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Thread: Hartford paperwork finally obtained!

  1. #1
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    Hartford paperwork finally obtained!

    OK, here's the deal.

    I wrote an almost 1,400 word post on the issue on my site. If you just want to look at the app, go to the "town by town" page. I put notes from my discussions in the actual post.

    If anyone wants to critique the process for denying the town extra info and what to do, please go ahead. I'm not saying I'm the end all, be all authority. However, I have learned a lot of scary stuff in this process.

    This, by far, is the worst town in the state as far as pistol permit process goes. I can see why they wanted to keep this paperwork from me.

    http://ctpistolpermitissues.com/2011...-in-the-study/

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    OK, here's the deal.

    I wrote an almost 1,400 word post on the issue on my site. If you just want to look at the app, go to the "town by town" page. I put notes from my discussions in the actual post.

    If anyone wants to critique the process for denying the town extra info and what to do, please go ahead. I'm not saying I'm the end all, be all authority. However, I have learned a lot of scary stuff in this process.

    This, by far, is the worst town in the state as far as pistol permit process goes. I can see why they wanted to keep this paperwork from me.

    http://ctpistolpermitissues.com/2011...-in-the-study/

    Jonathan
    Wow, that's just incredibly bad. Your work-around seems very helpful and logical but it's unfortunate that a person has to go to that length to get a permit. What a shame the local PD can't follow the statutes contained within the state law in this particular regard. Procedure is one thing but it is *not* above what is lawful.
    Minds are like parachutes. Just because you lost yours doesn't mean you can borrow mine...

  3. #3
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    That's the INSANITY of it all. He says they have a policy, so they don't need to follow the law!

    Well, I now have a Hartford resident I'm helping through the process, so things are looking good so far as getting someone on the hearing schedule and start dragging Hartford to the hearings. I'd like them to keep sending their detective to each and every one. Everyone I can help, I will. This is just ludicrous.

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

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    Don't you guys have elected representatives in the State Capitol?

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    WOW, sounds like the GOV needs to get involved. I would love the Detective and Mayor of this town to tell the govenor of the state to go screw himself your laws mean nothing in our town.....we have declaired ourselfs to be our own country.......we are at war with the state and USA.

    I would love to see that conversation...lol

  6. #6
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    WOW, sounds like the GOV needs to get involved. I would love the Detective and Mayor of this town to tell the govenor of the state to go screw himself your laws mean nothing in our town.....we have declaired ourselfs to be our own country.......we are at war with the state and USA.

    I would love to see that conversation...lol
    Our governor is one of the most despised in the nation. Lowest ranking of all governors, I believe as of last week. He is our first democrat governor in quite some time and really has no desire to think that we have gun rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Statkowski View Post
    Don't you guys have elected representatives in the State Capitol?
    Yes, but we can only get a third, if we're lucky, to even listen to us on the issue. I have gone to all of our hearings during the last legislative session. Many just tune you out as long as they see you are against their viewpoint.
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

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    This isn't a "gun" issue, it's a "due process" issue, a "rule of law" issue, even a "civil rights" issue - the handgun is secondary to the issue, really.

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    It took me 6 months to obtain my permit from Hartford. That's from the time I scheduled my interview in July 08, had an interview in October of 08, and then got a call for the permit in January of 09. ridiculous... the excuse is that only one person does it....

  9. #9
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    We all agree on this. They don't care (and right now, they have the majority).

    Our AG wrote our insane assault weapons laws back some time ago as a rep. I've seen the same arguments play out at during our legislative session. As long as it benefits their agenda, they don't care about the constitutionality of due process or not.

    Though, I think we just got a partial ruling on one due process case here in CT (gotta do a little more research).

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

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    I just sent e-mails to Representative Robles, and Senator Fonfara...I'm awaiting replies.

    I've even sent an e-mail to the AG. I'm curious to hear his response.

  11. #11
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    I'm still awaiting a response from my friend on city council.

    My argument is the same as mentioned above, it's a rights/due process issue - not a gun issue. We'll see where it goes.

    I'd be surprised if Fonfara has any real feelings on the issue. He's been there so long he's indeed part of the incumbent machine.

    As far as the AG is concerned, what method did you use? I'm going to draft one tomorrow as well. Curious.

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

  12. #12
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    When bringing up the issue to the AG, I mentioned the difficulty I had obtaining my town permit, and mention dhow it took six month for the entire process, I then cited the state statute that basically gives towns eight (8) weeks to get back to us.

    I cited your website a bit, as you summed it up pretty well, and how the Detective believes that his policy supersedes state law, and that its unacceptable.

    I know the AG is anti 2nd amendment so I tamed my response somewhat, nonetheless I'm interested in getting a response. I did ask him to send a memo to each town as to what the state asks for, and time lines to somewhat streamline the process for everyone.

    We'll see!

  13. #13
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    Was this by email?

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    Was this by email?

    Jonathan
    Yes KIX, they were by e-mail, and I received two responses from Senator Fonfara:

    First:

    "Dear Mr. Lopez:

    Thank you for your email. The problem that you identify is one of longstanding. There was a bill during the 2011 session reported out of the Public safety Committee that sought to address this issue (municipalities requiring more background information than required by state statute; the length of time municipal officials take to process applications - or even provide applications!), Senate Bill 967. It was reported favorable out of the Public Safety Committee and the Planning and Development Committee but, unfortunately, died in the Judiciary Committee, which took no action on the bill (all bills have to be voted on by any committee of cognizance, as well as by the committee of origin; any bills that relate to municipalities must go through Planning and Development, any bills that petain to legal issues must go through Judiciary).

    I am sure that it will be introduced again in the 2012 legislative session, which begins in February, and I will be happy to support it. The one caveat is that the 2012 session is a short session which, under our state constitution, may only deal with matters that have significant fiscal impact on the state budget. If this bill is deemed to not meet that standard, it will have to wait unitl the 2013 session - a long budget session - to be taken up again.

    For your information, I have attached a report from our Office of Legislative Research that pertains to the issues you raise. I have also included links below to the text of SB 967, the Bill History page, and the Joint favorable Report issued by the Public Safety Committee. It will be up to the Co-Chairs of Public Safety to reintroduce this bill in the next session, if it meets the fiscal requirement (only committees may introduce bills in the short session).

    I hope that you find this information helpful. I am sorry that SB 967 did not pass in the 2011 session; be assured that many legislators are aware of these problems and anxious to pass legislation that would require municipalities to comply. I count myself among them.

    Sincerely,

    John Fonfara "


    Second:

    "Dear Wildaliz,

    I am forwarding you a constituent email (see below), received by our office today, together with our response. The constituent, "name and address", has an issue with how the Hartford Police Department processes applications for a pistol carry permit, and believes the HPD requirements exceed Connecticut state statutes. As this is a city issue, I am forwarding this to your department in the hope that you are able to address Mr. Lopez's concerns, both with regard to timeliness of application processing by the Hartford Police Department, and the amount of information required by the application. It is our understanding that state statutes outline permit application requirements, but do not currently prohibit any municipality from adding to those requirements.

    Mr. Lopez can be reached via email at "e-mail address" or phone at "phone number"; I have copied him on this email.

    Thank you very much for your assistance,

    Linda Buchanan
    Legislative Aide to
    State Senator John Fonfara"

  15. #15
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    Color me surprised.

    I will also make an effort to contact him as someone who conducts classes for his constituents and see where that goes.

    I'll also make note of my study and what Hartford is doing.

    Maybe, just maybe, we may be able to get somewhere. I have a Hartford person I'm helping now, he can also jump on as well. If we start doing this, in numbers, maybe he'll see where the issues are.

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

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    Only issue I had is "but do not currently prohibit any municipality from adding to those requirements"

    we'll see...

  17. #17
    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    This is another problem to many panels, commities, and groups of the goverment things have to get through; any of which can kill a bill.

    One guy passing the buck, lets make the person that asked the questions a target for his local cops to harass now.

    Another guy blowing smoke up your butt but said he would support it in 2013....lets hope you get him voted out before then.

  18. #18
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post

    One guy passing the buck, lets make the person that asked the questions a target for his local cops to harass now.
    Another reason why I decided to get a lawyer early on. I know it's good to have a relationship with one just in case, but since I've been doing this...... almost a necessity to have one just in case.

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    That's the INSANITY of it all. He says they have a policy, so they don't need to follow the law!

    Well, I now have a Hartford resident I'm helping through the process, so things are looking good so far as getting someone on the hearing schedule and start dragging Hartford to the hearings. I'd like them to keep sending their detective to each and every one. Everyone I can help, I will. This is just ludicrous.

    Jonathan
    Hi Jonathan,

    I would love to meet w/ you at some point just for a friendly discussion and to meet with one of my fellow armed "Nutmeggers" (I personally don't OC, as I usually carry concealed for various reasons, but I completely support lawful open carry). Let me know the next time you are available, and I will travel up for a cup or coffee or something. I own my own business but I can always ask my employees to cover for me while I'm away. I'll try to get copies of the Westport pistol permit application to you ASAP for your information.
    Minds are like parachutes. Just because you lost yours doesn't mean you can borrow mine...

  20. #20
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    Message sent.

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

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