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Thread: What ever happened to constitutional carry?

  1. #1
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    What ever happened to constitutional carry?

    When SB93 first hit the street it was directed toward constitutional carry. For reasons that are still not perfectly clear it was morphed into a hybred law. Part shall issue and part constitutional carry. One part that general public carry will uthorized by shall issue privilege and second that carry on one's property, in the home and in owned business to be constitutionally protected.

    A few influential external forces convinced the legislature to make that modification. Make it based on statements such as "We want to put something up for vote that is certain to pass" "We'll change it later" and of course influenced by Governor Walkers public message that he would be reluctant to sign any carry bill that did not have training requirements. The authors of what was to become Act 35, Senator Galloway and Representative Mursau attempted to placate us to this mutiny by pledging that they will introduce pure constitutional carry during the next legislative session.

    What bothers me most by those events is that I have an uneasy feeling that the mood of this forum has mellowed to a ambivalent conduct. Something like "Well we didn't get constitutional carry but we did get a darn good shall issue law. It only has minimal training requirements and it only costs fifty bucks for the permit. It's probably the best we can expect". Even MCX is no longer saying "No stinkin' permits".

    I know there are still some staunch supporters of constitutional carry on the forum that are presently concentrating on getting the "wrinkles" out of Act35 but I detect a softening toward constitutional carry even from them. We can not give up our pursuit for constitutional carry. We can not let the tyranny of the state legislature turn our constitutional right into a state controlled privilege. We must insist on making Act 35 totally constitutional so that we don't have to live with a hybred law that makes us need to determine when and under what conditions we are state privileged or constitutionally protected to carry a firearm for personal protection. Nothing demonstrates that more clearly than my personal situation. I live in a rural area. My mailbox is across the road. I can lawfully carry a concealed firearm all over my 75 acre farm but the second I step on the road to cross it to check for mail I must have a state licensed privilege to do so. How stupid is that? Even if I have no concern for the GFSZ, reciprocity or vehicle carry I legally need a CC permit to carry a concealed weapon to cross the road to check my mail. I suppose what I could do is put on an empty holster then carry concealed while on my land and then when I want to check themail take the firearm out and place it in the holster. When i return to my side of the road take the firearm out of the visible holster and conceal it again. That's a thought, NOT.

    When it gets near time for the next annual session of the legislature we must put unrelenting pressure on the authors and sponsors of Act 35 to live up to their pledge.

    End of my rant.
    Last edited by Captain Nemo; 10-07-2011 at 10:41 AM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    I agree with you. We need to keep the fire on high. We might not have gotten what we want, but we can still get it. It is just going to take more time.
    I am happy to see ANY CCW law pass in Wisconsin, but we are not done yet. We can make it a lot better.

    For the record, the author is/was on our side on this. She did her best, but had to change the bill to make sure it did pass. I guess the thinking was that it is a good start. First time in 150 years that we have any CCW. Now we need to stay on this to correct the law. I just hope it won't take 150 more years!

  3. #3
    McX
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    Even MCX is no longer saying "No stinkin' permits".


    Touche' there guy, you got me on that one.

  4. #4
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Nothing happened.

    We are re-circling the wagons. Watching the predicted/inevitable clusterf%ck play itself out.

    Thank you DOJ.

    Can't prove there is no blood running in the streets when it's not even Nov 1 yet. Nov 1 of 2016, 'cause at the rate the DOJ is moving that's how long it will take to get a permit.

    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  5. #5
    McX
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    i confess; i sold out to the man for a promice of cheeseburgers for life, and 600 billion,billion obama dollars- or roughly 68 cents.

  6. #6
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    I know most of us still want Constitutional Carry, but I'm sure most of us are focusing more at what is in front of us and the DOJ trying to screw us, many municipalities making illegal/unenforceable ordinances, Castle Doctrine, and trying to get Preemption stronger so municipalities cannot ban firearms in the buildings.

    I, of course, cannot speak for everyone, but it just the feeling I'm getting from everyone.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  7. #7
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    Nothing happened.

    We are re-circling the wagons. Watching the predicted/inevitable clusterf%ck play itself out.

    Thank you DOJ.

    Can't prove there is no blood running in the streets when it's not even Nov 1 yet. Nov 1 of 2016, 'cause at the rate the DOJ is moving that's how long it will take to get a permit.

    Nov 1-30, they have 45 days to issue and after Dec 1, they have 21 days. I'm sure the NRA would be all over them if the DOJ does not follow through. Speaking of the NRA, I'll wait to see what happens before I start contributing to them.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  8. #8
    McX
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Nov 1-30, they have 45 days to issue and after Dec 1, they have 21 days. I'm sure the NRA would be all over them if the DOJ does not follow through. Speaking of the NRA, I'll wait to see what happens before I start contributing to them.
    agreed
    (sent from the Lincoln Bedroom- The White House)

    i would comment further, but the secret service guy said my steak is burning on the grille in the Rose Garden.


    ok, i'm back.....just a minute- secret service guy, where's the beer around here? *burp*, so anyway, i never sold out nothing. man the toilet paper is realy nice here. tonight i'm going bowling in the basement!
    Last edited by McX; 10-07-2011 at 12:55 PM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    protias
    I know most of us still want Constitutional Carry, but I'm sure most of us are focusing more at what is in front of us and the DOJ trying to screw us, many municipalities making illegal/unenforceable ordinances, Castle Doctrine, and trying to get Preemption stronger so municipalities cannot ban firearms in the buildings.

    I, of course, cannot speak for everyone, but it just the feeling I'm getting from everyone.
    This....^^^^^^^^^

    As I have said in other posts, I am a true Consitutional Carry Supporter and as such, will continue to open carry after Nov. 1 or permit time or when ever.... Also stated in here and during recent a telephone conversation with my Rep. Ms. Kerkman.... Consitutional Carry will be a futue battle I will most certainly involved in...

    Snip...

    Nov 1-30, they have 45 days to issue and after Dec 1, they have 21 days. I'm sure the NRA would be all over them if the DOJ does not follow through.
    I am starting to wonder IF the DOJ will even have the applications ready by Nov. 1 If they are not follwing the letter of the law on traning requierments, etc., why would the follow the law on application availability deadlines....
    And as far as the NRA being "all over them".... Well Van Hollens public reaction to their letter ("They Should Be Thankfull") speaks volumes to his reaction to anyting the NRA has to say....

    It is not looking good...

    Outdoorsman1
    Last edited by Outdoorsman1; 10-07-2011 at 12:59 PM.
    "On the Plains of Hesitation bleach the bones of countless millions who, at the Dawn of Victory, sat down to wait - and waiting, died."

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  10. #10
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    What happened to Constitutional Carry? Simple, money talks and there is money to be made in the gun control business. Gun control is just control, guns have little to do with it.

    Try this, who has the money to influence gun legislation? Who has been outspoken and active for Constitutional Carry? Only democrat legislators give a crap about what their people think and say. Republicans are elected to exercise their principles, political, economic and legislative.

  11. #11
    McX
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    What happened to Constitutional Carry? Simple, money talks and there is money to be made in the gun control business. Gun control is just control, guns have little to do with it.

    Try this, who has the money to influence gun legislation? Who has been outspoken and active for Constitutional Carry? Only democrat legislators give a crap about what their people think and say. Republicans are elected to exercise their principles, political, economic and legislative.
    seems like everyone knows what's going on. say, i found this fancy office while i was wandering around here, no one's here, i think they left for the weekend. anyway, there's this briefcase on the desk here, and a red phone, instructions on the cards in the case say; pick up phone, when it is answered, read codes aloud into phone to launch. must be for pizza delivery..........i'll let ya know in a bit.

    hey, voice on the phone says select targets, where you guys at, i'll have them send you some pizzas too!
    Last edited by McX; 10-07-2011 at 01:28 PM.

  12. #12
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Captain, please be assured that I for one am not settling. I have been busy trying to fight the good fight doing what I can to stop local municipalities from further infringing on our rights. Also, the elected officials I have talked to have said they aren't willing to do anything until after Act 35 takes full effect. Once the dust settles, I will definitely start working for Constitutional Carry.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Ignorance, Prejudice and phobia by our Republican Representatives and our Governor is why we are here. It is offensive that they somehow believe a WI resident is less responsible, less able to show restraint and less competent than residents of so many other States which require no training or even minimal training with a negligible incident rate.
    The reality is that they have no faith in their own abilities to carry a holstered firearm safely and this lack of self-faith is projected on to each and every one of us.

  14. #14
    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    I have not given up. I may not even get a permit out of principle. Especially after this latest round of BS. I have enough training documentation to pass whatever they come up with, but this whole thing is ticking me off to no end. I've got your stinking permit right here!
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

  15. #15
    McX
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    everybody is right here, and everybody is p.o.'d. both sides of the isle couldnt wait to regulate us, and most importantly to draw revenue off of us. come nov. they will get a taste of the money, and from there it will be an uphill battle to break them of it. we all are prepared to fight, and so we shall. first we need to get past nov. get their steeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeenkin permits, then crank up the heat to demand they step aside, and let us be free men. talking to them or of it before then is a waste of breath, they are on their track now, and we have plenty to do with what they are trying to feed us. let's concentrate on the matters at hand, and instead of debating, plan our next move. we have some of the best and brightest on our side, and in our group(s).

    *final attempt at humor; some Chinese guy called, all mad, i think he said his pizza was delivered cold, i'm not sure, the line went dead at his end.

    added on eit; Glock, a buddy of mine sent this to me, and i thought of you immediately:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EbeqPynF2s
    Last edited by McX; 10-07-2011 at 03:29 PM.

  16. #16
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    We are moving toward Constitutional carry, as expected. Good progress in WI.

    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Nov 1-30, they have 45 days to issue and after Dec 1, they have 21 days. I'm sure the NRA would be all over them if the DOJ does not follow through. Speaking of the NRA, I'll wait to see what happens before I start contributing to them.
    We have Constitutional carry in Arizona. The incremental approach worked. We did not have as good as a state constitutional protection as Wisconsin to start with. We had a much more restrictive permit law to start with. There was a much more intrenched trainer/permit infrastructure to overcome. We have a more liberal State Supreme Court. We still got Constitutional carry.

    Wisconsin has put into effect a progression of events that well continue to Constitutional carry. It will take a lot of work. It will take activism and organization. It will happen.

    If Wisconsin had not enacted one of the absolute best Shall Issue laws in the entire nation, it would still be mired in a futile effort to go from no issue to Constitutional carry all at once. It is simply was too big a bite to swallow all at once, even though it came incredibly close. Incrementalism works. We did not dig ourselves this deep into this hole in one day or one decade. It will take time and effort to dig ourselves out. We are winning.

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Nov 1-30, they have 45 days to issue and after Dec 1, they have 21 days. I'm sure the NRA would be all over them if the DOJ does not follow through. Speaking of the NRA, I'll wait to see what happens before I start contributing to them.
    Remember those are working days, not concurrent days..
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  18. #18
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GLOCK21GB View Post
    Remember those are working days, not concurrent days..
    Please provide a cite for that. It doesn't say so in the law.

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    everybody is right here, and everybody is p.o.'d. both sides of the isle couldnt wait to regulate us, and most importantly to draw revenue off of us. come nov. they will get a taste of the money, and from there it will be an uphill battle to break them of it. we all are prepared to fight, and so we shall. first we need to get past nov. get their steeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeenkin permits, then crank up the heat to demand they step aside, and let us be free men. talking to them or of it before then is a waste of breath, they are on their track now, and we have plenty to do with what they are trying to feed us. let's concentrate on the matters at hand, and instead of debating, plan our next move. we have some of the best and brightest on our side, and in our group(s).

    *final attempt at humor; some Chinese guy called, all mad, i think he said his pizza was delivered cold, i'm not sure, the line went dead at his end.

    added on eit; Glock, a buddy of mine sent this to me, and i thought of you immediately:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EbeqPynF2s
    That was funny !!
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    Please provide a cite for that. It doesn't say so in the law.
    I have much better things to do , you can do your own searching for a cite or.... I guess well just see who is right & who is wrong, huh.
    Last edited by GLOCK21GB; 10-07-2011 at 04:05 PM.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  21. #21
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GLOCK21GB View Post
    I better things to do. I guess well just see who is right & who is wrong, huh.
    Wow! Maybe you should shut the **** up and not post **** if you aren't going to follow the rules.

    Here, I'll do it for you:

    175.60 (9) (b) Within 21 days after receiving a completeapplication under sub. (7), the department shall do one of
    the following:
    1. Issue the license and promptly send the licensee his
    or her license document by 1st class mail.
    2. Deny the application, but only if sub. (3) (a), (b),
    (c), (d), (e), (f), or (g) applies to the applicant. If the
    department denies the application, the department shall
    inform the applicant in writing, stating the reason and
    factual basis for the denial.
    Doesn't say business days like other laws, or excluding weekends or excluding holidays.
    Last edited by paul@paul-fisher.com; 10-07-2011 at 04:07 PM.

  22. #22
    McX
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    Gentlemen!~Please! you are upsetting the zombies! i suspect that if the DOJ is inundated with applications, they will claim manpower limitations, and delays will happen. and like any other government entity, good luck trying to pressure them to do anything. Kinda like when i complained to the dept. of corrections regarding my pet felon failing to keep his court ordered agreement. their heads went up and down, and little else occurred on my behalf. Splitting hairs on the terms will be academic, as they are the ones who control, they are the ones who issue the permits.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GLOCK21GB View Post
    Remember those are working days, not concurrent days..
    45 days NOT 45 working days.

    WISCONSIN’S NEW CARRYING CONCEALED WEAPON LAW QUESTIONS AND ANSWERSAUGUST 2, 2011
    [b]How long will it take to get a CCW license after I submit an application?[/]
    For completed applications received between November 1 and December 1,
    2011, DOJ shall issue or deny as soon as practicable and no longer than 45 days
    after receiving an application. Wis. Act 35, § 100(2).
    After December 1, 2011, DOJ must either issue a license or deny the license
    application within 21 days of receiving the completed application. Wis. Stat.
    § 175.60(9)(b).
    The above time limits do not apply to incomplete applications.
    SECTION 100.0Nonstatutory provisions.
    (2) Notwithstanding section 175.60 (9) (b) of the statutes,
    as created by this act, beginning on the effective date
    of this subsection and ending on the first day of the 5th
    month beginning after the effective date of this subsection,
    the department of justice shall, as soon as practicable
    and without delay, but no longer than 45 days, after
    receiving a complete application under section 175.60
    (7) of the statutes, as created by this act, for a license to
    carry a concealed weapon, do one of the following:
    (a) Issue the license and promptly send the licensee
    his or her license document by 1st class mail.
    (b) Deny the application, but only if section 175.60
    (3) (a), (b), (c), (d), (e), (f), or (g) of the statutes, as created
    by this act, applies to the applicant. If the department
    denies the application, the department shall inform the
    applicant in writing, stating the reason and factual basis
    for the denial.

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    45 days NOT 45 working days.
    ok, that's what it says, my bad ....too bad our AG say's he expects at least 100,000 + applications on the first day ON THE FIRST DAY ...does ANYONE HERE think they are all going to get their permits with-in 45+21 concurrent days ???? can we say 2 -4 month instant back log ?? they have what 12 people handling these permits , so regardless of what the law says....there is no way in hell they can process 100,000 + permits in that time frame, plus the 45,000 permits that people apply for on Nov 2nd & the 30,000 people apply for on Nov 3rd, etc, etc, etc.........


    People can start applying for permits from DOJ on Nov. 1. Van Hollen says he expects at least 100,000 people to apply on the first day

    http://www.postcrescent.com/article/...04&located=rss
    Last edited by GLOCK21GB; 10-07-2011 at 05:31 PM.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    Wow! Maybe you should shut the **** up and not post **** if you aren't going to follow the rules.

    Here, I'll do it for you:



    Doesn't say business days like other laws, or excluding weekends or excluding holidays.
    --Moderator Edited--
    Totally unacceptable conduct!
    Last edited by GLOCK21GB; 10-07-2011 at 05:32 PM.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

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