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Thread: Moronic actions by another school board?

  1. #1
    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Moronic actions by another school board?

    Florida school committee approves handouts, then school board disapproves them. What kind of handouts? Constitution, Bill of Rights, Gettysburg Address, Call to Arms. All because of who's name was in the printing credit.
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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okboomer View Post
    All because of who's name was in the printing credit.
    Bullsh*t.



    From your link:
    Some booklets donated to Hernando were accompanied by a one-page sheet from the Cato Institute,...
    A foreword to the booklet reads:...
    Booklets donated to the Citrus district refers the reader to books published...
    One of Skousen’s books referenced in the booklet...
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 10-04-2011 at 11:28 AM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
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    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
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    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    this country is dead. the socialist libs are brainwashing our kids to hate the Bill of rights, the Constitution & the Declaration of Independence. Just like our government is teaching that the founding fathers were terrorists...welcome to AmeriKa. we need a RESET badly
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    Regular Member Fisherman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GLOCK21GB View Post
    this country is dead. the socialist libs are brainwashing our kids to hate the Bill of rights, the Constitution & the Declaration of Independence. Just like our government is teaching that the founding fathers were terrorists...welcome to AmeriKa. we need a RESET badly
    Yup! You're right.

  5. #5
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GLOCK21GB View Post
    this country is dead. the socialist libs are brainwashing our kids to hate the Bill of rights, the Constitution & the Declaration of Independence. Just like our government is teaching that the founding fathers were terrorists...welcome to AmeriKa. we need a RESET badly
    Spare me.

    If you actually read the linked story it was an attempt to force political and religious views on the kids in the guise of the Constitution.




    Does anyone here actually READ the posts or links?
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 10-04-2011 at 01:13 PM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    Bullsh*t.
    Right back at ya:

    Two Florida school districts won’t be handing out pocket-sized Constitutions to their eighth graders because they were donated by the local 9/12 Project, prompting concerns from school officials about the “opinions and viewpoints” the booklets contain.
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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Thanks for proving my point.

    If they are booklet versions of the Constitution, Declaration, etc... Why are there "opinions and viewpoints"?

    Thanks for playing.

    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Does anyone know the actual texts of the opinions and viewpoints that the school board objected to?

    It would be interesting to see what the fuss is all about. Is it legitimate or are politics getting in the way?
    Last edited by thebigsd; 10-04-2011 at 07:35 PM.
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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    What does it matter?

    If you are supposedly donating booklets to the school keep you opinions, agendas, and web addresses off it. Otherwise it ain't about the kids. It's about your organization. And wrapping you motives in the guise of the Constitution is sleazy.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    What does it matter?

    If you are supposedly donating booklets to the school keep you opinions, agendas, and web addresses off it. Otherwise it ain't about the kids. It's about your organization. And wrapping you motives in the guise of the Constitution is sleazy.
    Oh, I agree with you 100%. I am just interested in reading the opinions.
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  11. #11
    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    Does anyone know the actual texts of the opinions and viewpoints that the school board objected to?

    It would be interesting to see what the fuss is all about. Is it legitimate or are politics getting in the way?
    Hmm, ever heard of Google? This is the information available from the websites associated with the institutions and I would think that some of their tenants would be objectionable to liberal school board members.

    From NatureCoast9/12Project

    The 9 Principles
    * If you believe in at least seven of them, then we have something in common.
    1. America Is Good.
    2. I believe in God and he is the Center of my Life.
    3. I must always try to be a more honest person than I was yesterday.
    4. The family is sacred. My spouse and I are the ultimate authority, not the government.
    5. If you break the law you pay the penalty. Justice is blind and no one is above it.
    6. I have a right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results.
    7. I work hard for what I have and I will share it with who I want to. Government cannot force me to be charitable.
    8. It is not un-American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion.
    9. The government works for me. I do not answer to them, they answer to me.

    12 VALUES:
    * Honesty * Reverence * Personal Responsibility
    * Hope * Thrift * Gratitude
    * Humility * Charity
    * Sincerity * Moderation
    * Hard Work * Courage
    From ScottishRiteofFreeMasonry

    Our Mission It is the mission of the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, SJ, to improve its members and enhance the communities in which they live by teaching and emulating the principles of Brotherly Love, Tolerance, Charity, and Truth while actively embracing high social, moral, and spiritual values including fellowship, compassion, and dedication to God, family and country.
    The other material "subject to opinions and viewpoints and selective choice of materials?”

    These booklets contained other primary texts such as the Declaration of Independence, Abraham Lincoln‘s Gettysburg Address and Patrick Henry’s Call to Arms. A foreword to the booklet reads: “Unless Americans remember and preserve our rich heritage of liberty, a new Dark Age of tyranny could lock the majority of mankind into the harsh chains of totalitarian slavery.”
    And from TheCatoInstitute

    Some booklets donated to Hernando were accompanied by a one-page sheet from the Cato Institute, a conservative think tank, with the heading “Constitutional Authority.” The sheet asserts that the Constitution has been misinterpreted, leading to “a government that’s effectively unlimited … and increasingly unaffordable.”
    It looks to me like the doners are providing thought-provoking material with the relevant Constitution and Declaration of Independence along with several key writings from pivitol points in our American History.

    But, then, liberals really don't want the school systems to produce critical thinkers who are well versed in the Constitution and how it's application over the years has morphed into something that seems to be working against the individual and for a bigger and growing government no longer by the people, for the people and of the people.

    If you look at the article, it says that the school board steering committee (made up of teachers) passed the items, but the School Board (not teachers) decided it was too controversial. Bushwah!

    And if you object to these items, then why aren't you screaming bloody murder about the actual text books used by the schools now? And, then there is this series that I feel outlines some of the questions we need answered to determine what education needs to be and should be in this country link
    Last edited by okboomer; 10-04-2011 at 09:18 PM.
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  12. #12
    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    What does it matter?

    If you are supposedly donating booklets to the school keep you opinions, agendas, and web addresses off it. Otherwise it ain't about the kids. It's about your organization.
    That is the most assinine attitude IMHO. Well, maybe not ... if you are not interested in teaching the kids how to do their own research and develop their own critical thinking skills so they are not easily led or fooled, this sounds like the perfect attitude to have.

    Just out of curiosity, HH, how many kids do you have? How much experience do you have with teaching and the politics that have governed teaching the past 40 years?

    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    And wrapping you motives in the guise of the Constitution is sleazy.
    Like the liberals have been doing through the K-12 textbooks and college professors the past 40 years?
    Last edited by okboomer; 10-04-2011 at 09:28 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GLOCK21GB View Post
    this country is dead. the socialist libs are brainwashing our kids to hate the Bill of rights, the Constitution & the Declaration of Independence. Just like our government is teaching that the founding fathers were terrorists...welcome to AmeriKa. we need a RESET badly
    Oh, I don't think its quite that bad. Its bad, maybe irreversible, but not dead yet. When Caius Julius is named Caesar, then it'll be dead.

    First, I don't think it ever existed in the sense of lots of freedom-loving people who vigorously supported liberty and repelled encroachments at every turn. I suspect most folks are just trying to get through the day, keep the boss satisfied, feed the kids, and pay the bills. I suspect its been that way from the beginning. Too many people not paying enough attention.

    If you want a real eye-opener, read up on the final years of the Roman Republic--not the Roman Empire--the Roman Republic. Say, the last 100 years or so of the Roman Republic, even the last 40 will do. The parallels are surprising. (Human nature hasn't changed in the last two millenia).

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okboomer View Post
    That is the most assinine attitude IMHO. Well, maybe not ... if you are not interested in teaching the kids how to do their own research and develop their own critical thinking skills so they are not easily led or fooled, this sounds like the perfect attitude to have.
    So... Let me get this straight.

    Your claim is the way to foster critical thinking among the youth in this country is to let political/religious organizations bombard them with propaganda to be distributed by their own school?

    Now that is some scary sh*t.

    My personal life is none of the forum's concern. I think I'm done with your pathetic personal propaganda pity party crusade. Good luck with that.
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 10-04-2011 at 10:06 PM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okboomer View Post
    SNIP Hmm, ever heard of Google? This is the information available from the websites associated with the institutions and I would think that some of their tenants would be objectionable to liberal school board members.
    Thanks for the sarcasm. Yes, I have heard of Google. Apparently you didn't read my question correctly. I asked if anyone had the ACTUAL texts from the booklets.

    On another note, I do thank you for the additional background information on the subject.
    Last edited by thebigsd; 10-04-2011 at 10:26 PM.
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    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    Thanks for the sarcasm. Yes, I have heard of Google. Apparently you didn't read my question correctly. I asked if anyone had the ACTUAL texts from the booklets.

    On another note, I do thank you for the additional background information on the subject.
    Reported in the St. Petersburg Times:

    Some booklets donated to Hernando were published by the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, whose website describes its mission as serving communities through “fellowship, compassion, and dedication to God, family and country.”
    Only mentions the website ... not that there was any forward by them in the one's they donated.

    These booklets contained other primary texts such as the Declaration of Independence, Abraham Lincoln‘s Gettysburg Address and Patrick Henry’s Call to Arms. A foreword to the booklet reads: “Unless Americans remember and preserve our rich heritage of liberty, a new Dark Age of tyranny could lock the majority of mankind into the harsh chains of totalitarian slavery.”
    I don't see any problem with any of these being in the booklets.

    Some booklets donated to Hernando were accompanied by a one-page sheet from the Cato Institute, a conservative think tank, with the heading “Constitutional Authority.” The sheet asserts that the Constitution has been misinterpreted, leading to “a government that’s effectively unlimited … and increasingly unaffordable.”
    And, I see no falsity in this statement. If the kids are getting any instruction in current events, they have to be talking about the economic crisis and the unreasonable debt.

    Booklets donated to the Citrus district refers the reader to books published by the National Center for Constitutional Studies, a conservative, religious-themed organization formed by Mormon political writer Cleon Skousen, who argued that the founding of the United States was a divine miracle. One of Skousen’s books referenced in the booklet, The 5,000 Year Leap, is often cited by political commentator and 912 Project founder Glenn Beck, who wrote a foreword for a later edition.
    There may be some quibbling on this one, but it still only referrs to other publications.

    <break due to maxing out quotes>
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  17. #17
    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    <continue previous post>

    Nature Coast 9/12 Project organizer Maureen Arrigale said her group reached out to school officials last year about donating booklets and submitted samples for review, which were approved.“The booklets they have are the same booklets we sent them,” she told the Times. “We’re not promoting any kind of agenda or politics whatsoever. Our name just happens to be on the book.”
    Mullen acknowledged staff members reviewed the booklets, but said they didn’t research the National Center for Constitutional Studies or the 9/12 Project itself at the time. He also said the sample booklets received did not contain the 9/12 Project name and website.
    The teacher's were not concerned about the references, and there seems to be some question about whether or not the 9/12 Project name and website were included in the original submissions.

    So, according to the newpaper, quoting the School Board members of the several School Districts, there was a quote(1), other traditional important writings(2), some web addresses(3), a reference to a seperate publication(4), and a seperate handout (which the school did not include) (5). Of these, only (1) is even questionable in any way, as all the others required additional, intentional action by any kid for it to have any influence on them.

    As for your quip about sarcasm, you could easily have found any of this out for yourself. I thought the article was quite specific and informative about what had been included and what they were objecting to, which I, personally find to be specious and weak excuses.

    I am not sure that folks are aware of or fully understand the massive dumbing down of the school curriculum of today!
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    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    So... Let me get this straight.

    Your claim is the way to foster critical thinking among the youth in this country is to let political/religious organizations bombard them with propaganda to be distributed by their own school?

    Now that is some scary sh*t.

    My personal life is none of the forum's concern. I think I'm done with your pathetic personal propaganda pity party crusade. Good luck with that.
    Well, actually, discussing differing view points of specific topics and defending your stance is how most folks learn critical thinking skills. I also don't see anywhere in the St. Petersburg Times article that stated there were ANY religious 'propaganda' included in any of the booklets. Political, yes, and that should be under discussion in the classroom under American History and/or Current Events. Heck, from 7-12 grade, Oklahoma required at least 1 credit each year of American History, Current Events, World History-Pre WWII, World History-Post WWII, Western Civilization (comparative of US and other Western Nations), and there were two other options, but I didn't take them as they were covered in the last three.

    As for the information available at the websites, that would simply be broadening the kids horizons about issues that are becoming more and more relevant today. Part of the OCDO issue is how the interpretation of the BILL OF RIGHTS is chipping away at our RIGHTS.

    As for your personal life, I gave you a couple of options on the answer you could give, only one of which would have been specific. Your choice to not answer. By that choice, you have confirmed a suspicion I have about you.

    "Pathetic personal propaganda pity party crusade" HARHARHAR ... alliterate much? There was no pity party at play here at all. And the only pathos is on your part Lol
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  19. #19
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okboomer View Post

    ... I gave you...
    You gave me? Forgive me my Lord of the Interwebs for I did not know it was you.


    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    ... but based on your comments, you also do not want our kids exposed to it.
    yawn.

    Keep your web addresses, opinions, agendas, membership forms, and any other propaganda you are pimping off the Constitution and away from schools. Your propaganda, regardless of what organization is pushing it, regardless of if it is good propaganda or bad propaganda does not belong in schools.

    The second you put anything in those booklets other than the Constitution, Declaration, Bill O Rights... It is no longer about doing something for the children and everything to do with pimping your organization. Using those documents to pimp your organization.

    But by all means keep drinking the cool aid. Plenty to go around.



    p.s. "exposed to"? It ain't like the Constitution is a flu bug.

    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 10-06-2011 at 01:34 PM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
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    Alexcabbie

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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    ...
    The second you put anything in those booklets other than the Constitution, Declaration, Bill O Rights... It is no longer about doing something for the children and everything to do with pimping your organization.
    ...
    ^ This. If we get to push religion and politics on school kids, people with whom we disagree get to as well. No thanks.

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    Any organization that wraps itself in the flag or the Constitution to push its agenda needs to be scrutinized. I think they crossed the line when they added their own talking points instead of just handing out copies of the documents without commentary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    Does anyone know the actual texts of the opinions and viewpoints that the school board objected to?
    Some were mentioned in the article. What I object to is that the opinions of one group of men (our Founding Fathers) are acceptable when distributed in "pure" form, but when the opinions of other groups of men are added, it somehow becomes unpure. What should be done is to examine varying opinions and discuss their relative merits. It's what we did during our Jr. and Sr. years in H.S. Both teachers interjected their own opinions right along with the varying opinions we discussed in class.

    When kids are spoonfed what to think, or are kept away from dissenting opinions, they don't learn a damned thing. It's only when exposed to dissenting opinions that they learn to discriminate between the fluff and the bullhocky. People wonder how, given the massive amounts of money our country spends on education that it's even remotely possible.

    It would be interesting to see what the fuss is all about. Is it legitimate or are politics getting in the way?
    Politics always get in the way. Doesn't mean the underlying issues aren't legitimate. In this case, however, the issues appear to be illegitimate.

    Strange course of action for a school board.
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    Quote Originally Posted by okboomer View Post


    It looks to me like the doners are providing thought-provoking material with the relevant Constitution and Declaration of Independence along with several key writings from pivitol points in our American History.

    But, then, liberals really don't want the school systems to produce critical thinkers who are well versed in the Constitution and how it's application over the years has morphed into something that seems to be working against the individual and for a bigger and growing government no longer by the people, for the people and of the people.
    Two very well-stated points.
    Last edited by MilProGuy; 10-10-2011 at 02:10 AM.

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    Back in my day...

    I've only been out of high school for a little over a decade, and I find it hard to believe that things have changed this much. We didn't have pocket sized pamphlets handed out in school. We didn't need to because the classroom had GIGANTIC poster sized reprints of the Declaration of Independence, and The Bill of Rights. The same thing was printed in our textbooks, and we had to take tests and pop quizzes on them, and have class discussions on what the Bill of Rights was and what it means.

    It just so happens that I did have a miniature version of the US Constitution (which gathered dust on a bookshelf for many years) but it was distributed by the Boy Scouts during 'citizenship' week when I was, oh, I think nine or ten years old. (At the time I had only a vague idea of what the Constitution was, so it got set aside until I found it years later)

    Of course, liberals would probably condemn my high school as a breeding ground for terrorists seeing as how the teachers brought in firearms at least once a year for demonstrations-- Historical muzzle loaders in History class, along with a demonstration of how they were loaded and fired with paper 'cartriges', semi-automatic pistols in JROTC for firearms safety lessons (from a much beloved Vietnam veteran who was our instructor), not to mention the fact that students actually touched (GASP!!) M-1A1 rifles during drill practice and actually FIRED (DOUBLE GASP!!) .117 daisy may pellet rifles every day after school for 2 hours because we actually had a competitive rifle team. (State Champs, btw)

    Anyway, back to the subject at hand. I don't think schools should be a segway for any political organization to preach their message. If I had a kid, and they brought home a copy of the Constitution with an Apollo Alliance stamp on it, that sucker would go straight into the fireplace, and I reckon if I don't want liberal agencies stamping things on school material, I probably shouldn't suppor the 9/12-ers doing it either.
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    Put the political statement into the recycle bin and distribute the constitutions.
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