VCDL - Operation Campus Safety

peter nap · Oct 12, 2011

Interesting thread.....NOT

As the inventor of the phrase P4P and one who was extremely glad to see a certain egghead go to Colorado who was/is in favor of P4P, I have to step in here and take Philip's side.

This campaign is a start. If this was the whole story, I'd be against it but it isn't from what I understand.

I have no objection if the current law is changed to allow Staff and Students with CHP's to carry. I never have. My objection was that the proposals would also pertain to everyone on campus. In other words, anyone carrying on campus would need a CHP. That is NOT an option in my book.

VCDL and SCCC have to propose a starting point that has a chance of being accepted. They also need to make some noise which either the campaign will do, or it's a lost cause and we need to go on to other projects.
The students and staff have to show some support other than lip service and catchy slogans and alienating the general public (me).

From what I know about the discussed legislation concerning Campus Carry this year, I'm for it. It isn't perfect but is the best considered so far, and won't have any adverse effect on NON students or staff.

I'm completely supportive of Philip in this (At least for now) and think it's high time the Students and Staff start raising some real Hell instead of pussyfooting around the issue.

ed · Oct 12, 2011

paramedic70002 said:
it would be fish in a barrel.

Baked on Grease · Oct 12, 2011

ed said:

Nice, I shall have to forward that around...

Sent using tapatalk

VApatriot · Oct 13, 2011

I will support any move in the right direction.

I was going to right a long response, but I will try to keep this as pointed as possible.

1. As a current undergrad at Virginia Tech and a CHP holder, I will absolutely support any action that we can pass will allow me and many others to carry on ANY state-run campus without fear of repercussions.

2. I will go to Richmond and fight to force ALL of Virginia's state agencies to recognize the standards for carry set by the general assembly for the rest of this Commonwealth. Currently this would include forcing colleges to allow CC by those 21 and over with permits AND OC by everyone 18 and over.

3. I will go to Richmond and fight to have the CC age dropped to 18, opening another carry option for an age group that can already carry guns anyway.

4. I will go to Richmond and fight to get rid of the need for CHPs all together; because if you don't need a piece of paper to carry a gun in the first place, why should you need one to put a jacket over said gun?

I understand that this isn't true of everyone with a CHP, but I, for one, will not stop fighing gun-control just because it doesn't affect me anymore. As someone who started carrying at 18, I've been on the other side of things, and I want equality, consistency, and most importantly sensibility in gun laws, so that others do not have to feel second-class, like I did when I was under 21. Additionally, although I would be very happy to see anything that would make carry easier for me and others right now, I will continue to fight for fully open campusses because of people like my soon-to-be-18yo brother, who deserves to defend himself just as much as I do.

Grapeshot · Oct 13, 2011

VApatriot said:
I was going to right a long response, but I will try to keep this as pointed as possible.

1. As a current undergrad at Virginia Tech and a CHP holder, I will absolutely support any action that we can pass will allow me and many others to carry on ANY state-run campus without fear of repercussions.

2. I will go to Richmond and fight to force ALL of Virginia's state agencies to recognize the standards for carry set by the general assembly for the rest of this Commonwealth. Currently this would include forcing colleges to allow CC by those 21 and over with permits AND OC by everyone 18 and over.

3. I will go to Richmond and fight to have the CC age dropped to 18, opening another carry option for an age group that can already carry guns anyway.

4. I will go to Richmond and fight to get rid of the need for CHPs all together; because if you don't need a piece of paper to carry a gun in the first place, why should you need one to put a jacket over said gun?

I understand that this isn't true of everyone with a CHP, but I, for one, will not stop fighing gun-control just because it doesn't affect me anymore. As someone who started carrying at 18, I've been on the other side of things, and I want equality, consistency, and most importantly sensibility in gun laws, so that others do not have to feel second-class, like I did when I was under 21. Additionally, although I would be very happy to see anything that would make carry easier for me and others right now, I will continue to fight for fully open campusses because of people like my soon-to-be-18yo brother, who deserves to defend himself just as much as I do.

That has never been more true. Please talk to friends, family and organizations on campus - help to spread the word.

Repeater · Oct 13, 2011

Repeater said:
Sad to say, too many of these elites are cretins, delusional in their thinking that "bans" can accomplish anything.

A case example is discussed by David Codrea concerning the new book, Last Day on Earth by Dave Vann (yes, that this idiot professor has the exact same name as Dave Vann, VCDL, is unfortunate).

I suppose I could say something pithy like "Go back where you came from!" but that would be intolerant.

As a follow-up, David Codrea writes a new Examiner column on the REAL Dave Vann:

The Bloody Professor’ spawns sequels—in more ways than one

On Tuesday, Gun Rights Examiner introduced readers to David Vann, associate professor of creative writing at the University of San Francisco, who promotes the thesis that the ways to limit school shootings are to ban handguns, require mental health background checks, “flag” veterans like prisoners, and impose secure borders and metal detectors on campuses.

...

“Would the real expert please stand up…” an email from Jeff Knox of The Firearms Coalition began, addressed to me and…Dave Vann!

“I think it would be interesting to compare your credentials to his and your solutions as well,” Knox wrote.

Thing is, the Dave Vann whom Knox copied on the email is not the writing teacher, but one we’ll call the real Dave Vann, “a former law enforcement officer, RKBA supporter, Co-Founder of Gunleaders.com & USRKBA.org who believes in the absolute right of individuals, including military personnel, to defend themselves.”

wylde007 · Oct 14, 2011

VApatriot said:
but I, for one, will not stop fighting gun-control just because it doesn't affect me anymore.

That statement right there qualifies your screen name. It is easy to fight for your own rights... when you're fighting for those of your countrymen (Virginians) then you are a TRUE PATRIOT.

Rights are absolute. You either have them or you do not.

Huzzah.

peter nap · Oct 14, 2011

wylde007 said:
That statement right there qualifies your screen name. It is easy to fight for your own rights... when you're fighting for those of your countrymen (Virginians) then you are a TRUE PATRIOT.

Rights are absolute. You either have them or you do not.

Huzzah.

Not to take anything away from you or VaPatriot because I think you both have the walk and the talk....

But RIGHTS are inalienable. They exist and can't be taken. You can choose to not exercise them, but that doesn't mean they are gone.

When the Samurai were told they could no longer carry their swords, they had staff swords made and thumbed their nose at the Administration.

When Americans were told they could not carry guns in towns, they bought Palm Pistols and Derringers and thumbed their noses at the Administration.

Students and Staff carry everyday in colleges that have forbidden them. Some of them don't even have CHP's

...It's always been that way and will always be with some people.

So the RIGHT exists, they are just told that it's illegal to exercise it.

Perhaps it would be better to fight to keep from being persecuted for exercising our rights...than to fight to get rights we already have.

Even in 2011, we still have thumbs and noses!:uhoh:

wylde007 · Oct 14, 2011

peter nap said:
RIGHTS are inalienable.

They are inalienable. They are absolute.

I don't think there's an argument here in anything other than semantics.

I was commending him for not only exercising his rights - but in fighting for liberty for others, a fight in which he has no dog, so to speak.

We fight from whatever ground we can maintain a footing so that we may press forward rather than being pushed from ledge and vanquished by our foes.

ryan7068 · Oct 15, 2011

OMG!!! another robbery just off ODU campus??? no way

I myself being a senior at ODU cannot believe how ignorant some of the population are regarding the carry of firearms. Heres the link to the news coverage: http://www.fox43tv.com/dpps/news/crime/three-suspects-rob-man-near-odu_3964486

I can't go one week it seems without someone telling me......not asking mind you,,but telling me that its illeagal to openly carry a firearm without a permit. WTF?

Its sad.....at the end when the cops are asked if they think the beefed up security at ODU has made it safer....they have to think about it then hesitatingly say yes. Even they don't believe it. I can't wait to get out of that death trap. I am looking forward to the protesting and anything else I can back to help the good folks in charge over there get their heads out of their rears.

ocholsteroc · Oct 15, 2011

VApatriot said:
I was going to right a long response, but I will try to keep this as pointed as possible.

1. As a current undergrad at Virginia Tech and a CHP holder, I will absolutely support any action that we can pass will allow me and many others to carry on ANY state-run campus without fear of repercussions.

2. I will go to Richmond and fight to force ALL of Virginia's state agencies to recognize the standards for carry set by the general assembly for the rest of this Commonwealth. Currently this would include forcing colleges to allow CC by those 21 and over with permits AND OC by everyone 18 and over.

3. I will go to Richmond and fight to have the CC age dropped to 18, opening another carry option for an age group that can already carry guns anyway.

4. I will go to Richmond and fight to get rid of the need for CHPs all together; because if you don't need a piece of paper to carry a gun in the first place, why should you need one to put a jacket over said gun?

I understand that this isn't true of everyone with a CHP, but I, for one, will not stop fighing gun-control just because it doesn't affect me anymore. As someone who started carrying at 18, I've been on the other side of things, and I want equality, consistency, and most importantly sensibility in gun laws, so that others do not have to feel second-class, like I did when I was under 21. Additionally, although I would be very happy to see anything that would make carry easier for me and others right now, I will continue to fight for fully open campusses because of people like my soon-to-be-18yo brother, who deserves to defend himself just as much as I do.

Well written.

I like 4. I will go to Richmond and fight to get rid of the need for CHPs all together; because if you don't need a piece of paper to carry a gun in the first place, why should you need one to put a jacket over said gun?

If the agrument is, "we are trying to stop criminals from carrying" well they already do, and what about DL's? people drive without DL's and suspended DL's.

ocholsteroc · Oct 15, 2011

ryan7068 said:
I myself being a senior at ODU cannot believe how ignorant some of the population are regarding the carry of firearms. Heres the link to the news coverage: http://www.fox43tv.com/dpps/news/crime/three-suspects-rob-man-near-odu_3964486

I can't go one week it seems without someone telling me......not asking mind you,,but telling me that its illeagal to openly carry a firearm without a permit. WTF?

Its sad.....at the end when the cops are asked if they think the beefed up security at ODU has made it safer....they have to think about it then hesitatingly say yes. Even they don't believe it. I can't wait to get out of that death trap. I am looking forward to the protesting and anything else I can back to help the good folks in charge over there get their heads out of their rears.

The crime statistics are alarming. According to Crimemapping.com, from May 1 until October 14 there have been 297 violent crimes within a one mile radius of the campus, 70 crimes within a half mile of the campus.[/SIZE]

Uh 365 days in a year, and 5 months and a half which is about 155~165 days.. so hmmm you do the math! 2 crimes a day.

I can't wait to get out of that death trap.

You said it, and quite a few people I know want to go there.....

VApatriot · Oct 16, 2011

Who is VCDL working with at Virginia Tech?

Can anyone tell me what group or groups VCDL is in contact with at Virginia Tech? I want to do what ever I can to help out with this, but I have no idea what kind, if any, organization is already in place here. As far as I know, the SCCC chapter is not currently active at VT, and, although there is a "VCDL Supporters at Virginia Tech" group on facebook, it too seems pretty inactive and is not an official student org anyway.

If no one here knows, I will contact PVC directly, but I would rather not clutter his in-box.

Grapeshot · Oct 16, 2011

VApatriot said:
Can anyone tell me what group or groups VCDL is in contact with at Virginia Tech? I want to do what ever I can to help out with this, but I have no idea what kind, if any, organization is already in place here. As far as I know, the SCCC chapter is not currently active at VT, and, although there is a "VCDL Supporters at Virginia Tech" group on facebook, it too seems pretty inactive and is not an official student org anyway.

If no one here knows, I will contact PVC directly, but I would rather not clutter his in-box.

VCDL/PVC is coordinating with 3 student organizations at Va. Tech. Please feel free to volunteer your services though - many hands make light work.

Thundar · Oct 16, 2011

Now is the time for Constitutional Carry, not more P4P!

VApatriot said:
I was going to right a long response, but I will try to keep this as pointed as possible.

1. As a current undergrad at Virginia Tech and a CHP holder, I will absolutely support any action that we can pass will allow me and many others to carry on ANY state-run campus without fear of repercussions.

2. I will go to Richmond and fight to force ALL of Virginia's state agencies to recognize the standards for carry set by the general assembly for the rest of this Commonwealth. Currently this would include forcing colleges to allow CC by those 21 and over with permits AND OC by everyone 18 and over.

3. I will go to Richmond and fight to have the CC age dropped to 18, opening another carry option for an age group that can already carry guns anyway.

4. I will go to Richmond and fight to get rid of the need for CHPs all together; because if you don't need a piece of paper to carry a gun in the first place, why should you need one to put a jacket over said gun?

I understand that this isn't true of everyone with a CHP, but I, for one, will not stop fighing gun-control just because it doesn't affect me anymore. As someone who started carrying at 18, I've been on the other side of things, and I want equality, consistency, and most importantly sensibility in gun laws, so that others do not have to feel second-class, like I did when I was under 21. Additionally, although I would be very happy to see anything that would make carry easier for me and others right now, I will continue to fight for fully open campusses because of people like my soon-to-be-18yo brother, who deserves to defend himself just as much as I do.

#4 - Constitutional Carry - is the real winner. It is a pity that VCDL continues to work in small incremental steps, which have not gained any real KABA rights victory in years, only P4P scraps from the table!

Where is VCDL's emphasis? Right where it always is P4P and C2I2. This is a multi year broken record. We have been told that the problem for real rights restoration is a Virginia Senate issue ( Personally I think it is a lack of LT Gov. spine). This November's elections may fix this "problem". THat would put the Gov, Senate and House of Delegates all in the pro gun rights camp. Is VCDL preparing the ground to really take advantage of this opportunity? No, they are preparing to fight hard for more P4P. Yes, I would call this an epic gun rights FAIL.

#1 Virginia issue = constitutional carry. Anything less is capitulation.

ODU = Old Dominion Unconcealed. Anything less is boot licking.

Live free or die,
Thundar

Grapeshot · Oct 16, 2011

Thundar said:
#4 - Constitutional Carry - is the real winner. It is a pity that VCDL continues to work in small incremental steps, which have not gained any real KABA rights victory in years, only P4P scraps from the table!

Where is VCDL's emphasis? Right where it always is P4P and C2I2. This is a multi year broken record. We have been told that the problem for real rights restoration is a Virginia Senate issue ( Personally I think it is a lack of LT Gov. spine). This November's elections may fix this "problem". THat would put the Gov, Senate and House of Delegates all in the pro gun rights camp. Is VCDL preparing the ground to really take advantage of this opportunity? No, they are preparing to fight hard for more P4P. Yes, I would call this an epic gun rights FAIL.

#1 Virginia issue = constitutional carry. Anything less is capitulation.

ODU = Old Dominion Unconcealed. Anything less is boot licking.

Live free or die,
Thundar

You presume that VCDL is pursuing a single method of reaching their goals. We too would like to see Constitutional Carry, but that does NOT mean that all efforts will be directed in that singular direction at the expense of ignoring others.

Surely the election could seriously improve the climate for improvement within the GA., but there are no guarantees - election promises have been ignored. Still there is reason to expect better cooperation if the Senate is taken and the House is retained.

Re: "Anything less is capitulation & anything less is boot licking." You blame the messenger rather than the GA. VCDL has an enviable record throughout its history - you dwell on the failures of the GA, and fault VCDL for them. The glass is not 1/2 empty - it is more than 1/2 full and rising.

Regarding Operation Campus Safety.
Why do you think this is being done before Lobby Day and before the General Assembly convenes next?
Hmmmm - could it be for the publicity and inherent pressure on the GA as well as for the "hurt them in the pocketbook" approach to Va. colleges and universities.

Suggestion to all - take a pro-active and positive attitude. Don't make disparaging remarks from the sidelines.....get involved, be part of the solution. We need a strong, united and dedicated front line working with enthusiasm. In grass roots activism, if you don't take the 1st step you'll never complete the journey.

Hoorah - hit the [strike]beaches[/strike] campuses with VCDL!

VApatriot · Oct 16, 2011

Grapeshot said:
VCDL/PVC is coordinating with 3 student organizations at Va. Tech. Please feel free to volunteer your services though - many hands make light work.

Do you happen to know which groups those are?

Grapeshot · Oct 16, 2011

VApatriot said:
Do you happen to know which groups those are?

Would be best to consult with PVC - that and I am not on my home computer where the info is saved.

Thundar · Oct 16, 2011

Grapeshot said:
You presume that VCDL is pursuing a single method of reaching their goals. We too would like to see Constitutional Carry, but that does NOT mean that all efforts will be directed in that singular direction at the expense of ignoring others.

Surely the election could seriously improve the climate for improvement within the GA., but there are no guarantees - election promises have been ignored. Still there is reason to expect better cooperation if the Senate is taken and the House is retained.

Re: "Anything less is capitulation & anything less is boot licking." You blame the messenger rather than the GA. VCDL has an enviable record throughout its history - you dwell on the failures of the GA, and fault VCDL for them. The glass is not 1/2 empty - it is more than 1/2 full and rising.

Regarding Operation Campus Safety.
Why do you think this is being done before Lobby Day and before the General Assembly convenes next?
Hmmmm - could it be for the publicity and inherent pressure on the GA as well as for the "hurt them in the pocketbook" approach to Va. colleges and universities.

Suggestion to all - take a pro-active and positive attitude. Don't make disparaging remarks from the sidelines.....get involved, be part of the solution. We need a strong, united and dedicated front line working with enthusiasm. In grass roots activism, if you don't take the 1st step you'll never complete the journey.

Hoorah - hit the [strike]beaches[/strike] campuses with VCDL!

OK Positive Attitude - I am positive that VCDL is again seeking a P4P aganda that does not support the restoration of gun rights. Like I said they are a broken record. We have waited and waited. The time is now. If VCDL is stuck in the P4P rut then we must work with rights groups that will fight for our rights.

I have been very proactive and positive. The Libertarian Party is really pushing hard for gun rights (and all of our rights). Don't know what sidelines you are talking about Grape, but I do know the difference between grass roots activism and astroturf. Your post was alot closer to the latter.

Live Free or Die,
Thundar

papa bear · Oct 17, 2011

Thundar said:
#4 - Constitutional Carry - is the real winner. It is a pity that VCDL continues to work in small incremental steps, which have not gained any real KABA rights victory in years, only P4P scraps from the table!

Where is VCDL's emphasis? Right where it always is P4P and C2I2. This is a multi year broken record. We have been told that the problem for real rights restoration is a Virginia Senate issue ( Personally I think it is a lack of LT Gov. spine). This November's elections may fix this "problem". THat would put the Gov, Senate and House of Delegates all in the pro gun rights camp. Is VCDL preparing the ground to really take advantage of this opportunity? No, they are preparing to fight hard for more P4P. Yes, I would call this an epic gun rights FAIL.

#1 Virginia issue = constitutional carry. Anything less is capitulation.

ODU = Old Dominion Unconcealed. Anything less is boot licking.

Live free or die,
Thundar

Good for you THUNDAR, i know that with you and the work you are doing, we should have constitutional carry by the next election.

BTW, do you have a name for your organization? what are some of the things y'all are doing to get this done ? do you have any candidate survey info to hand out? sorry i don't know how you work. do you have any events that you hold, are do you do everything behind closed doors?

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