HIT THIS POLL . . . . Please.

THIS IS A HOT TOPIC DOWN UNDER.

Were making inroads but not without much risistance. Its not a secret either, thats a media beatup. Haz.



Secret government bid for school pistols
by: Geoff Chambers and Kate Sikora From: The Daily Telegraph October 04, 2011 12:00AM

TEENAGERS would be able to shoot guns during school hours under a secret plan hatched by the Education Department and powerful lobby groups.

An internal department submission has revealed an advanced strategy to accommodate target shooting into extra-curricular programs at the state's 650 high schools.

Result so far:

Results: Today's poll
Thanks for voting!

Should teenage students be taught how to shoot?
Yes, 38.6% (567 votes)

No 61.4% (902 votes) Total votes: 1469


Link to Daily Telegraph Poll.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...r-school-pistols/story-e6freuzi-1226157577500

Voted. Although I don't think it should be up to the school; rather the parents. Then again, I have my idealist moments...

I voted yes. If everybody takes five seconds to vote we can turn this poll around easy!

Haz, my friend, if you folks Downunder don't start teaching your kids to shoot, you're going to wind up with soldiers who can't hit a bull in the butt with a bass fiddle!!

I saw this when I went through Basic Combat Training in this country fifty years ago. The boys who grew up with guns, mostly from the Southeastern U.S., were able to quickly adjust to the M1 Garand rifle. I grew to love that ugly, heavy, beautiful weapon. The boys who had never touched a gun in their lives and had been "brainwashed" into fearing firearms, most of them from the Northeastern U.S., couldn't hit the broad side of a barn!

I do think that the parents should have the final say until the young person, male or female, is of a legal age.

PistolPackingMomma said:

Voted. Although I don't think it should be up to the school; rather the parents. Then again, I have my idealist moments...

Click to expand...

Hi PPM.

It is up to the parents weather their child attends target shooting if this gets through. No one is forcing them to attend if they dont want to. Were trying to introduce rifelry and target shooting back into schools just as it was in most schools before the firearm ban. We now have two members in the parliment who are aligned with the Christian democrats and we hold the balance of power. The anties, particularly the Greens are ranting on talk back radio trying to stir up a wave of negatives suggesting we are raising future potential criminals?

Cheers Haz.

thebigsd said:

I voted yes. If everybody takes five seconds to vote we can turn this poll around easy!

Click to expand...

Sure can. Thanks guys and gal's. Haz.

SFCRetired said:

Haz, my friend, if you folks Downunder don't start teaching your kids to shoot, you're going to wind up with soldiers who can't hit a bull in the butt with a bass fiddle!!

I saw this when I went through Basic Combat Training in this country fifty years ago. The boys who grew up with guns, mostly from the Southeastern U.S., were able to quickly adjust to the M1 Garand rifle. I grew to love that ugly, heavy, beautiful weapon. The boys who had never touched a gun in their lives and had been "brainwashed" into fearing firearms, most of them from the Northeastern U.S., couldn't hit the broad side of a barn!

I do think that the parents should have the final say until the young person, male or female, is of a legal age.

Click to expand...

Hi mate.

"Under the plans, the classes would be open to high school students aged over 12 who had been given permission by their parents."

Click to expand...

.

Read More: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...r-school-pistols/story-e6freuzi-1226157577500

That is the plan my friend. Only those who's parents give permission. My entire family has been exposed to firearms. My children and grand childern all hunt, fish, and some target shoot. They love the life. My elderst grandson often says, "This is better than hanging with the gang Pop!" Cheers, Haz.

Voted....

Good luck Haz!

Haz. said:

Hi PPM.

It is up to the parents weather their child attends target shooting if this gets through. No one is forcing them to attend if they dont want to. Were trying to introduce rifelry and target shooting back into schools just as it was in most schools before the firearm ban. We now have two members in the parliment who are aligned with the Christian democrats and we hold the balance of power. The anties, particularly the Greens are ranting on talk back radio trying to stir up a wave of negatives suggesting we are raising future potential criminals?

Cheers Haz.

Click to expand...

I think it's great to teach kids shooting skills; I consider it an activity no different than football or archery. All I meant by my comment was that I think (ideally, if the world were populated by perfect parents) that they would teach their kids to shoot. Sadly, I know the world is not so. As for the anties, hopefully everyone will see the fallacy of their claims.

I really hope y'all can get your rights restored. Keep up the good fight!!!

PistolPackingMomma said:

I think it's great to teach kids shooting skills; I consider it an activity no different than football or archery. All I meant by my comment was that I think (ideally, if the world were populated by perfect parents) that they would teach their kids to shoot. Sadly, I know the world is not so. As for the anties, hopefully everyone will see the fallacy of their claims.

I really hope y'all can get your rights restored. Keep up the good fight!!!

Click to expand...

Thanks PPM. I know what you meant. Were working on getting our rights restored. Should read some of the anties comments on the poll. Wow, "shooting not a sport" were raising potential killers, we dont want to be like America!" talk about brain washed?

Sadly the no vote is still ahead at this time.

Should teenage students be taught how to shoot?
Yes. 39.36% (1362 votes)

No. 60,64% 2098 votes.

I'm very dissapointed in some of the hunting and shooters forums here. Hardly any votes from them. Very apathetic. Its no wonder we are loosing our rights!



A big thank you to all members on this forum who voted and to those who may still vote before the poll closes! Regards, Haz.

Voted and tipped the "No"s off the 60%

Yes40.09% (1499 votes)
No59.91% (2240 votes

Any idea what the prevailing voter's thought is to deny this?

Badger Johnson said:

Any idea what the prevailing voter's thought is to deny this?

Click to expand...

My best guess is that ot has something to do with teaching children violence. You know the "logic", if we teach kids how to shoot then they will become murderers...

Badger Johnson said:

Any idea what the prevailing voter's thought is to deny this?

Click to expand...

Here are the thirty one comments posted. Give you an idea of the mindset of some people regarding firearms. The paper wont print my comments. I tried. sent in two but to no avail! Comments 4, 9, 11 and similar are doozy's.

Read full story and comments :http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...chool-pistols/comments-e6freuzi-1226157577500



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Comments on this story
Alastair of Newrybar Posted at 1:31 AM Today
We had school army cadets from first year (year 8). If you were not a boy scout, parades were compulsory Monday and Friday after classes, until you left school. There were bivouacs twice a year for a week each during school holidays, during which arms training with live ammunition was inclusive. Didn't cause me, or anyone I know, to become a gun nut. The parades and discipline were beneficial as well.

Comment 1 of 31

Jeff of Sydney Posted at 1:38 AM Today
Are you bloody serious??!! How about being taught driving lessons, or lessons on respect, accountability, responsibility and basic manners!!! How about lessons of life or financial survival in the world, there is so much more that should be on the list before stupid guns, that are supposed to mean nothing in our society, unless we are adopting another stupid USA amendment.

Comment 2 of 31

Nick Posted at 2:01 AM Today
Teach them some responsibility when using firearms, rather than these 'shoot them up' video games that desensitise them to violence.

Comment 3 of 31

Greg Reynolds of Australia Posted at 2:06 AM Today
And? What's wrong with that? Good to see paranoia is alive & well in our society. Watch all the 'Do Gooders' & fun police throw their arms in the air. Grow up!

Comment 4 of 31

Rose of Hunter Region Posted at 4:56 AM Today
Gee, then we can have school massacres, just like America !!!!!

Comment 5 of 31

J Posted at 5:13 AM Today
Target shooting is an olympic sport. I dont see the IOC dropping shooting from the list of events any time soon. Who knows we might win more medals in that! Its not like we're arming our kids. Guns are still illegal to possess otherwise and very hard to get in australia.

Comment 6 of 31

dee gee Posted at 7:00 AM Today
Barry O'Farrell as lost control.

Comment 7 of 31

34 year old female hunter of Sydney Posted at 7:09 AM Today
Before all the nay sayers start- outdoor education, which includes hunting, is an elective over in New Zealand. Anyone know if their per-capita rate for gun crime is better or worse than ours???The ability to hold a gun licence means you must have no convictions for a wide range of serious offences- it makes you conscious of the decisions you make, not a gun-totting red neck like many people seem to believe!! With the behaviour I see from many school children now days I believe a disciplined subject like this might just teach them some respect.

Comment 8 of 31

No chance in hell Posted at 7:11 AM Today
There is no chance in hell i will let my son hold a gun or be allowed to shoot one. If my sons shool intrduced gun shooting i would pull him out immediatley. What is wrong withis government. This is not america.This is australia

Comment 9 of 31

Bob.H of Gosford Posted at 7:25 AM Today
Shooting is an Olympic Sport. Surely our students deserve the opportunity to participate in all sports that are accepted at the Olympic level. Might I suggest that this has nothing to do with gun crime and that opposition is as ridiculous as opposing sex education in our schools so we can prevent teen pregnancy.

Comment 10 of 31

Baz Posted at 7:27 AM Today
And no doubt next week the knife-throwing association will be introducing their sport into schools

Comment 11 of 31

not wanted Posted at 7:32 AM Today
good one Barry, who's pandering to minorities now?

Comment 12 of 31

STEVEN MELLON of URUNGA NSW Posted at 7:32 AM Today
Teaching kids to play with guns,this gov employs teachers with a gun mentality.If i wanted my kids to become simpletons,ican manage that myself,idont want overpaid PATHETIC teachers to brain wash the kids with gun games

Comment 13 of 31

Phil K of Dubbo. Posted at 7:44 AM Today
Ok , it's not like you can just go and pick up a gun at school, I have no doubt there will be intesive training before they even get to toutch a firearm. And to learn firearms safety in a controled environment is a good idea, Not to mention the dangers of them aswell. Oh and the tumbnail is of a rifle not a pistol, just saying.

Comment 14 of 31

Deb of Sydney NSW Posted at 8:05 AM Today
I am surprised there is lobbying for teaching shooting in schools in this day and age. I grew up in the country some 40 years ago, and nearly every country child knew how to shoot, but it was more of a 'need to have' basis ie. shooting excess numbers of pigs and roos, and killing old, maimed and sick animals. We all had fun target shooting old cans on fences after the work was done though! Those who want guns for illegal purposes will obtain and learn how to use them regardless of the introduction of shooting in schools (they seem to have been doing that since guns were introduced into Australia), and personally I can't see anything wrong with it, provided the classes are well thought out and manned thoroughly. If any of my children show an interest, they can do it. It is no more dangerous than rock climbing or crossing a street and my children have done both at school.

Comment 15 of 31

Gaz of Wide Bay Posted at 8:06 AM Today
Not a good idea. If this becomes the case then give everyone back their guns. We will probably need them.

Comment 16 of 31

BannedRightWingNutJob Posted at 8:07 AM Today
OMG - can you imagine training students to become snipers here in Oz ???? Don't they get enough experience in drive-bys in the south-western suburbs (Guilford, Lakemba, Bankstown etc) !!!!

Comment 17 of 31

Houses are sitting ducks Posted at 8:08 AM Today
Just don't teach them at Merrylands, Granville and Lakembe. They already get enough practice shooting houses.

Comment 18 of 31

Neil Smith of Kiama Posted at 8:15 AM Today
It is all about curiosity as kids see them in movies etc.So let them have a shot if they are around trained people and I would say a lot would say is that it after firing 1 shot.Better to satisfier there curiosity that way then some child ending up dead by shooting them self all there friend by accident.

Comment 19 of 31

jas QLD of QLD Posted at 8:18 AM Today
Makes perfect sence i grew up clay bird shooting at my school great fun. Good life skills as well. You learn to respect the weapon trust the weapon its a very safe sport.

Comment 20 of 31

Nicholas of Sydney Posted at 8:18 AM Today
Surely the days of referring to shooting as a 'sport' are long gone. Guns are designed for one thing: to kill. Reducing pests and feral animals is a legitimate use but it's not a 'sport' in the traditional sense. This is a desperate attempt by the Shooters party to widen its user base and the last thing Australia should become is more like America where every man, woman and child has a gun so they can 'protect' themselves and their families. But how many of them legitimately use their guns each year to do so? A hell of a lot less than the number that are used to kill or injure innocent civilians, that's for sure. Leave the shooting to our military, law enforcement, security and famers.

Comment 21 of 31

TC of Newcastle Posted at 8:19 AM Today
I love the way the media jumps on these topics. Kids have been doing archery for sport for centuries and what about all the gold medals for shooting from in the olympics. Properly supervised it could have a very positive outcome for our already messed up youth, These kids can and probably will get their hands on a gun anyway so why not train them to have a healthy respect for the operational laws of the weapon. Any parent knows the more you keep something away from them the more they want it. The way some of these clowns carry on it's as if they think the kids will be bringing them in their back packs.

Comment 22 of 31

Befuddled of Sydney Posted at 8:29 AM Today
This is by far the most idiotic thing I have ever heard. Children do not need to have guns thrust into their hands. Will that enhance a resume? Wake up and smell the sh*t that this country is quickly becoming.

Comment 23 of 31

Laurel of Sydney Posted at 8:30 AM Today
Just look at all the "No" votes. Next they'll be saying the Army shouldn't be taught to shoot.

Comment 24 of 31

Kat of Minto Heights Posted at 8:36 AM Today
The Shooters Party and the Christian Democrates are proving to be just as bad as the Greens and Independents in Federal politics. They are holding the state to ransom, just like their federal counter parts. This is absolutely appalling. The people of this state said they wanted the problems that the last 16 years of hard Labor created fixed, but these bastards are too intent on feathering their own nests and keeping the government busy with their own agenda's rather than puting their energy towards fixing the state. Nobody should ever, never, ever vote for these fringe parties, independents or anything green again. Bastards!

Comment 25 of 31

Jay Dubb of The Burbs Posted at 8:36 AM Today
I voted yes because it is closest to my belief although I think "allowed to choose" would be a better phrase than "taught" implying it would be compulsory, shooting, like any sport, doesn't suit everyone.

Comment 26 of 31

sicco of Australia Posted at 8:39 AM Today
Families who want their children to use guns can join shooting clubs on their own time. The US experience shows that when guns are available, they are the preferred method of suicide - it is irresponsible to suggest that guns should be made more accessible to teenagers. The NSW Department of Education should not encourage children to accept guns as ordinary sporting equipment. The NSW Government should not formulate policy based on the anti-social Fishers and Shooters Party agenda.

Comment 27 of 31

G.Gibson of Sydney Posted at 8:45 AM Today
Too much violence in youth these days to allow them access to guns.

Comment 28 of 31

George Posted at 8:47 AM Today
How can it be a "Secret Plan" if its was on public record since last October??

Comment 29 of 31

Geoff Hills of Hills Posted at 8:57 AM Today
Agree, its a pity that they haven't introduced compulsory driving lessons as well. Bad driving kills more of our youngsters than bullets.

Comment 30 of 31

Simon of Sydney Posted at 8:57 AM Today
The US gun culture introduced into my kid's school in a dirty deal by politicians? What a good idea! This useless O'Farrell mob need to be kicked out of power right now. Or maybe they could be used as their own clay pigeons.

Comment 31 of 31

I dont know if this interview was ever carried out or not! It was posted and reported several times Down Under when the introduction of firearms training for youths was being discussed at an earlier time.

For those that don't know him, Major General Peter Cosgrove is an "Australian treasure!"

General Cosgrove was allegedly interviewed on the radio recently. You'll love his reply to the lady who interviewed him concerning guns and children. Regardless of how you feel about gun laws you gotta love this! This is one of the best comeback lines of all time. It is a portion of an ABC interview between a female broadcaster and General Cosgrove who was about to sponsor a Boy Scout Troop visiting his military headquarters.

FEMALE INTERVIEWER:
So, General Cosgrove, what things are you going to teach these young boys when they visit your base?

GENERAL COSGROVE:
We're going to teach them climbing, canoeing, archery and shooting.

FEMALE INTERVIEWER:
Shooting! That's a bit irresponsible, isn't it?

GENERAL COSGROVE:
I don't see why, they'll be properly supervised on the rifle range.

FEMALE INTERVIEWER:
Don't you admit that this is a terribly dangerous activity to be teaching children?

GENERAL COSGROVE:
I don't see how. We will be teaching them proper rifle discipline before they even touch a firearm.

FEMALE INTERVIEWER:
But you're equipping them to become violent killers.

GENERAL COSGROVE:
Well, Ma'am, you're equipped to be a prostitute, but you're not one, are you?

The radio went silent and the interview ended.

Whether the alleged remark was made or not, it did not in my mind cast General Cosgrove in a bad light.
If anything, it showed the General as a realist and a quick thinker. The remark was not sexist; it merely high-lights the FLAW in the logic that teaching someone how to handle a firearm makes them violent killers. I wish there were more such brilliant counter-arguments to the flawed logic heard in a lot of today's politically-correct sentiments.

Its now 3.09 pm. Just did a check on some of the sites I placed the poll. No wonder I often feel like tossing in the towel. This just shows the lack of interest and lathargy of the majority of Australian hunters and fishers. Result of one site I posted this poll Down Under this morning at 9am.

HIT THIS POLL . . .
by Hazard on Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:16 am in Announcements:

37 views.

1. vote.


I'm sick and tired of this! They deserve to have their remaining firearms stripped from them the lazy dead beats! They whine and winge about the tight gun laws and do absolutly nothing to help themselves. Not even bother to vote on a poll like this? No wonder the anties get all the attention. Sorry for the vent! Cheers Haz.

***************************************

And heres the result on another shooters and fishers forum Down Under......

Hit this poll . . . .
Secret government bid for school pistols by: Geoff Chambers and Kate Sikora From: The Daily Telegraph October 04, 2011 12:00AM TEENAGERS would...
Started by Hazard, 6 Hours Ago 09:00am
Replies: 1
Views: 11

ONE VOTE? I'm sick and tired of this, I'm done! Haz.

It's up to 43% pro-education,
57% pro-ignorance.
And it's only been about 6 hours since you posted it here.
Don't throw in the towel yet!

I've tried to post a couple comments, but the first isn't showing up & the second I keep getting a "server error" so it won't even send to them for censorship. :cuss:

Hard to believe some of these comments coming from Aussies. Ennyhoo... I voted 'Yes'. The Yes is leading at present.

SFCRetired said:

Haz, my friend, if you folks Downunder don't start teaching your kids to shoot, you're going to wind up with soldiers who can't hit a bull in the butt with a bass fiddle!!

I saw this when I went through Basic Combat Training in this country fifty years ago. The boys who grew up with guns, mostly from the Southeastern U.S., were able to quickly adjust to the M1 Garand rifle. I grew to love that ugly, heavy, beautiful weapon. The boys who had never touched a gun in their lives and had been "brainwashed" into fearing firearms, most of them from the Northeastern U.S., couldn't hit the broad side of a barn!

I do think that the parents should have the final say until the young person, male or female, is of a legal age.

Click to expand...

I agree with you 100%. I was brought up with guns. I shot on a HS rifle team. I carried a .22 rifle on buses and subways along with a brick of .22 ammo. Nobody bothered me or any of my friends who did the same. We traveled by bus to other schools along with our rifles and ammo. When I was in the Army I qualified as Expert with the M-1 Garand. Bob.

Hi. After many calls last night to friends, relatives, and posting on several boards down under I retired disapointed and seriously thinking about giving up. I wake up this morning, check the poll and am surprised to see this:


Results: Today's poll
Thanks for voting!

Should teenage students be taught how to shoot?

Yes. 55.14% (4169 votes).

No. 44.86% (3392 votes).

Total votes: 7561.

It seems some shooters and firearms enthusiests have stirred over night and voted. This has been topic of conversation on talkback radio because of all the criminal shooting in our capital cities and also in the papers. I'm surprised with the low 4.169 votes.




Thanks to all who voted! Cheers Haz.