At last! Enlightened self interest. And I say that as a positive.
And to repeat, it's not the goal I disagree with, just the method of reaching it.
stay safe.
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VCDL - Operation Campus Safety
- Thread starter Grapeshot
- Start date
At last! Enlightened self interest. And I say that as a positive.
And to repeat, it's not the goal I disagree with, just the method of reaching it.
stay safe.
2a4all
Regular Member
Skid is right. We don't need to make any more arguments for allowing campus carry. They've already been made, and we're the only ones that agree with them (because we're the choir).
We need a proponent, someone who can counter the anti's "I was there, and a gun wouldn't have helped" stance with an equally compelling "Had it not been for my gun, I might be dead now" statement. We have that in the recent GMU student-involved incident.
The news article about the GMU student's self defense act didn't make any reference to his GMU status. He was just another LAC who acted out of necessity to defend himself. That he is a GMU student who was perhaps only feet from that GFZ that is his campus is significant because people like him are assumed to be defenseless prey by the local thug element because of the school policy.
Staging protests now, in the shadows of the Wall St protests, would just be seen as another group of anarchists who don't want to play by society's rules.
We need a proponent, someone who can counter the anti's "I was there, and a gun wouldn't have helped" stance with an equally compelling "Had it not been for my gun, I might be dead now" statement. We have that in the recent GMU student-involved incident.
The news article about the GMU student's self defense act didn't make any reference to his GMU status. He was just another LAC who acted out of necessity to defend himself. That he is a GMU student who was perhaps only feet from that GFZ that is his campus is significant because people like him are assumed to be defenseless prey by the local thug element because of the school policy.
Staging protests now, in the shadows of the Wall St protests, would just be seen as another group of anarchists who don't want to play by society's rules.
I admit I had not considered this when I suggested a different approach. It might have some merit, but it all depends on how the campaign were to be carried out. Crowds with signs chanting slogans might not get favorable attention. There are other ways to get attention, as all good community organizers know.
stay safe.
wylde007
Regular Member
I am not making an argument. I am explaining why I am right.
wylde007
Regular Member
hermannr
Regular Member
2 of every three in the above list are 21 or over. Personally I was 39 when I received my Masters degree, and the group of students I was in class with were ALL over 21, even those that had just received their BA/BS degree.
I also am of the opinion that any college student that wishes to take responsibility for their own safety should be allowed to carry, irregardless of their age. Just because my daughter was under 21 when she received her nursing degree should not mean she should not be allowed to protect herself if she wished to. (BTW: someone did attempt to rape her, but fortunately she is a big gal and fought the guy off. This is not always possible if you are a small woman)
Repeater
Regular Member
Let's call this
[size=+2]Occupy Virginia Universities![/size]
The rebels who oppose dangerous gun-ban policies and regulations are heroes, not anarchists.
speed41ae
Regular Member
They know exactly what they are doing and they see their actions as logical. They have been taught to feel that guns are bad and are trying to teach it to the students.
This has been a long time coming.
This is the reason I go to lobby day. I never gave a damn about restaurants, there are plenty of McD's around. It was always, only, this.
Count me way, way in.
Clint Perdue
VT, '92 and '06
Very nearly expelled from same for a wardrobe malfunction in '04.
This is the reason I go to lobby day. I never gave a damn about restaurants, there are plenty of McD's around. It was always, only, this.
Count me way, way in.
Clint Perdue
VT, '92 and '06
Very nearly expelled from same for a wardrobe malfunction in '04.
SCCC won't get this done
with respect, this is our fight. SCCC has no chance because of many things:
- the administrations know how to wait out students, even grad students eventually die or graduate. Nearly everyone who remembers the VT massacre is gone from campus.
- the students don't really have that much time, college is very time consuming
- the students lack money and other resources for litigation and lobbyists
- VCDL has experience with doing this kind of thing for real, not just stirring up social media (yawn).
- and the biggest, the sword of Damocles over every student, is the fear that somehow the administration will find an excuse to get rid of them
Well, they can't touch me now. I'm out, free, and pissed.
If SCCC could have accomplished anything it would have happened two or three years ago. God bless 'em, but it is time for a pro to lead.
Clint Perdue
VT '92 and '06,
nearly expelled in '04 for being armed on campus
with respect, this is our fight. SCCC has no chance because of many things:
- the administrations know how to wait out students, even grad students eventually die or graduate. Nearly everyone who remembers the VT massacre is gone from campus.
- the students don't really have that much time, college is very time consuming
- the students lack money and other resources for litigation and lobbyists
- VCDL has experience with doing this kind of thing for real, not just stirring up social media (yawn).
- and the biggest, the sword of Damocles over every student, is the fear that somehow the administration will find an excuse to get rid of them
Well, they can't touch me now. I'm out, free, and pissed.
If SCCC could have accomplished anything it would have happened two or three years ago. God bless 'em, but it is time for a pro to lead.
Clint Perdue
VT '92 and '06,
nearly expelled in '04 for being armed on campus
Matthew La Porte did.
Mr. La Porte did. He wanted to serve his country and he got an earlier start than he had expected. He charged the gunfire and he was unarmed.
Mr. La Porte did. He wanted to serve his country and he got an earlier start than he had expected. He charged the gunfire and he was unarmed.
VCDL has invited SCCC to join in and they have shown a positive interest. Working on that now.
We are looking for alumni and parents of students to stand up and make themselves heard. Their presence at the rally and letters to the university administration is much more relevant than mine. We need numbers and an avalanche of correspondence referring to No Guns?? No Funds!
We are looking for alumni and parents of students to stand up and make themselves heard. Their presence at the rally and letters to the university administration is much more relevant than mine. We need numbers and an avalanche of correspondence referring to No Guns?? No Funds!
With respect, there is a difference between that which is self-serving and that which is logical. And yes, they do know what they are doing, including knowing that more of the same failure will not work.
Gun control is not about guns, but all about control.
stay safe.
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Then let's be honest about this and admit that the primary purpose is for those who are not student, faculty or staff, and that what happens to benefit them is a wonderful but subsidiary benefit of the endeavor. To do otherwise is to say that this year's (or last year's) crop of students is (was) concerned about this but succeeding generations of students are/will not be.
You are one of the few, so far, who have self-identified as a victim of the laws, rules, regulations, and policies that effect students and are still in the fight to improve the condition of those who come after you. The number of alumni and parents of students that can be gathered for the cause, as opposed to the numbers that can be gathered as non-affiliated visitors to the campuses, is one of several orders of magnitude.
I would like to help students obtain recognition of their right to effective means of self defense but my main objection to the current situation is how it effects my time on campus.
stay safe.
And he deserves the respect and admiration of all of us. But it must be understood that he did not come from out of nowhere. As much as we would like to believe his actions were completely altruistic and designed solely to protect the other students in the room, the fact is that he was the last one that was shot by Cho, who had already shot everyone else in that classroom. His charge must have had a great influence on stopping the rampage, but he certainly was not some uninvolved bystander coming altruistically to the aid of others in distress.
stay safe.
With all due respect for the goals of the endeavor, this is not going to be a fight that will be won by holding one or two rallies/demonstrations on campus. It is not going to be won by attending meetings of the various Boards of Visitors while wearing GUNS SAVE LIVES buttons. As has been noted above by CPerdue, it will be won in the General Assembly when the over-reaching actions of the Boards of Visitors are reined in. Whether the GA reins in the Boards of Visitors because of umbrage over exceeding the grant of authority given them, or because of a correction to state preemption to include all state agencies/departments/etc., or because the GA desires to secure RKBA for all eligible citizens regardless of arbitrary physical boundaries is not material. But it will be in the GA that the solution is to be found.
VCDL is good at lobbying the GA over the long term. They are not as good at keeping up demonstrations over the long term.
stay safe.
supranite90
Regular Member
Any chance to add Northern Virginia Community Colleges to that list?
Representative schools have been chosen because of their high profile/recognition in this arena. Have no doubt that the domino effect will impact other schools.
I see these rallies and the inherent publicity as being mufti-faceted. They are a call to action (the bugle call and drum beat) to put pressure by withholding funds/endowments and creating an avalanche of correspondence to these universities, to encourage the various college administrators to take the desired action, and to prime the pumps at the GA in concert with these highly motivated efforts. Members of the GA are sensitive to their constituency - especially in large numbers who are willing to let their voices be heard clearly and articulately. These GA members are also aware of where their campaign funds originate and that is not from displeased voters.
Operation Campus Safety has been heavily discussed in advance. The obvious goal is to cause university/college administrators to "get the message" and change direction. The ultimate benefit being to see a change in the Code of Virginia which would allow/restore to all good people the right/choice to defend themselves, whoever and wherever they are - pointedly here at our universities and colleges.
We need to all be part of the solution - get on board - let your voice be heard all the way to the top of the ivory towers.........the General Assembly will be listening - I guarantee it!
Repeater
Regular Member
Sad to say, too many of these elites are cretins, delusional in their thinking that "bans" can accomplish anything.
A case example is discussed by David Codrea concerning the new book, Last Day on Earth by Dave Vann (yes, that this idiot professor has the exact same name as Dave Vann, VCDL, is unfortunate).
Inside Higher Ed interviews the Professor. Selected quotes:
I suppose I could say something pithy like "Go back where you came from!" but that would be intolerant.
I'm not sure why this point is important.
This sort of strikes me like arguing over who benefited most from fighting the restaurant ban. I very rarely drink so should I have cared? Did enforced OC actually work to freedom's benefit (I actually made a 'convert' because of it)?
I think the fewer freedom-restricted zones the better, and that is enough to make this in everyone's interest. Couple that with the relative strength of VCDL and SCCC at getting law made and this is clearly an effort to pursue. The chance to influence young, impressionable, collegiate-aged minds makes this a slam dunk.
Talking to the BOVs is probably pointless but necessary. VT did get rid of the police chief who was central to my troubles soon after, so maybe I'm too pessimistic.
C.
This sort of strikes me like arguing over who benefited most from fighting the restaurant ban. I very rarely drink so should I have cared? Did enforced OC actually work to freedom's benefit (I actually made a 'convert' because of it)?
I think the fewer freedom-restricted zones the better, and that is enough to make this in everyone's interest. Couple that with the relative strength of VCDL and SCCC at getting law made and this is clearly an effort to pursue. The chance to influence young, impressionable, collegiate-aged minds makes this a slam dunk.
Talking to the BOVs is probably pointless but necessary. VT did get rid of the police chief who was central to my troubles soon after, so maybe I'm too pessimistic.
C.