• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

University of Mary Washington - Whatever came of that?

Jonton

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2010
Messages
108
Location
Sterling, Virginia, United States
I've looked for some solid answers to this, but nothing has really given me a confident response.

I'm going to be visiting a friend (a UMW alumni) next week in Fredericksburg, and she wants to give me the whole tourist experience, including a tour of campus. While I'll most likely be CCing, I'll still be venturing in and out of probably several campus buildings.

Now, I'm not a student, and she has since graduated, so we're not facing any risk of expulsion or administrative action. My only concern is the legality of things. The last place I want to search for answers is from UMW directly, as I'm sure I won't get a completely honest answer from their office of visitor relations.

Does anyone know (and can preferably cite) whether or not is it legal or illegal for a citizen to carry onto campus and inside campus buildings?

Thanks for your help, folks!
~Jonathan
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
I've looked for some solid answers to this, but nothing has really given me a confident response.

I'm going to be visiting a friend (a UMW alumni) next week in Fredericksburg, and she wants to give me the whole tourist experience, including a tour of campus. While I'll most likely be CCing, I'll still be venturing in and out of probably several campus buildings.

Now, I'm not a student, and she has since graduated, so we're not facing any risk of expulsion or administrative action. My only concern is the legality of things. The last place I want to search for answers is from UMW directly, as I'm sure I won't get a completely honest answer from their office of visitor relations.

Does anyone know (and can preferably cite) whether or not is it legal or illegal for a citizen to carry onto campus and inside campus buildings?

Thanks for your help, folks!
~Jonathan

If you have a permit, you're OK according to Cucinelli. Who knows....keep it concealed and who cares!
 

Baked on Grease

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2011
Messages
629
Location
Sterling, Va.
If you have a permit, you're OK according to Cucinelli. Who knows....keep it concealed and who cares!

From what I understand, you can legaly OC outside the buildings, but not inside. If you go inside you must have a CHP, and it is understood that needing one you would have to CC inside, as your CHP does not cover OC.

Now, while OC may be legal outside campus buildings, it is up to you whether it is smart at this point in time to openly display a firearm on campus. Remember the VT scare a month or two ago? That may not have even been a gun carrier, but a kid bringing a bong inside and covering with a cloth to hide it's true nature. If they react that badly to something they admitted on camera is legal... Well it's your decision. We may not like it, but we can work to change it, until then "stay safe".

Sent using tapatalk
 

Jonton

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2010
Messages
108
Location
Sterling, Virginia, United States
in my original post, i said 'most likely be CCing'. i should have been more clear. what i meant was 'if i decide to carry on campus, it WILL be CCed'.

thanks for the responses guys - that was my understanding as well. i know GMU and VCU both have policies written in stone regarding ANYBODY carrying (student or not), but I CC at other colleges around the state fairly frequently. i just know that there was an issue (or was it a non-issue) at UMW a little while back, and I wanted to be sure that there wasn't a more defined legal explanation which prohibited firearms.
 

TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
The local newspaper published an article about this when Cuccinelli's opinion was first issued.

A pertinent excerpt:

An attorney general ruling about guns on campuses shouldn't change the University of Mary Washington's practices.

That's according to early readings of the opinion, said Rick Pearce, UMW's acting vice president of administration and finance.

Pearce said UMW's policies are less restrictive than those of the University of Virginia, the institution specifically addressed in last week's opinion from Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli.

Pearce said that at UMW students aren't allowed to carry guns but the public is.

"We ask them to avoid being in buildings and being in large events," Pearce said. "[But] we very much recognize that people have a right to carry a weapon."

I'm pretty sure they have policy for the campus community, but I haven't looked to see if they have a policy that specifically addresses visitors. It would not surprise me if they do not.

TFred
 

Jonton

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2010
Messages
108
Location
Sterling, Virginia, United States
That's a fairly reassuring statement. He politely asks that we try to avoid it, but leaves it open ended and ultimately at the discretion of the public. I'm only going to be passing through, so if I'm confronted (which I shouldn't be, because it shouldn't be seen to begin with), I can simply leave.

A very helpful article, thank you.
 

kaiheitai17

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Messages
619
Location
Islamabad, Pakistan
I've OC'ed at Mary Washington and in one of their buildings. The campus police chief and one of the big wig administrators were both present at the meeting which I attended. This was several years ago. I was attending to support one of the students for concealed carry at the time.
 

CHILINVLN

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Messages
95
Location
Fairfax, VA
I personally wouldn't do it and just focus on having a good time while on campus for those few hours. I think your risks of having a potential confrontation which would create a legal issue for you is MUCH higher than your risk of using it in self defense.

Just my 2 cents, which obviously will not align with the majority of the users on this forum. But, it's my honest opinion.
 

Marco

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2007
Messages
3,905
Location
Greene County
I personally wouldn't do it

I personally wouldn't do it and just focus on having a good time while on campus for those few hours. I think your risks of having a potential confrontation which would create a legal issue for you is MUCH higher than your risk of using it in self defense.

Just my 2 cents, which obviously will not align with the majority of the users on this forum. But, it's my honest opinion.


WOW!!!!
That statement can be said about every day life.
Baa Baa!!!!!


Don't OC as you are more lilely to have and negative confrontation with LE than a SD situation.
Where's the BS meter!!!!!!!!


If he/she knows how to CC properly there should be no issues.
 

CHILINVLN

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Messages
95
Location
Fairfax, VA
WOW!!!!
That statement can be said about every day life.
Baa Baa!!!!!


Don't OC as you are more lilely to have and negative confrontation with LE than a SD situation.
Where's the BS meter!!!!!!!!


If he/she knows how to CC properly there should be no issues.

and here we go... just as expected. (rollseyes)
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
and here we go... just as expected. (rollseyes)

I agree with the thought but not the practice.

That Chilling Effect is what the Police are hoping for and the exact same thing that drives people to give in and get a CHP. If we don't stand up for our rights we'll lose them and it will be because of well meaning but naive advice like that!

If he doesn't want to carry, that's fine with me. Unlike some of the CHPpers, I don't think one HAS to carry everywhere....but let him make that decision for his own reasons, not because he's afraid of getting into trouble for doing something that's perfectly legal.
 
Last edited:

Wolf_shadow

Activist Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
1,215
Location
Accomac, Virginia, USA
I agree with the thought but not the practice.

That Chilling Effect is what the Police are hoping for and the exact same thing that drives people to give in and get a CHP. If we don't stand up for our rights we'll lose them and it will be because of well meaning but naive advice like that!

If he doesn't want to carry, that's fine with me. Unlike some of the CHPpers, I don't think one HAS to carry everywhere....but let him make that decision for his own reasons, not because he's afraid of getting into trouble for doing something that's perfectly legal.

+1
 

TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
I personally wouldn't do it and just focus on having a good time while on campus for those few hours. I think your risks of having a potential confrontation which would create a legal issue for you is MUCH higher than your risk of using it in self defense.

Just my 2 cents, which obviously will not align with the majority of the users on this forum. But, it's my honest opinion.
I'm a little confused by this response. Has there been anything in this thread or any other source of information that would lead you to believe that there might be any risk of confrontation? The demeanor I've taken from all the published accounts is that even if you are discovered, and even if someone decides they don't like it, the worst that might happen is that they ask you to go outside, if you happen to be in a building at the time.

Perhaps an important part of the equation is the behavior of the person... if they are partying it up, intoxicated and acting all obnoxious, etc, I can see where this could be a big problem. Maybe the key is what do you mean by "having a good time"?

TFred
 

CHILINVLN

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Messages
95
Location
Fairfax, VA
I'm a little confused by this response. Has there been anything in this thread or any other source of information that would lead you to believe that there might be any risk of confrontation? The demeanor I've taken from all the published accounts is that even if you are discovered, and even if someone decides they don't like it, the worst that might happen is that they ask you to go outside, if you happen to be in a building at the time.

Perhaps an important part of the equation is the behavior of the person... if they are partying it up, intoxicated and acting all obnoxious, etc, I can see where this could be a big problem. Maybe the key is what do you mean by "having a good time"?

TFred

It's a University and of course there is a higher risk of confrontation. For that reason and that reason alone, I wouldn't bother and just spend my time walking around with friends, taking pictures, sitting on a park bench, or whatever he has planned. That's my point, that's my belief, simple as that.

Whereas some of you will opt to OC and use this as an excellent time to wear a recorder and stand up for your rights, while others choose to CC and just "be prepared", this is where I would choose neither and just visit the campus and not carry at all.
 

TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
It's a University and of course there is a higher risk of confrontation. For that reason and that reason alone, I wouldn't bother and just spend my time walking around with friends, taking pictures, sitting on a park bench, or whatever he has planned. That's my point, that's my belief, simple as that.

Whereas some of you will opt to OC and use this as an excellent time to wear a recorder and stand up for your rights, while others choose to CC and just "be prepared", this is where I would choose neither and just visit the campus and not carry at all.
I don't remember anyone talking about doing this there either. But either way... we all get to choose what we wish to do.

TFred
 

Badger Johnson

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
1,213
Location
USA
I personally wouldn't do it and just focus on having a good time while on campus for those few hours. I think your risks of having a potential confrontation which would create a legal issue for you is MUCH higher than your risk of using it in self defense.

Just my 2 cents, which obviously will not align with the majority of the users on this forum. But, it's my honest opinion.

Your opinion is that you are clairvoyant. Interesting.
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
Your opinion is that you are clairvoyant. Interesting.

He's entitled to his opinion Badger! I don't happen to agree with it, but I wholeheartedly endorse his right to have it. I'm not sure why you're throwing stones. As I recall you won't OC because you're terrified of "Being taken down to the pavement".
 

Marco

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2007
Messages
3,905
Location
Greene County
stand up for your rights

It's a University and of course there is a higher risk of confrontation. For that reason and that reason alone, I wouldn't bother and just spend my time walking around with friends, taking pictures, sitting on a park bench, or whatever he has planned. That's my point, that's my belief, simple as that.

Whereas some of you will opt to OC and use this as an excellent time to wear a recorder and stand up for your rights, while others choose to CC and just "be prepared", this is where I would choose neither and just visit the campus and not carry at all.

Funny looking at this thread you are the only person to suggest how the Op should conduct himself.
The OP asked for a cite as to policy and that is what other's stated, WM's policy or their experience.

You Ass=u-me what others would do.

Like others have stated we don't care if the OP carries OC/CC or NC it's his choice, risk vs reward.
 
Last edited:

CHILINVLN

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Messages
95
Location
Fairfax, VA
Funny looking at this thread you are the only person to suggest how the Op should conduct himself.
The OP asked for a cite as to policy and that is what other's stated, WM's policy or their experience.

You Ass=u-me what others would do.

Like others have stated we don't care if the OP carries OC/CC or NC it's his choice, risk vs reward.

I made a suggestion to Jonathan in this thread because I'm not just another user on this forum, I'm a personal friend of his. Next time, I'll go with my first instinct and make a phone call rather than post.
 
Top