Home defense scenarios

j4l · Oct 5, 2011

Agreed on the time/distance thing. The alarms, dogs, lights,cameras, etc. are:

1) (hopefully) a deterrent to most folks inclined to break in.

2) When that fails, though, they provide you the "early warning" that can make a huge differernce between having some kind of time to prepare and react, and being taken by total surprise.

Another thing- i didnt read all of the replies, so forgive me if repeating something- dry-firing. Snap -caps and the like, and if you can get them, the little laser-training modules- are great training aids, without having to expend ammo. And you can do them safely within the home. (they of course do not prepare you for the bang, muzzle-blast/flash of firing in confined spaces and in the dark, but..)
At the very least they provide a good means of practicing the motor-skills (which are perishable skills) for quick-drawing and getting that all-important 1st shot off. They are also good for practicing the things you will NOT be able to do at any firing range vs. stationary, paper targets- the ability to practice drawing and firing from odd or awkward positions- ie: lying on the couch/bed, sitting at a table, etc.

RPGamingGirl · Oct 5, 2011

I'm really glad to see a post like this and read through the responses. Every situation is different, every house is different, and every neighborhood is different, but here's what i would do out in rural SW Missouri:

Scenario 1: It's daytime, my husband is asleep upstairs (or gone) and I am downstairs with our 4 month old son. An intruder starts forcing his way into my home.

My husband works nights and is almost always asleep during the bulk of the day. What i would do, is make sure the baby is in the safest place possible (on the floor, behind the cover of something big like a couch if you feel like you have time), chamber a round, and fire as soon as i'm in line of sight of the intruder, assuming it's not a child. Anything else is fair game. Maybe it's a lost, drunk neighbor and you've just done harm to someone that didn't intend to hurt you, but you cannot take that chance. If someone's forcing their way into your home, you have to assume they're willing and able to hurt you.

Scenario 2: We are both home, and on the same level of the house. An intruder breaks in.

If my husband and i are both aware of the situation and in the same level of the house, i would grab the kids and make sure they were low and behind cover. I hate to be sexist or presumptuous, but even the most educated and enlightened man, pumped full of adrenaline and uncertainty, will have trouble allowing his wife to do something dangerous if he thinks he can stop her. Multiply that exponentially if there are kids in the house. It's better to just anticipate that and make yourself and the kids scarce--besides, if God Forbid something happened to the kids while you were backing up your husband, there's not a mother alive that could forgive herself. Better to avoid that. I would stay in the "safe" room with the kids until my husband (or some sort of third party i could trust) came to tell me all is clear. Do not leave the kids if you hear gunshots. Do not leave the kids if it's suddenly quiet. But by all means, be ready to shoot anything that comes through the door or window without announcing itself as your husband or local law enforcement (and even then, demand to see identification).

Scenario 3: It's nighttime, my husband is gone, and I hear an intruder break in.

Having a husband that works the night shift, this is sort of my go-to paranoid delusion, so i think about it constantly. In fact, i dream about it pretty much constantly. First things first, you have to think about where the baby is. Does he sleep with you? If so, you can place him somewhere (relatively) safe, and then assess the situation and go chasing after bad guys if it seems appropriate. If the baby is in another room, and you know where the intruder is, stop the intruder first, then grab the baby and get somewhere behind cover in case the intruder wasn't alone. If you don't know where the intruder is, make sure it ISN'T the nursery, then prepare to stand your ground.

My situation is a little different; my kids are older (between 5 and 10), and understand that if they hear gunshots, they are to get low and not move until we tell them to. They can also scream for help, so i've got to trust my instincts and assess the situation as i go.

Scenario 4: I come home with my son, and enter upon an intruder in the act.

Leave! Get a safe distance from the house and call for help. You should only engage an intruder if you're already inside and possibly in danger. There's no reason to put yourself in danger, so if the bad guy is not between you and the door, grab the baby and run! If your husband is home by himself, think good thoughts and hope he can protect himself. He will do much better if he doesn't have to worry about you and your son too.

Verd · Oct 6, 2011

I don't think i need to repeat what others upthread have said, but there are a few things I would like to make mention of.

If you have any thought of the possibility that you might have to fire a gun with your child present, make sure to get a dedicated pair of ear protection for the kid and have it with you as often as you keep your gun on you. You might not have any time to put it on your child, but if you do, you'll be glad to have it. You know, just in case.

Secondly, since you prefer to shoot with both hands and I am assuming that you do not want to leave your child while you take care of the BG, you might want to look into and invest into a baby sling. My wife, as well as I, used them with our kids and they worked great. Keep the kid right up against you and safe, while letting you use both arms without a disadvantage. Or perhaps one of those baby backpack things, since you don't really want your kid be between you and the BG like a sling woutl put them, while a baby backpack would give your child that much more protection.

Wolfgang1952 · Oct 6, 2011

PistolPackingMomma said:
Since my husband is allergic to dogs, we can't really go that route.

Welcome to the forum. I know you said your husband is allergic to dogs. But have you looked into Standard Poodles. They are very smart and train well and they don’t shed like normal Dogs do

Haz. · Oct 6, 2011

Down Under, if one is a person of good character, has undergone all the checks and balances and has the apropriate licences and is fortunate enough to have firearms in the home, which must by law be locked up in a gun safe and the ammunition must by law be locked in a seperate container, and unless the intruder can be persuaded to wait a minute or two whilst one gets the firearm out of the safe, unlocks the separate ammunition container, loads the firearm, and returns to the room the intruder is breaking into, one may as well dial a Pizza or the Ambulance, for I hear they often arrive much quicker than police who are nine time out of ten busy attending to another matter?

skidmark · Oct 7, 2011

Haz -

That seems to reflect the basic differences in the founding of our two countries.

Your was founded by a bunch of nobles run off the home island for various social inproprieties and other folks who figured out how to make money by controling the labor of others who were not permitted any rights. And the place was pretty much populated with the criminal dregs and other cast-offs of the home island.

Ours, on the other hand, was founded by a bunch of near-anarchist criminals and murders who thought committing high treason was the best thing they could do for themselves. They were more concerned with ensuring everybody (well, at the start it was almost everybody) had a few basic rights that allowed them to screw over their fellow man without the interference of the government (capitalism and free trade by another description). And most importantly, instead of taking whatever dregs and cast-offs te home island saw fit to send us, we advertised for the dregs and cast-offs of everywhere else that were smart enough to see the opportunity to make something of themself because of that lack of government interference in screwing over the next guy. It also helped that we had a continent that could actually support folks who wanted to get away from the population centers and all the rule-imposing that was going on there.

You are now going through what was fictionalized as our Wild West, with outlaw bands running amuck and the citizens in need of a Marshall to come and beat law and order into the place. If it makes you feel any better, we are stuck with the rise of what wants to be an aristocracy (and no, I'm not talking just about our current administration) and a whole bunch of folks who seem to want to go back to being serfs rather than risk anything to stand on their own.

Just remember that in our fictionalized Wild West there were never enough heroic Marshalls to go around. Folks had to finally standup and say we are going to take care of ourselves. Most of the time they did it in a civilized manner that not only preserved but enhanced the rule of law. Stay strong and keep up the fight as long as you can.

stay safe.

BaconMan · Oct 7, 2011

RPGamingGirl said:
I'm really glad to see a post like this and read through the responses. Every situation is different, every house is different, and every neighborhood is different, but here's what i would do out in rural SW Missouri:

Scenario 1: It's daytime, my husband is asleep upstairs (or gone) and I am downstairs with our 4 month old son. An intruder starts forcing his way into my home.

My husband works nights and is almost always asleep during the bulk of the day. What i would do, is make sure the baby is in the safest place possible (on the floor, behind the cover of something big like a couch if you feel like you have time), chamber a round, and fire as soon as i'm in line of sight of the intruder, assuming it's not a child. Anything else is fair game. Maybe it's a lost, drunk neighbor and you've just done harm to someone that didn't intend to hurt you, but you cannot take that chance. If someone's forcing their way into your home, you have to assume they're willing and able to hurt you.

Scenario 2: We are both home, and on the same level of the house. An intruder breaks in.

If my husband and i are both aware of the situation and in the same level of the house, i would grab the kids and make sure they were low and behind cover. I hate to be sexist or presumptuous, but even the most educated and enlightened man, pumped full of adrenaline and uncertainty, will have trouble allowing his wife to do something dangerous if he thinks he can stop her. Multiply that exponentially if there are kids in the house. It's better to just anticipate that and make yourself and the kids scarce--besides, if God Forbid something happened to the kids while you were backing up your husband, there's not a mother alive that could forgive herself. Better to avoid that. I would stay in the "safe" room with the kids until my husband (or some sort of third party i could trust) came to tell me all is clear. Do not leave the kids if you hear gunshots. Do not leave the kids if it's suddenly quiet. But by all means, be ready to shoot anything that comes through the door or window without announcing itself as your husband or local law enforcement (and even then, demand to see identification).

Scenario 3: It's nighttime, my husband is gone, and I hear an intruder break in.

Having a husband that works the night shift, this is sort of my go-to paranoid delusion, so i think about it constantly. In fact, i dream about it pretty much constantly. First things first, you have to think about where the baby is. Does he sleep with you? If so, you can place him somewhere (relatively) safe, and then assess the situation and go chasing after bad guys if it seems appropriate. If the baby is in another room, and you know where the intruder is, stop the intruder first, then grab the baby and get somewhere behind cover in case the intruder wasn't alone. If you don't know where the intruder is, make sure it ISN'T the nursery, then prepare to stand your ground.

My situation is a little different; my kids are older (between 5 and 10), and understand that if they hear gunshots, they are to get low and not move until we tell them to. They can also scream for help, so i've got to trust my instincts and assess the situation as i go.

Scenario 4: I come home with my son, and enter upon an intruder in the act.

Leave! Get a safe distance from the house and call for help. You should only engage an intruder if you're already inside and possibly in danger. There's no reason to put yourself in danger, so if the bad guy is not between you and the door, grab the baby and run! If your husband is home by himself, think good thoughts and hope he can protect himself. He will do much better if he doesn't have to worry about you and your son too.

Excellent post!!!!! Especially the last comment...as a husband, if I know my family is safely away, I can focus on the intruder the way the they should be dealt with. In the event the wife is home with the husband, she is the last line of defense for the children and the husband should be the first line. If a wife is home alone, she has to gather the child or children and put them in a safe place and call for help. If a wife walks in on an intruder, get out to a neighbor's home and call for help. As a husband, I will defend if the family is in the home...I would rather have the intruder leave and consider attacking if I am alone. As a husband...whoa to any intruder that enters a man's castle and that man has intentions of keeping his family safe at all costs and by any means necessary!!!

Haz. · Oct 7, 2011

skidmark said:
Haz -

That seems to reflect the basic differences in the founding of our two countries.

Your was founded by a bunch of nobles run off the home island for various social inproprieties and other folks who figured out how to make money by controling the labor of others who were not permitted any rights. And the place was pretty much populated with the criminal dregs and other cast-offs of the home island.

Ours, on the other hand, was founded by a bunch of near-anarchist criminals and murders who thought committing high treason was the best thing they could do for themselves. They were more concerned with ensuring everybody (well, at the start it was almost everybody) had a few basic rights that allowed them to screw over their fellow man without the interference of the government (capitalism and free trade by another description). And most importantly, instead of taking whatever dregs and cast-offs te home island saw fit to send us, we advertised for the dregs and cast-offs of everywhere else that were smart enough to see the opportunity to make something of themself because of that lack of government interference in screwing over the next guy. It also helped that we had a continent that could actually support folks who wanted to get away from the population centers and all the rule-imposing that was going on there.

You are now going through what was fictionalized as our Wild West, with outlaw bands running amuck and the citizens in need of a Marshall to come and beat law and order into the place. If it makes you feel any better, we are stuck with the rise of what wants to be an aristocracy (and no, I'm not talking just about our current administration) and a whole bunch of folks who seem to want to go back to being serfs rather than risk anything to stand on their own.

Just remember that in our fictionalized Wild West there were never enough heroic Marshalls to go around. Folks had to finally standup and say we are going to take care of ourselves. Most of the time they did it in a civilized manner that not only preserved but enhanced the rule of law. Stay strong and keep up the fight as long as you can.

stay safe.

Thanks skidmark.

I will continue unebated. Unfortunately we now have brainwashed kids growing up and entering society, half not caring about anything, anyone or the law, and the other when its suggested we arm ourselves and defend ourselves cry, "We dont want to become like America?" Cheers, Haz.

Oramac · Oct 7, 2011

I didn't read the whole thread, so I apologize if I repeat something.

Just a few bullet points that I think are very important:

- Train with your husband. Just talking about it isn't enough, imo. Actually doing your plan, together, will help quite a bit.

- Know the layout of your home in exquisite detail. I don't just mean which room leads to which, but things like which walls can you shoot through? (generally interior walls can be shot through with only minor diminishing returns) Do you have mirrors or things like mirrors (reflective refrigerator door, for example) in strategic places? Are the walls of your safe room reinforced? Or should they be? (Could be a double edged sword, so to speak.) What are your sightlines like between floors? What things would make good cover? Bad cover? If you have to exit, which ones are the most efficient? Once you exit, where do you go from there?

- If you have to fire, what do you do afterwords?

- Most important of all: IMPROVISE!! Old cliche is: no plan ever survives contact with the enemy.

hermannr · Oct 7, 2011

Being old, with no children at home anymore, my wife is a good shot, but ill so I cannot count on her for backup (consider you husband is wounded)

First, normal door locks and dead bolts will stop no-one for than a couple seconds. Your dead bolt has to extend into a structural member, and you also need re-enforced hinges. That will slow the determined intruder maybe 30 seconds, rather than 3 seconds.

So what is necessary...more time...easiest way to get that is a small security camera hidden at each possible entrance. The monitor(s) should be where you spend the most time. Outside motion sensor to trigger inside and outside lights help too. The inside lights allert you, and also make it look like someone is home when no-one is home, and the outside lights so you can see who is near the various entrances, and which entrance. An intercom so you can answer the door without opening it helps too.

These are the preliminarys that should help keep you from ever needing your weapon by keeping the BG out in the first place.

So, now, the BG is not detured and still is trying to break in? Well, for one thing, you rest assured if someone is trying to break past your early warning system, they are probably pretty dangerous, and becasue of the security camara(s), you should know exactly what to expect...plan for that based on your personal residence. None of this stuff is worth anything if you never plan on using it.

Do yourself a really big favor, ear protection for everyone, that you can get to in 30 sec or less. Especially for the younger ones, but you need them too.

PistolPackingMomma · Oct 9, 2011

Thanks everyone for your feedback! There's been a lot of really helpful ideas and advice. My next step is to think about what steps we want to take and how to go about implementing them. Momma's got some homework to do, lol!

Trent91 · Oct 10, 2011

Haz. said:
Down Under, if one is a person of good character, has undergone all the checks and balances and has the apropriate licences and is fortunate enough to have firearms in the home, which must by law be locked up in a gun safe and the ammunition must by law be locked in a seperate container, and unless the intruder can be persuaded to wait a minute or two whilst one gets the firearm out of the safe, unlocks the separate ammunition container, loads the firearm, and returns to the room the intruder is breaking into, one may as well dial a Pizza or the Ambulance, for I hear they often arrive much quicker than police who are nine time out of ten busy attending to another matter?

Always thought I wanted to live in Austrailia.. nevermind... (haha).

since9 · Oct 10, 2011

PistolPackingMomma said:
I don't expect any one answer to be the ultimate solution; just looking for different perspectives from other people that might think of something I haven't. The more advice and ideas I can learn from, the better prepared I'll be in making my own plan

You are one smart lady.

RPGamingGirl · Oct 10, 2011

Verd said:
Secondly, since you prefer to shoot with both hands and I am assuming that you do not want to leave your child while you take care of the BG, you might want to look into and invest into a baby sling. My wife, as well as I, used them with our kids and they worked great. Keep the kid right up against you and safe, while letting you use both arms without a disadvantage. Or perhaps one of those baby backpack things, since you don't really want your kid be between you and the BG like a sling woutl put them, while a baby backpack would give your child that much more protection.

Doh! I haven't had babies around in so long i forgot! Back in the day, I used a carrier called a mei tai (quick google search will give you lots of sites to buy from, instructions to make your own, and instructions with diagrams for use). With some practice you can use something like that (there are lots of different types; try googling "Babywearing") to get Baby onto your back pretty quick, have him close, and have one less thing to think about.

BaconMan said:
In the event the wife is home with the husband, she is the last line of defense for the children and the husband should be the first line.

Agreed 100%. Thanks for putting it a little more eloquently!

As much as i want my husband to rely on me as much as i rely on him, and want things to be equal all around, i think this is the natural way of things.

frommycolddeadhands · Oct 10, 2011

Concepts vs Planning

PistolPackingMomma said:
My husband and I both carry every day, especially around the house.
I'm not asking for anyone's secrets here, just some advice, tips, opinions or suggestions. I want to be prepared, and being a gun owner is only half of that goal.

Scenario 1: It's daytime, my husband is asleep upstairs (or gone) and I am downstairs with our 4 month old son. An intruder starts forcing his way into my home.

Scenario 2: We are both home, and on the same level of the house. An intruder breaks in.

Scenario 3: It's nighttime, my husband is gone, and I hear an intruder break in.

Scenario 4: I come home with my son, and enter upon an intruder in the act.

It's already been said a few times, but the layout of your house makes a big difference in the details of your emergency planning. For the most part me and mine usually keep to an Alamo and Calvary type game plan. If we KNOW that someone is breaking in, we hole up in our bedroom like it's the Alamo, and then we call the calvary (cops). Since we know that the bedroom is likely where we'll be at o-dark-thirty it makes sense to arm ourselves and stay there. We both take our cell phones into the bedroom with us at night, and each side of the bed has a nightstand with a firearm, reloads, and flashlight.

When we have kids in the house (nephews/nieces) the plan changes. We grab gun/phone/flashlight and move to the yougest child's room (thataway they don't have to move to us).

If there is a "weird noise" that may or may not be a threat, the wife/kids hole up in the room and I go solo to investigate if I need to. As a general rule of thumb, I don't leave the house to investigate outside noises. If the doors are locked and I hear a possible 'prowler' then the door is going to stay locked and the cops can earn their pay by coming out to my house and having a looksee.

One big thing that I didn't see anyone else touch upon was having code words. When I leave my wife alone in the bedroom, and close the door behind me, how does she know if the next person to open that door is me or a bad guy? This is very important, seeing as how she's going to have a gun trained dead center of that rectangular portal until everything is determined safe. She was worried at one point that she would get scared, and when I opened the door to return to the bedroom that she'd fire the gun- thinking I was an intruder.

The solution was a simple code word. When she's got the gun trained on the door I basically announce myself using a code word. Then she lets me know that she heard me and stops aiming the gun at the door. THEN I walk into the room. Simple but effective.

Now, for your scenarios:

Scenario 1: Grab kid, gun, and phone (in that order) and get to a safe room as quick as you can. Preferably the room your hubby is sleeping in. Call 9-1-1. Stay holed up, defend yourself as needed. Don't go out to pick a fight with a guy who's breaking down your door.

Scenario 2: If you're upstairs, I would recommend the wife retreat to the bedroom and call 9-1-1. Hubby can post himself in the hallway or top of the stairs if it is a decent chokepoint. Either that or the hubby can retreat with you into the bedroom. The best action is going to depend upon the layout of your house. Don't go downstairs to tangle with the intruder. Sit, talk to the 9-1-1 operator, and keep your kid safe.

If your downstairs and the intruder is upstairs, get your hubby and your kid and leave. I'd recommend going across the street to a neighbors house or someplace like that. Call the cops on your cell phone or a neighbors phone. You can watch your house to get a look (or photo and video with cell phones these days) at the intruder if he leaves before the cops get there and will be able to identify him when they catch him later.

Scenario 3: Get kid and hole up in safe room. 9-1-1. Gun at ready. Stay put

Scenario 4: Fight if you must, leave if you can, dial 9-1-1, watch house if you can do so safely, let cops clear the house before you go back in.

PistolPackingMomma · Oct 10, 2011

since9 said:
You are one smart lady.

Thanks

RPGamingGirl said:
Doh! I haven't had babies around in so long i forgot! Back in the day, I used a carrier called a mei tai (quick google search will give you lots of sites to buy from, instructions to make your own, and instructions with diagrams for use). With some practice you can use something like that (there are lots of different types; try googling "Babywearing") to get Baby onto your back pretty quick, have him close, and have one less thing to think about.

Agreed 100%. Thanks for putting it a little more eloquently!

As much as i want my husband to rely on me as much as i rely on him, and want things to be equal all around, i think this is the natural way of things.

I have a moby wrap that I put him in sometimes, but it's definitely not a quick access thing. I'll research the carriers you mentioned

frommycolddeadhands said:
It's already been said a few times, but the layout of your house makes a big difference in the details of your emergency planning. For the most part me and mine usually keep to an Alamo and Calvary type game plan. If we KNOW that someone is breaking in, we hole up in our bedroom like it's the Alamo, and then we call the calvary (cops). Since we know that the bedroom is likely where we'll be at o-dark-thirty it makes sense to arm ourselves and stay there. We both take our cell phones into the bedroom with us at night, and each side of the bed has a nightstand with a firearm, reloads, and flashlight.

When we have kids in the house (nephews/nieces) the plan changes. We grab gun/phone/flashlight and move to the yougest child's room (thataway they don't have to move to us).

If there is a "weird noise" that may or may not be a threat, the wife/kids hole up in the room and I go solo to investigate if I need to. As a general rule of thumb, I don't leave the house to investigate outside noises. If the doors are locked and I hear a possible 'prowler' then the door is going to stay locked and the cops can earn their pay by coming out to my house and having a looksee.

One big thing that I didn't see anyone else touch upon was having code words. When I leave my wife alone in the bedroom, and close the door behind me, how does she know if the next person to open that door is me or a bad guy? This is very important, seeing as how she's going to have a gun trained dead center of that rectangular portal until everything is determined safe. She was worried at one point that she would get scared, and when I opened the door to return to the bedroom that she'd fire the gun- thinking I was an intruder.

The solution was a simple code word. When she's got the gun trained on the door I basically announce myself using a code word. Then she lets me know that she heard me and stops aiming the gun at the door. THEN I walk into the room. Simple but effective.

Now, for your scenarios:

Scenario 1: Grab kid, gun, and phone (in that order) and get to a safe room as quick as you can. Preferably the room your hubby is sleeping in. Call 9-1-1. Stay holed up, defend yourself as needed. Don't go out to pick a fight with a guy who's breaking down your door.

Scenario 2: If you're upstairs, I would recommend the wife retreat to the bedroom and call 9-1-1. Hubby can post himself in the hallway or top of the stairs if it is a decent chokepoint. Either that or the hubby can retreat with you into the bedroom. The best action is going to depend upon the layout of your house. Don't go downstairs to tangle with the intruder. Sit, talk to the 9-1-1 operator, and keep your kid safe.

If your downstairs and the intruder is upstairs, get your hubby and your kid and leave. I'd recommend going across the street to a neighbors house or someplace like that. Call the cops on your cell phone or a neighbors phone. You can watch your house to get a look (or photo and video with cell phones these days) at the intruder if he leaves before the cops get there and will be able to identify him when they catch him later.

Scenario 3: Get kid and hole up in safe room. 9-1-1. Gun at ready. Stay put

Scenario 4: Fight if you must, leave if you can, dial 9-1-1, watch house if you can do so safely, let cops clear the house before you go back in.

See, I never thought about the code words. Excellent idea!!!

Home defense scenarios

j4l

Regular Member

RPGamingGirl

Regular Member

Verd

Campaign Veteran

Wolfgang1952

Regular Member

Haz.

Regular Member

skidmark

Campaign Veteran

BaconMan

Regular Member

Haz.

Regular Member

Oramac

Regular Member

hermannr

Regular Member

PistolPackingMomma

Regular Member

Trent91

Regular Member

since9

Campaign Veteran

RPGamingGirl

Regular Member

frommycolddeadhands

Regular Member

PistolPackingMomma

Regular Member