Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 32

Thread: Woman should not use guns!

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    11

    Woman should not use guns!

    www.vpc.org/studies/myth.htm
    This is pretty crazy. It seems like some rapist wrote this so he could victomize women easier.

  2. #2
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,622
    Quote Originally Posted by E46m3 View Post
    www.vpc.org/studies/myth.htm
    This is pretty crazy. It seems like some rapist wrote this so he could victomize women easier.
    What is most egregious is the attempted correlation between the number of women owning/using guns and the number of women harmed by them.

    I submit that the more women that own, carry and are trained the safer those women will be. Those women that do not avail themselves of that opportunity will contribute to the litany of those harmed w/o the benefit of an immediate defense capability.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  3. #3
    Regular Member SovereignAxe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Elizabethton, TN
    Posts
    795
    wtf, this seem like it was written by a high schooler. How do you draw the conclusion that since so few women own guns, that buying one is going to increase the possibility of ketting killed with one. nowhere in there (I'll admit, I just skimmed over it) does it state that these women were killed with their own guns.

    The conclusion makes no sense. The cause and effect are completely unrelated.

    edit: the proper conlusion (and as I see it, the only conclusion) one can draw from the data presented is that gun crimes against women are directly related to them NOT owning guns. also, let's not forget that this was published in 2001, so the data and conclusion is more than 10 years old-and especially old considering the recent real surge in gun ownership of women.
    Last edited by SovereignAxe; 10-01-2011 at 09:07 PM.
    "Anyone worth shooting once is worth shooting twice." -Zeus

    "Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!" - Malcolm Reynolds

    EDC = Walther PPQ 9mm

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    1,929
    I had to stop reading; the ignorance and idiocy made my head hurt worse than a 3 day hang over.

  5. #5
    Regular Member SovereignAxe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Elizabethton, TN
    Posts
    795
    Quote Originally Posted by PistolPackingMomma View Post
    I had to stop reading; the ignorance and idiocy made my head hurt worse than a 3 day hang over.
    lol same. I made it about three paragraphs in and then realized they were misinterpreting the data, skipped down to the conclusion, and then realized the writer doesn't know what they're talking about (or how to interpret data).
    "Anyone worth shooting once is worth shooting twice." -Zeus

    "Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!" - Malcolm Reynolds

    EDC = Walther PPQ 9mm

  6. #6
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    north mason county, Washington, USA
    Posts
    4,381

    well,,,

    It is a report from the,,, VIOLENCE POLICY CENTER,,,, they do not support self defense..

    In 1998, for every time a woman used a handgun to kill a stranger in self-defense, 302 woman were murdered with a handgun.

    302 woman were murdered BECAUSE one woman used a gun for self defense...
    if only that one woman had sacrificed her life to her attacker,,, 302 woman would not have been murdered.

    this kind of logic is more than my brain can handle.

    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Renton, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,201
    Made my brain hurt! It makes absolutely no sense at all. It seems to me that they are actually FOR violence against women since they don't want them to have guns. They would really be shocked if they knew how many women own guns and carry them!
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

    Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Benjamin Franklin

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    11
    I think it's weird how they say "women who killed a stranger in self defense using a handgun" was so low. Maybe this would be because some spineless ***** would crap himself when his helpless (or so he thought) victim pulls out her pink snubby. So they rarely ever have to pull the trigger.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    West Texas
    Posts
    596
    Every woman should have a handgun all the time and ready to use it if necessary!!!

  10. #10
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Mississippi
    Posts
    1,228
    "In 1998, for every time a woman used a handgun to kill in self-defense, 101 women were murdered with a handgun."

    Hey, this quote from the article works against the politically-correct agenda of the writer, and they didn't even have the good sense to realize it.

    Why do I say this?

    Well, the so-called "statistics" the writer mentioned only serves to demonstrate to women just WHY THEY
    NEED to carry a handgun!

  11. #11
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    north mason county, Washington, USA
    Posts
    4,381

    well,,,

    there is an old story about someone slowly clapping their hands in front of a classroom full of young kids.
    as they clapped, they told the kids that every time they clapped, a poor child in africa died from hunger.

    soon, one of the kids said,, well, stop clapping your hands!

    cause and effect are Not always linked.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  12. #12
    Regular Member Fisherman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    45R
    Posts
    160
    Just a ridiculous conclusion. It's like a story I heard a long time ago about a traffic accident. One vehicle had run into another killing the drivers of both cars. One of the drivers happened to have a gun in the car. What did the media say? "More gun related deaths!"

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    6,787
    Well, the brothers Smith's stats are sound, but their conclusions are sheer buffoonery, evident in both the oversized and emoboldened BS, as well as the ridiculous consluion.

    Using the same stats, I arrived at somewhat different conclusions:

    "For all of the promises made on behalf of the self-defense handgun, using a handgun to kill in self-defense is a rare event.5 Looking at both men and women, over the past 20 years, on average only two percent of the homicides committed with handguns in the United States were deemed justifiable or self-defense homicides by civilians. To put it in perspective, more people are struck by lightning each year than use handguns to kill in self-defense."

    Conclusion 1: Since the likelihood of being struck by lightening is less than being killed by a handgun in self-defense, then people shouldn't freak out when they see honest, law-abiding citizens carrying a firearm.

    Conclusion 2: Since it's justifiable self-defense (again unlawful criminal activity) then honest, law-abiding citizens shouldn't have any fear of armed citizens.

    Conclusion 3: Of the 12 women who used a handgun in self-defense, 100% OF THEM LIVED.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  14. #14
    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Navasota, Texas, USA
    Posts
    2,524
    As these numbers reveal, handguns don't offer protection for women, but instead guarantee peril.
    This is where it got too stupid for me to continue. Yeah, really early on.

    The way this sentence should read: "As these numbers reveal, more women should carry handguns for self defense".
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    1,929
    This is why statistics, polls, what have you, are as believable as unicorns. The data may be there; it may be sound, but it can and will be manipulated every which way. At least, that's what my leprechaun bookie tells me.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,797
    I got down to the fourth cite, read the cite information, and had to stop as the "logic" made my head hurt.

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    6,787
    Quote Originally Posted by PistolPackingMomma View Post
    This is why statistics, polls, what have you, are as believable as unicorns.
    There's nothing wrong with statistics. However, when the guy started drawing conclusions, he'd left the fine scientific field of statistics and had begun practicing voodoo magic. If there's a bad name to be had, here, it's his, not statistics.

    The data may be there; it may be sound, but it can and will be manipulated every which way.
    True. However, statistics if fairly rigorous and doesn't allow one to manipulate things. When one does, it's no longer statistics.

    At least, that's what my leprechaun bookie tells me.
    I may have seen him around. Small guy? Dressed in Lincoln green? Ledger tucked greedily beneath his arm?
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    1,929
    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    snip...There's nothing wrong with statistics. However, when the guy started drawing conclusions, he'd left the fine scientific field of statistics and had begun practicing voodoo magic. If there's a bad name to be had, here, it's his, not statistics.
    Perhaps I should rephrase then. I don't necessarily have an issue with statistics, so much as how people (mis)interpret them.

    I may have seen him around. Small guy? Dressed in Lincoln green? Ledger tucked greedily beneath his arm?
    Actually, he looks a bit more like this: he just isn't ripe yet and he drinks a lot, LOL

  19. #19
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Okanogan Highland
    Posts
    2,332
    As a wise old man told me years ago, "no, the figures don't lie, but liers sure can figure"

  20. #20
    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Oklahoma, USA
    Posts
    1,164
    I had to stop when they cited an "unpublished FBI report" ... seriously??? /major fail

    Also, even though I skimmed the rest of the "report" I didn't see any statistics on women who used a gun to protect themselves against a significant other, who were still convicted wrongly due to a strict interpretation of state self defense laws ... another failure to include all relevant data.
    cheers - okboomer
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Lead, follow, or get out of the way

    Exercising my 2A Rights does NOT make me a CRIMINAL! Infringing on the exercise of those rights makes YOU one!

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    6,787
    Quote Originally Posted by PistolPackingMomma View Post
    Perhaps I should rephrase then. I don't necessarily have an issue with statistics, so much as how people (mis)interpret them.
    That works.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    62
    Most women only kill in self-defense and when they do they use the method most available to them at the time. So imagine if a women could not use a firearm, there will be more guys hacked up in their sleep, poisoned, beat with skillets and bats and lets not forget seriously burned by hot grits then beat with a bat or frying pan....guys everywhere would be sleeping with one eye open. And that show "Snapped" would be aired like an episode of "Cops" or "America's Most Wanted" on Fox TV instead of just on the Lifetime channel....

  23. #23
    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Montgomery, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    1,770
    I know I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but the thought occurs to me that we need to support someone taking the Violence Policy Center's propaganda, doing the proper research, and then publishing a strong, as in armor-clad, rebuttal.

    I may be fooling myself, but it would seem to me that an extensively researched, well-written rebuttal just might attract someone willing to publish it.

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    I do think you are fooling yourself. Other folks have re-run VPC data and showed the flaws in the conclusions as opposed to the statistics and nobody cared. VPC does not care. The folks that blindly swallow and regurgitate VPC's party line don't care. The mainstream media don't care (but them they are mainly part of the folks who regurgitate without question). And he pro-gun side already knows the conclusions are skewed to prove a point, as opposed to pointing to proof.

    For my mobey it's better use of resources to make the rebuttals to the press that published their spewings. We may not change a single mind with logic and fact but at least those who do not bother to actually read the data and see if the conclusions are supported will hear that someone challenged those conclusions.

    Keep in mind our fight is not against facts but against emotions. To win that fight we need to win on emotions - even if our emotions are driven by facts and not distortions.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  25. #25
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Rocky River, OH, U.S.A.
    Posts
    2,086
    Gun control: The theory that 110lb women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

    VPC isn't against self-defense.

    They're against EFFECTIVE self-defense that LESSENS the likelihood that the victims, especially women, will be harmed and that the crime will be successfully carried out.

    They don't mind if a woman "defends" herself, so long as the attempt fails and she's seriously injured or killed in the process.

    They consider a serious beating "foreplay".

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •