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Thread: New Britain

  1. #1
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    New Britain

    Hello and welcome, I wanted to greet you all, it's my first post on this forum and I need in depth clarification on the New Britain's ordinance. I read the similar threads on this issue as well as other topics regarding OC in the state of CT and I'm amused of how misinformed the people (including me) are. I took my NRA class about 10 weeks ago, the instructor stated CLEARLY that the only legal way to carry in the state of CT is to conceal carry. He was aware that I live in NB and did not mention anything about the town's ordinance, neither did the NBPD when they issued me the permit application. Couple days ago I wanted to find out if there are any laws regarding the time of the response from the town (8 weeks had already passed since i was fingerprinted) and that's what brought me here. I learned that CT is an OC state and that NB has this ordinance banning the CC. Where else should I go look for clarification on this issue? Town hall? NBPD? DPS? Lawyer? I know that your response will be to OC in NB; however i really don't think it is a good idea (no, i am not fearful) I just don't want (or need) to have any hassle with the PD, courts etc. Im a law abiding citizen, and I want it to stay that way. Furthermore I live near the CCSU area, my next concern is the CCSU PD. I already started thinking that the easiest way will be to just move out from here...
    Thanks guy any help is very appreciated.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Who was your instructor? He certainly overstepped his bounds of instruction and provided false information.

    ---

    I am not sure what 'clarification' you are looking for. Those are the facts that exist. No one is going to be able to give you clarification that makes those facts disappear.

    If you want to obey CT state law and New Britain's ordinance, you must open carry. If you care only about state law, and not about New Britain's ordinance, concealed means concealed.

    Personally, I tend to open carry most places, especially in New Britain. I do understand that some people prefer discreet carry over open carry, but the laws are the laws.

    There is little 'grey area' left with regards to the legality of open carry, but there is still plenty left with state preemption on firearms laws in CT. I am unaware of the New Britain or New London ordinances being challenged in court yet.

    BTW - I am a law abiding citizen, I open carry, I have both been arrested and hassled by the police. And I am *still* a law abiding citizen. Following the law is what makes me a law abiding citizen, regardless of rogue police officers who choose to selectively enforce those laws.
    Last edited by Rich B; 10-04-2011 at 02:18 PM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    Where to start.

    As an instructor, I have to say your instructor has serious issues misinforming his students like this.

    New Britain has an ordinance against concealed carry. Now, that being said, it is really, unenforceable. The State of Connecticut, Office of Legislative Research had already addressed issues regarding towns and their own ordinances and stated that the courts generally side with the intent of the state law, not the town ordinance.

    I, now a New Britain resident, flat out challenge them. Open Carry is indeed legal, their ordinance says I can't conceal, so I completely open carry my XD9 in a Blackhawk Serpa holster.

    Many cops have said they would arrest me, but none have as of yet. I have an attorney, I'm willing to test them on it.

    The Board of Firearms Permit Examiners has already ruled on the issue of open carry and stated that open carry, in and of itself, is legal.

    As for the Central area, not much they CCSU cops can really do to you. Whether your not breaking the law on a public street or not breaking a law near a university - completely indifferent!

    If you want to get together and discuss any of the issues some time, drop me a PM.

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

  4. #4
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    Damn it Rich,

    Had to sneak in under me while I wrote my long as hell reply!!!

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

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    Smile

    sneaking pink shirt Rich.LOL.

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    I live in New Britain, and I both OC and CC (CC when it's f'n raining, like today) and haven't had any hassles with the local cops. I've had a couple question OC and I pointed them to the OLR findings. Both were sincerely asking a question, not busting my chops.

    So, OC away!!

  7. #7
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MGoduto View Post
    OC away!!
    Sounds like a Billy Mays pitch!!!

    But, so far, no issues here as well. We'll see how this goes!

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

  8. #8
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    Dont worry about CCSU. I carried when I was a 21 yr old student at SCSU.

    THERE IS NO LAW PROHIBITING CARRY ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES.

    Sorry for the all caps. But you should not be afraid.

    There has been a fair amount of talk about NBs ordinance and preemption. The reality is I dont know of anyone ever being charged in NB under that ordinance.

    Very simply, just wear the gun (open or concealed) and do what you normally do.
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  9. #9
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    As I understand it, the guidelines are for K-12 schools and not secondary education.

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    As I understand it, the guidelines are for K-12 schools and not secondary education.
    This is true, although people have been arrested for it all the same. Much like open carry, the police apparently don't want to correctly administer the laws.


    Also:


    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.cga.ct.gov/2011/pub/chap529.htm#Sec29-28.htm

    Sec. 29-28. Permit for sale at retail of pistol or revolver. Permit to carry pistol or revolver. Confidentiality of name and address of permit holder. Permits for out-of-state residents. (a) No person who sells ten or more pistols or revolvers in a calendar year or is a federally-licensed firearm dealer shall advertise, sell, deliver, or offer or expose for sale or delivery, or have in such person's possession with intent to sell or deliver, any pistol or revolver at retail without having a permit therefor issued as provided in this subsection. The chief of police or, where there is no chief of police, the warden of the borough or the first selectman of the town, as the case may be, may, upon the application of any person, issue a permit in such form as may be prescribed by the Commissioner of Public Safety for the sale at retail of pistols and revolvers within the jurisdiction of the authority issuing such permit. No permit for the sale at retail of any pistol or revolver shall be issued unless the applicant holds a valid eligibility certificate for a pistol or revolver issued pursuant to section 29-36f or a valid state permit to carry a pistol or revolver issued pursuant to subsection (b) of this section and the applicant submits documentation sufficient to establish that local zoning requirements have been met for the location where the sale is to take place except that any person selling or exchanging a pistol or revolver for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby or who sells all or part of such person's personal collection of pistols or revolvers shall not be required to submit such documentation for the location where the sale or exchange is to take place.

    (b) Upon the application of any person having a bona fide residence or place of business within the jurisdiction of any such authority, such chief of police, warden or selectman may issue a temporary state permit to such person to carry a pistol or revolver within the state, provided such authority shall find that such applicant intends to make no use of any pistol or revolver which such applicant may be permitted to carry under such permit other than a lawful use and that such person is a suitable person to receive such permit. No state or temporary state permit to carry a pistol or revolver shall be issued under this subsection if the applicant (1) has failed to successfully complete a course approved by the Commissioner of Public Safety in the safety and use of pistols and revolvers including, but not limited to, a safety or training course in the use of pistols and revolvers available to the public offered by a law enforcement agency, a private or public educational institution or a firearms training school, utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association or the Department of Environmental Protection and a safety or training course in the use of pistols or revolvers conducted by an instructor certified by the state or the National Rifle Association, (2) has been convicted of a felony or of a violation of subsection (c) of section 21a-279, section 53a-58, 53a-61, 53a-61a, 53a-62, 53a-63, 53a-96, 53a-175, 53a-176, 53a-178 or 53a-181d, (3) has been convicted as delinquent for the commission of a serious juvenile offense, as defined in section 46b-120, (4) has been discharged from custody within the preceding twenty years after having been found not guilty of a crime by reason of mental disease or defect pursuant to section 53a-13, (5) has been confined in a hospital for persons with psychiatric disabilities, as defined in section 17a-495, within the preceding twelve months by order of a probate court, (6) is subject to a restraining or protective order issued by a court in a case involving the use, attempted use or threatened use of physical force against another person, (7) is subject to a firearms seizure order issued pursuant to subsection (d) of section 29-38c after notice and hearing, ( is prohibited from shipping, transporting, possessing or receiving a firearm pursuant to 18 USC 922(g)(4), (9) is an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States, or (10) is less than twenty-one years of age. Nothing in this section shall require any person who holds a valid permit to carry a pistol or revolver on October 1, 1994, to participate in any additional training in the safety and use of pistols and revolvers. Upon issuance of a temporary state permit to the applicant, the local authority shall forward the original application to the commissioner. Not later than sixty days after receiving a temporary state permit, an applicant shall appear at a location designated by the commissioner to receive the state permit. Said commissioner may then issue, to any holder of any temporary state permit, a state permit to carry a pistol or revolver within the state. Upon issuance of the state permit, the commissioner shall make available to the permit holder a copy of the law regarding the permit holder's responsibility to report the loss or theft of a firearm and the penalties associated with the failure to comply with such law. Upon issuance of the state permit, the commissioner shall forward a record of such permit to the local authority issuing the temporary state permit. The commissioner shall retain records of all applications, whether approved or denied. The copy of the state permit delivered to the permittee shall be laminated and shall contain a full-face photograph of such permittee. A person holding a state permit issued pursuant to this subsection shall notify the issuing authority within two business days of any change of such person's address. The notification shall include the old address and the new address of such person.

    (c) No issuing authority may require any sworn member of the Department of Public Safety or an organized local police department to furnish such sworn member's residence address in a permit application. The issuing authority shall allow each such sworn member who has a permit to carry a pistol or revolver issued by such authority, to revise such member's application to include a business or post office address in lieu of the residence address. The issuing authority shall notify each such member of the right to revise such application.

    (d) Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 1-210 and 1-211, the name and address of a person issued a permit to sell at retail pistols and revolvers pursuant to subsection (a) of this section or a state or a temporary state permit to carry a pistol or revolver pursuant to subsection (b) of this section, or a local permit to carry pistols and revolvers issued by local authorities prior to October 1, 2001, shall be confidential and shall not be disclosed, except (1) such information may be disclosed to law enforcement officials acting in the performance of their duties, (2) the issuing authority may disclose such information to the extent necessary to comply with a request made pursuant to section 29-33 for verification that such state or temporary state permit is still valid and has not been suspended or revoked, and the local authority may disclose such information to the extent necessary to comply with a request made pursuant to section 29-33 for verification that a local permit is still valid and has not been suspended or revoked, and (3) such information may be disclosed to the Commissioner of Mental Health and Addiction Services to carry out the provisions of subsection (c) of section 17a-500.

    (e) The issuance of any permit to carry a pistol or revolver does not thereby authorize the possession or carrying of a pistol or revolver in any premises where the possession or carrying of a pistol or revolver is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the person who owns or exercises control over such premises.

    (f) Any bona fide resident of the United States having no bona fide residence or place of business within the jurisdiction of any local authority in the state, but who has a permit or license to carry a pistol or revolver issued by the authority of another state or subdivision of the United States, may apply directly to the Commissioner of Public Safety for a permit to carry a pistol or revolver in this state. All provisions of subsections (b), (c), (d) and (e) of this section shall apply to applications for a permit received by the commissioner under this subsection.
    When you carry someplace where it is forbidden (I am sure it would have to be posted or somehow expressed to you), your permit is no longer valid.

    Knowingly carrying your firearm where it is prohibited is not a great idea.

  11. #11
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    Correct, but doesn't the "posted in a prominent place" rule come into play?

    Entrances, doorways, etc.

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Rich B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    Correct, but doesn't the "posted in a prominent place" rule come into play?

    Entrances, doorways, etc.

    Jonathan
    Where have you ever seen anything like this in the CT statutes?

    This would be a potential defense in court, but there is no such establishment in CT law that I know of. Reading and signing off on an employer or university's rule book would certainly qualify I am sure.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by KIX View Post
    As I understand it, the guidelines are for K-12 schools and not secondary education.

    Jonathan
    Thats not right.
    A primary school is k-9
    A secondary school is 9-12.

  14. #14
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    Let me rephrase that.... I meant post secondary education.

    The laws are for primary and secondary education.

    Clear as mud?

    Long night/day!!!

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

  15. #15
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    The bottom line is that you can not legally bring a gun onto the property of a K - 12 school.

    But it is perfectly legal to bring a loaded gun onto the grounds of a college, subject to the whole property owner/controller disallowing stuff.

  16. #16
    Regular Member KIX's Avatar
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    Yep.

    There was some good info on the Students for Campus Carry group (I think the former president was a CCSU student).

    Jonathan
    www.ctpistolpermitissues.com - tracking all the local issuing authority, DPS and other insanity with permit issues
    www.ctgunsafety.com - my blog and growing list of links useful to gun owners (especially in Connecticut).

    Rich B: My favorite argument against OC being legal in CT is "I have never seen someone OC in CT".
    I have never seen a person drink tea from a coke bottle while standing on their head, that doesn't mean it is illegal.

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