughly surprised that there are seniors (& others) in attendance who want to get a cc permit, & this doesn't degenerate into another episode of "the sky is falling".
    That'd be nice.

    Are people really planning to go to this meeting looking for confrontation? I honestly can't tell if you're joking or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by XDFDE45
    I am not going looking for a confrontation but plan to correct any mistakes that might be put out.
    Ditto.
    If allowed to carry, I will.
    If not, I'll carry plastic (orange, obviously fake) pistols to silently complain.

    Interesting... I've gotten 3 'automated' confirmations that my email to the Sheriff was received:
    11:34, 13:18, 15:24
    The last 2 say "this message has been forwarded". Wonder to & from whom, & why? The gal answering the phone for the dep't assured me that that was his email & he reads it himself.

    Wonder if the doors to the senior center will look different Friday than they did this morning?

    ETA: 05OCT, & my email has been forwarded a total of 5 times... once after I got the answer I'll post below.
    I'm considering giving the email exchange to some reporters.
    Show that the Sheriff isn't really for the "little people", & his minions don't understand the law.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 10-05-2011 at 11:09 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by MLK, Jr
    The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort & convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge & controversy.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie
    Citizenship is a verb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 31:17
    She dresses herself with strength and makes her arms strong.

  14. #14
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in front of my computer, WI
    Posts
    4,426
    Quote Originally Posted by davegran
    Isn't there a prohibition (statute # escapes me) on carrying replica guns, toys or not?
    As Joe pointed out, there is.
    And I knew about it, which is why I twice mentioned them being obviously fake:
    (1) In this section, "facsimile firearm" means any replica, toy, starter pistol or other object that bears a reasonable resemblance to or that reasonably can be perceived to be an actual firearm. "Facsimile firearm" does not include any actual firearm.

    (2) No person may carry or display a facsimile firearm in a manner that could reasonably be expected to alarm, intimidate, threaten or terrify another person. Whoever violates this section is subject to a Class C forfeiture.
    It has the usual outs for LEO & military in the performance of official duties, & people on their own property.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Tosa
    Posts
    118
    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    I understood that the target audience was business owners who were concerned about the hordes of concealed carriers they want to refuse entry, & people who want to know how to tell their friends they're no longer welcome to visit.
    I assumed seniors were the target audience because it's being held at a senior center, and businesses aren't a core constituency for this particular Senator. Sounds like you have different info, so I stand corrected.

    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    I may be thoroughly surprised that there are seniors (& others) in attendance who want to get a cc permit, & this doesn't degenerate into another episode of "the sky is falling".
    That'd be nice.
    Why wouldn't seniors be pro 2a? Consider:

    • a relatively high percentage of senior males grew up with guns, meaning that many senior females grew up with guns in the household
    • Many senior men & women served in the military, protecting rights including 2a rights
    • Seniors consistently rank crime a top issue


    I think a little pre-emptive speech early in the session, in the guise of asking a question, could rouse the audience to support Act 35. That would be big news for the Senator, who relies on the senior vote.

  16. #16
    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Cassville Area -Twelve Miles From Anything, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    1,565

    Grey Power!!

    Quote Originally Posted by LaBomba View Post
    ....
    I think a little pre-emptive speech early in the session, in the guise of asking a question, could rouse the audience to support Act 35. That would be big news for the Senator, who relies on the senior vote.
    This is a GREAT idea! Either that or go to the senior center the day before the meeting and pass out informational fliers.
    Dave
    45ACP-For when you care enough to send the very best-
    Fight for "Stand Your Ground " legislation!

    WI DA Gerald R. Fox:
    "These so-called 'public safety' laws only put decent law-abiding citizens at a dangerous disadvantage when it comes to their personal safety, and I for one am glad that this decades-long era of defective thinking on gun issues is over..."

    Remember: Don't make old People mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to piss us off.

  17. #17
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in front of my computer, WI
    Posts
    4,426

    response from the Sheriff's flunky

    From: Edward.Bailey@milwcnty.com

    Ms. S:

    The statute that you are referencing 941.235 Carrying firearm in public building is very specific:

    (1) Any person who goes armed with a firearm in any building owned or leased by the state or any political subdivision of the state is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.
    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
    (a) Peace officers or armed forces or military personnel who go armed in the line of duty or to any person duly authorized by the chief of police of any city, village or town, the chief of the capitol police, or the sheriff of any county to possess a firearm in any building under sub. (1). Notwithstanding s. 939.22 (22), for purposes of this paragraph, peace officer does not include a commission warden who is not a state−certified commission warden.
    (c) A qualified out−of−state law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 941.23 (1) (g), to whom s. 941.23 (2) (b) 1. to 3. applies.
    (d) A former officer, as defined in s. 941.23 (1) (c), to whom s. 941.23 (2) (c) 1. to 7. applies.
    (e) A licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (d), or an out−of−state licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (g).

    As you can see, the language that you reference, "or to any person duly authorized by the chief of police of any city, village or town, the chief of the capitol police, or the sheriff of any county" is a portion of Sub A, which in totality refers to law enforcement officers, or those being deputed to a law enforcement function by a chief executive. As neither of these situations applies to you, you will need to wait until Nov. 1, and the changes in law that are upcoming (and which Sheriff Clarke supported in Madison through committee testimony!) to go about armed.

    Also, the statute you are referencing (941.235) is building specific...You would still be in conflict with 941.23 (CCW) until the new law goes into effect.

    Interestingly, I do note this: I see that a lot of groups are rushing to specifically prohibit the concealed carry of weapons in "their" buildings...And I expect that before the dust settles the senior centers will well be included in that group.

    Sorry, but no authorization is granted.


    Approved:

    Inspector Edward H. Bailey
    Adjutant to Sheriff Clarke
    Milwaukee County Sheriff's Office
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
    FBINA 223
    "Expect The Best"
    #####
    I'll put my response in another post.

  18. #18
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in front of my computer, WI
    Posts
    4,426
    I also bcc'd this to David.Clarke@milwcnty.com
    It hasn't bounced, so I'm thinking that's his real email.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Bailey
    > 941.235 Carrying firearm in public building is very specific:
    Yes, it is. I've read it many times.
    I also understand that _OR_ indicates the beginning of a separate group or thought. In the case under discussion:

    > Peace officers
    > or
    > armed forces
    > or
    > military personnel who go armed in the line of duty
    > or to any person duly authorized by ...the sheriff ...

    gives us 4 groups of people who are authorized.
    Only the normal citizens have to beg permission.
    And please note that ANY chief of police or sheriff can give that permission. There's no restriction to a head LEO being in WI, or in the county or city where the building stands.
    So he doesn't understand what the law says about the Sheriff giving permission...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Bailey
    > refers to law enforcement officers, or those being deputed to a law enforcement
    > function by a chief executive. As neither of these situations applies to you, you
    > will need to wait until Nov. 1, and the changes in law that are upcoming (and
    > which Sheriff Clarke supported in Madison through committee testimony!) to go
    > about armed.
    And he doesn't understand what the law says about carrying openly...
    (I see a need for education.)

    First, the law says nothing about the "any person" acting (or expecting to act, or being expected to act) in a law enforcement function.
    Any means any.

    Second, I was at the hearing in Madison, & was flabbergasted when Sheriff Clarke spoke in favor of citizens being armed for our own protection, & admitted that LEO can't protect everyone all the time.
    He did, however, seem to support a more rights-restrictive method of licensing. I still don't understand how registering the good people will do anything to stop the bad ones. (By the time an officer can even ask for a permit, if the person they're approaching is intent on murder the officer would already be shot.)

    Third, I don't have to wait to "go about armed". I already do, lawfully carrying openly. As I said before, I tend to be law-abiding, which is why I've done what the law requires and begged permission to exercise a right which is protected by the Constitutions of both the country & state.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Bailey
    > You would still be in conflict with 941.23 (CCW) until the new law goes into effect.
    Only if I weren't carrying openly.
    I'm not ashamed of exercising my rights, so I don't hide my self-defense tool.
    There are situations in which it will be more polite to do so, & in the places which recognize either my right to carry or one of my permits, I have carried concealed.
    And he doesn't understand that OC is currently legal... & will remain so.
    Again, I see the need for some education.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Bailey
    > I see that a lot of groups are rushing to specifically prohibit the concealed carry
    > of weapons. I expect that before the dust settles the senior centers will well be
    > included in that group.
    They can't prohibit concealed 'weapons'. The law doesn't give that option. They may either prohibit or allow, in toto.
    And I hope all their insurance companies understand the new law which only grants immunity from liability to places which do NOT prohibit the lawful carry of self-defense tools. (I've never handled a weapon in my life, & I'm a pistol instructor.)
    Besides, what criminal do you know who would be stopped by a sign, or the threat of a misdemeanor, when he's intent on committing at least one felony?


    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Bailey
    > "Expect The Best"
    I did. Too bad my elected representative didn't come through.
    I'll let people know.

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Appleton, WI
    Posts
    276
    awesome response

  20. #20
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    SE, WI
    Posts
    7,318
    Love it MKEgal!
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  21. #21
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in front of my computer, WI
    Posts
    4,426

    Red face well... don't I feel silly?

    Until about 5 minutes ago, I was thinking that this meeting was today (the 7th).
    Came online to write down the address, & noticed it's NEXT Friday.
    Whew!
    (Though I may be a few minutes late, coming from another meeting, so save me a seat.)
    Will make my planned activities today much less rushed.
    I need less stress...

    ETA:
    Continuing the theme of feeling silly, last night I drew on my cat.
    I'd gone to bed, then heard loud rustling downstairs. Didn't stop when I called out.
    So I took the phone in one hand, the G17 in the other, & went to look down the stairs to see if I could see the troublemaker.

    Turns out the cat took a liking to either the onions in a plastic bag, or the noodles sitting on top of them (hadn't put groceries away), and between the crinkly plastic noodle bag & the crinkly plastic grocery bag, one little cat can make a big noise in a quiet house late at night. She'd dragged the noodle bag a couple feet.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 10-07-2011 at 02:23 AM.

  22. #22
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in front of my computer, WI
    Posts
    4,426
    Bump...
    T minus 3:13 & counting.

    Tim Carpenter's Concealed Carry Town Hall
    Date: Friday, October 14, 2011
    Time: 12:00 Noon - 2:00 PM
    Location: Wilson Park Senior Center
    2601 W Howard Ave.
    Milwaukee

  23. #23
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in front of my computer, WI
    Posts
    4,426
    I was pleasantly surprised.
    The information presented was mostly accurate & unbiased,
    though there were a few places/topics where both the chief & lawyer (ADA) avoided a direct answer.

    And it seemed that the vast majority of people there were in favor of self-protection. Some wanted to force people to take more training, others clearly realized that laws don't stop criminals.
    MANY need to RTFL, both the new cc law & the exisiting laws about self-defense.

    I was annoyed that they broke off almost an hour early (scheduled to go til 2, stopped taking questions about 1:10, going to informal one-on-one or small group chatting). Not that there was a group in the room after us, the janitor just wanted to move all the chairs & lock up.

    It was clear that the lawyer had no personal knowledge of guns, only what she'd learned through work.
    Would tend to skew her perceptions, no?
    She did point out that a courthouse is a prohibited place for normal citizens, but she'd be allowed to carry there. With the little she knows about guns, & as inattentive as she is, I hope she either doesn't carry or gets several levels of training over months before she does.

    And in chatting w/ her afterward, I got the impression that although she kept mentioning being a lawyer for almost 30 years, she doesn't understand criminals & doesn't pay attention.

    I pointed out that I was carrying 2 orange pistols, only one that could be seen (at which point she said she hadn't noticed, even though I was strong side toward her!), & that if I were a criminal intent on harm I could just as easily have walked in with real guns & until I took off my coat nobody would have known.

    To which she replied something like, "and the police who are here would have arrested you."

    How can she have so much experience & still be so naieve?
    A criminal intent on mass murder isn't stopped by the threat of arrest because he generally plans to die in the act.

    She also parroted the case law about a gun openly carried in a car, or lying on a seat, being concealed, even though it's CLEAR that the intent of the legislature was that people are able to carry in their own car with no permit. Asked "what if that were a bag of drugs, would it be plain sight?" & she said "that's different because drugs are illegal".
    Well, currently having an unencased gun in a car is illegal too. Fail.

    Then she started in on the "how do officers know if you're going to harm someone, esp. them?" tack.
    I pointed out that the FBI says that criminals don't carry openly, & she tried to dismiss that as something I'd made up.
    Then I pointed out that permit holders are in trouble with the law less than even off-duty cops, & she again tried to dismiss it.
    I think I'll send her a letter w/ a link to http://gunfacts.info/ and the specific quotes / studies / references that back up what I was telling her.

    One useful bit of info - sometime next week Milwaukee PD is having an informational / training session to tell officers how to deal with lawfully-armed citizens. That info needs to be FOIA'd.

    More idiocy from the lawyer -
    she said that very few officers get shot during traffic stops,
    then when I said that was a good thing, & showed that armed citizens aren't a danger,
    she changed her tune & said that guns are always dangerous & the officer has to decide if the person is going to try to harm someone... plus the "split-second decisions" BS that usually arises.

    She also claimed that the only reason officers weren't shot more frequently by people w/ 'concealed' guns in their cars is because they pull people out of their cars @ gunpoint, throw them on the ground, & handcuff them!


    Did anyone else there get her name? The board was erased before I wrote it down.
    Suppose I could email Sen. Carpenter to ask him...

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Antigo,WI
    Posts
    92
    Sounds like you sparrd with a liberal lawyer. That had to be fun making her look stupid. Glad to hear you got the best of her. A well informed gun owner is dangerous to the liberals, because they don't know how to argue law when the person knows more than they do.
    Last edited by kemo; 10-14-2011 at 06:58 PM.

  25. #25
    Regular Member XDFDE45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    823
    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Did anyone else there get her name? The board was erased before I wrote it down.
    Karen A. Loebel.

    I was also glad to see that the info was fairly accurate. I heard a few people that were sitting next to me spouting the usual "this law is stupid, guns are stupid...." . A lady that was sitting behind me even said that the 2nd amendment should be "amended", meaning gotten rid of . I nicely explained that ALL of the amendments in the Bill of Rights applies to INDIVIDUALS, including that pesky 2nd one .

    Surprisingly no one trotted out the old "the streets will be running red with blood, people will be shot over fender benders, blah blah blah". Although some guy started talking about how in the old west in order to become a civilized society people were required to leave their guns at the edge of town . Not exactly sure what the point of THAT comment was other than maybe people should NOT be allowed to carry guns. If you don't want to fine by me but do NOT try and tell me that I can't.

    The captain of the Greenfield PD was there and he said the GFPD was offering training classes for people who were planning on applying for the ccw permit. He mentioned that he checked with the DOJ and that it would meet the requirements for obtaining a ccw permit. Here's the catch of course. It is $100 for Greenfield residents and $150 for non Greenfield residents . Classes will be 6 hours long and he said that students would be put in make believe situations where they would have to decide if deadly force was warranted using pistols that fire Simunition rounds.
    Wisconsin Carry Member
    My Castle Doctrine Law

    Don't wish ill upon your enemy......plan it.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •