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Thread: University of Mary Washington - Whatever came of that?

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    University of Mary Washington - Whatever came of that?

    I've looked for some solid answers to this, but nothing has really given me a confident response.

    I'm going to be visiting a friend (a UMW alumni) next week in Fredericksburg, and she wants to give me the whole tourist experience, including a tour of campus. While I'll most likely be CCing, I'll still be venturing in and out of probably several campus buildings.

    Now, I'm not a student, and she has since graduated, so we're not facing any risk of expulsion or administrative action. My only concern is the legality of things. The last place I want to search for answers is from UMW directly, as I'm sure I won't get a completely honest answer from their office of visitor relations.

    Does anyone know (and can preferably cite) whether or not is it legal or illegal for a citizen to carry onto campus and inside campus buildings?

    Thanks for your help, folks!
    ~Jonathan

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonton View Post
    I've looked for some solid answers to this, but nothing has really given me a confident response.

    I'm going to be visiting a friend (a UMW alumni) next week in Fredericksburg, and she wants to give me the whole tourist experience, including a tour of campus. While I'll most likely be CCing, I'll still be venturing in and out of probably several campus buildings.

    Now, I'm not a student, and she has since graduated, so we're not facing any risk of expulsion or administrative action. My only concern is the legality of things. The last place I want to search for answers is from UMW directly, as I'm sure I won't get a completely honest answer from their office of visitor relations.

    Does anyone know (and can preferably cite) whether or not is it legal or illegal for a citizen to carry onto campus and inside campus buildings?

    Thanks for your help, folks!
    ~Jonathan
    If you have a permit, you're OK according to Cucinelli. Who knows....keep it concealed and who cares!

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    Regular Member Baked on Grease's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    If you have a permit, you're OK according to Cucinelli. Who knows....keep it concealed and who cares!
    From what I understand, you can legaly OC outside the buildings, but not inside. If you go inside you must have a CHP, and it is understood that needing one you would have to CC inside, as your CHP does not cover OC.

    Now, while OC may be legal outside campus buildings, it is up to you whether it is smart at this point in time to openly display a firearm on campus. Remember the VT scare a month or two ago? That may not have even been a gun carrier, but a kid bringing a bong inside and covering with a cloth to hide it's true nature. If they react that badly to something they admitted on camera is legal... Well it's your decision. We may not like it, but we can work to change it, until then "stay safe".

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    Carrying an XDm 9mm with Hornady Critical Defense hollowpoint. Soon to be carrying a Ruger along with it....

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    in my original post, i said 'most likely be CCing'. i should have been more clear. what i meant was 'if i decide to carry on campus, it WILL be CCed'.

    thanks for the responses guys - that was my understanding as well. i know GMU and VCU both have policies written in stone regarding ANYBODY carrying (student or not), but I CC at other colleges around the state fairly frequently. i just know that there was an issue (or was it a non-issue) at UMW a little while back, and I wanted to be sure that there wasn't a more defined legal explanation which prohibited firearms.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    The local newspaper published an article about this when Cuccinelli's opinion was first issued.

    A pertinent excerpt:

    An attorney general ruling about guns on campuses shouldn't change the University of Mary Washington's practices.

    That's according to early readings of the opinion, said Rick Pearce, UMW's acting vice president of administration and finance.

    Pearce said UMW's policies are less restrictive than those of the University of Virginia, the institution specifically addressed in last week's opinion from Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli.

    Pearce said that at UMW students aren't allowed to carry guns but the public is.

    "We ask them to avoid being in buildings and being in large events," Pearce said. "[But] we very much recognize that people have a right to carry a weapon."
    I'm pretty sure they have policy for the campus community, but I haven't looked to see if they have a policy that specifically addresses visitors. It would not surprise me if they do not.

    TFred

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    That's a fairly reassuring statement. He politely asks that we try to avoid it, but leaves it open ended and ultimately at the discretion of the public. I'm only going to be passing through, so if I'm confronted (which I shouldn't be, because it shouldn't be seen to begin with), I can simply leave.

    A very helpful article, thank you.

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    I've OC'ed at Mary Washington and in one of their buildings. The campus police chief and one of the big wig administrators were both present at the meeting which I attended. This was several years ago. I was attending to support one of the students for concealed carry at the time.

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    Regular Member CHILINVLN's Avatar
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    I personally wouldn't do it and just focus on having a good time while on campus for those few hours. I think your risks of having a potential confrontation which would create a legal issue for you is MUCH higher than your risk of using it in self defense.

    Just my 2 cents, which obviously will not align with the majority of the users on this forum. But, it's my honest opinion.

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Thumbs down I personally wouldn't do it

    Quote Originally Posted by CHILINVLN View Post
    I personally wouldn't do it and just focus on having a good time while on campus for those few hours. I think your risks of having a potential confrontation which would create a legal issue for you is MUCH higher than your risk of using it in self defense.

    Just my 2 cents, which obviously will not align with the majority of the users on this forum. But, it's my honest opinion.

    WOW!!!!
    That statement can be said about every day life.
    Baa Baa!!!!!


    Don't OC as you are more lilely to have and negative confrontation with LE than a SD situation.
    Where's the BS meter!!!!!!!!


    If he/she knows how to CC properly there should be no issues.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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    Regular Member CHILINVLN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent19 View Post
    WOW!!!!
    That statement can be said about every day life.
    Baa Baa!!!!!


    Don't OC as you are more lilely to have and negative confrontation with LE than a SD situation.
    Where's the BS meter!!!!!!!!


    If he/she knows how to CC properly there should be no issues.
    and here we go... just as expected. (rollseyes)

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHILINVLN View Post
    and here we go... just as expected. (rollseyes)
    I agree with the thought but not the practice.

    That Chilling Effect is what the Police are hoping for and the exact same thing that drives people to give in and get a CHP. If we don't stand up for our rights we'll lose them and it will be because of well meaning but naive advice like that!

    If he doesn't want to carry, that's fine with me. Unlike some of the CHPpers, I don't think one HAS to carry everywhere....but let him make that decision for his own reasons, not because he's afraid of getting into trouble for doing something that's perfectly legal.
    Last edited by peter nap; 10-07-2011 at 12:28 PM.

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    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I agree with the thought but not the practice.

    That Chilling Effect is what the Police are hoping for and the exact same thing that drives people to give in and get a CHP. If we don't stand up for our rights we'll lose them and it will be because of well meaning but naive advice like that!

    If he doesn't want to carry, that's fine with me. Unlike some of the CHPpers, I don't think one HAS to carry everywhere....but let him make that decision for his own reasons, not because he's afraid of getting into trouble for doing something that's perfectly legal.
    +1

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHILINVLN View Post
    I personally wouldn't do it and just focus on having a good time while on campus for those few hours. I think your risks of having a potential confrontation which would create a legal issue for you is MUCH higher than your risk of using it in self defense.

    Just my 2 cents, which obviously will not align with the majority of the users on this forum. But, it's my honest opinion.
    I'm a little confused by this response. Has there been anything in this thread or any other source of information that would lead you to believe that there might be any risk of confrontation? The demeanor I've taken from all the published accounts is that even if you are discovered, and even if someone decides they don't like it, the worst that might happen is that they ask you to go outside, if you happen to be in a building at the time.

    Perhaps an important part of the equation is the behavior of the person... if they are partying it up, intoxicated and acting all obnoxious, etc, I can see where this could be a big problem. Maybe the key is what do you mean by "having a good time"?

    TFred

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    I'm a little confused by this response. Has there been anything in this thread or any other source of information that would lead you to believe that there might be any risk of confrontation? The demeanor I've taken from all the published accounts is that even if you are discovered, and even if someone decides they don't like it, the worst that might happen is that they ask you to go outside, if you happen to be in a building at the time.

    Perhaps an important part of the equation is the behavior of the person... if they are partying it up, intoxicated and acting all obnoxious, etc, I can see where this could be a big problem. Maybe the key is what do you mean by "having a good time"?

    TFred
    It's a University and of course there is a higher risk of confrontation. For that reason and that reason alone, I wouldn't bother and just spend my time walking around with friends, taking pictures, sitting on a park bench, or whatever he has planned. That's my point, that's my belief, simple as that.

    Whereas some of you will opt to OC and use this as an excellent time to wear a recorder and stand up for your rights, while others choose to CC and just "be prepared", this is where I would choose neither and just visit the campus and not carry at all.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHILINVLN View Post
    It's a University and of course there is a higher risk of confrontation. For that reason and that reason alone, I wouldn't bother and just spend my time walking around with friends, taking pictures, sitting on a park bench, or whatever he has planned. That's my point, that's my belief, simple as that.

    Whereas some of you will opt to OC and use this as an excellent time to wear a recorder and stand up for your rights, while others choose to CC and just "be prepared", this is where I would choose neither and just visit the campus and not carry at all.
    I don't remember anyone talking about doing this there either. But either way... we all get to choose what we wish to do.

    TFred

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonton View Post
    I'm going to be visiting a friend (a UMW alumni) next week in Fredericksburg...
    By the way, I highly recommend the Trolley tour. It's about 75 minutes long, and I've done it about 4 times myself over the years, each time learning new things.

    http://www.fredericksburgtrolley.com/times.html

    TFred

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHILINVLN View Post
    I personally wouldn't do it and just focus on having a good time while on campus for those few hours. I think your risks of having a potential confrontation which would create a legal issue for you is MUCH higher than your risk of using it in self defense.

    Just my 2 cents, which obviously will not align with the majority of the users on this forum. But, it's my honest opinion.
    Your opinion is that you are clairvoyant. Interesting.
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

    Hi, I'm hypercritical. But I mean no harm, I just like to try to look deeply at life

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    Your opinion is that you are clairvoyant. Interesting.
    He's entitled to his opinion Badger! I don't happen to agree with it, but I wholeheartedly endorse his right to have it. I'm not sure why you're throwing stones. As I recall you won't OC because you're terrified of "Being taken down to the pavement".

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Thumbs down stand up for your rights

    Quote Originally Posted by CHILINVLN View Post
    It's a University and of course there is a higher risk of confrontation. For that reason and that reason alone, I wouldn't bother and just spend my time walking around with friends, taking pictures, sitting on a park bench, or whatever he has planned. That's my point, that's my belief, simple as that.

    Whereas some of you will opt to OC and use this as an excellent time to wear a recorder and stand up for your rights, while others choose to CC and just "be prepared", this is where I would choose neither and just visit the campus and not carry at all.
    Funny looking at this thread you are the only person to suggest how the Op should conduct himself.
    The OP asked for a cite as to policy and that is what other's stated, WM's policy or their experience.

    You Ass=u-me what others would do.

    Like others have stated we don't care if the OP carries OC/CC or NC it's his choice, risk vs reward.
    Last edited by Marco; 10-07-2011 at 08:20 PM.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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    Regular Member CHILINVLN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent19 View Post
    Funny looking at this thread you are the only person to suggest how the Op should conduct himself.
    The OP asked for a cite as to policy and that is what other's stated, WM's policy or their experience.

    You Ass=u-me what others would do.

    Like others have stated we don't care if the OP carries OC/CC or NC it's his choice, risk vs reward.
    I made a suggestion to Jonathan in this thread because I'm not just another user on this forum, I'm a personal friend of his. Next time, I'll go with my first instinct and make a phone call rather than post.

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    Haha...sorry 'bout that steve - although you did kinda ask for it. ya know, telling someone in a forum in which people fight for the right to carry...to...well, not carry :-P

    nonetheless - it seems that everyone is concerned about what the OP (me) 'should' or 'shouldn't' do, but my original question seems to have been of minimal concern amongst the shooting (no pun intended) of the man with the different opinion.

    i -do- carry everywhere i can, particularly in areas where criminals are commonplace (for example: the town where i live, college campuses, etc). i'm not overly religious about it, but i do feel naked without it. i won't put up a huge fight in places where i know carry is highly prohibited or illegal, but if i can get a solid answer that carry IS legal in a place in which i'll be spending time, you bet your bottom dollar i'll be armed.

    I appreciate everyone's concern, and steve, try not to shoot yourself in the foot in front of so many people next time :-P

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    He's entitled to his opinion Badger! I don't happen to agree with it, but I wholeheartedly endorse his right to have it. I'm not sure why you're throwing stones. As I recall you won't OC because you're terrified of "Being taken down to the pavement".
    You are harshly cruel, if accurate. Why oh why are you so snarky? Oh, wait, it is I who was being snarky.

    Being an OC ***** doesn't mean I can't mock others, ya know...just sayin'.
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

    Hi, I'm hypercritical. But I mean no harm, I just like to try to look deeply at life

  23. #23
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Will Virginia ever be Risk-Free?

    Will the day ever come when OC in Virginia is Risk-Free and then the only risk is being confronted by bad guys?

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    Regular Member mk4's Avatar
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    ^^^
    if it ever comes, it'll be a great day!

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    Will the day ever come when OC in Virginia is Risk-Free and then the only risk is being confronted by bad guys?
    Obviously the answer is no, simply because LEOs are human beings, who sometimes put their own agenda above their willingness to properly do the job. This is not unique to law enforcement. LEOs sometimes violate civil rights with or without OC being a factor. The problem is not based on OC, but on the human factor.

    TFred

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