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Fond du Lac Walmart call cops on MWG, with REPORT

BROKENSPROKET

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Jan 5, 2010
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Trempealeau County
There were at least 3 officers on scene according to the police reports gathered and attached to this thread.

I don't know department protocol, but is it possible more were on scene but did not have to complete reports according to procedure?

As per the report, only 2 officers approached him in the store with weapons brandished at low ready, not TEN -10 - DIES like he claimed in his original post.

Two officers were enough to make this a very interesting event. Why would any stable and balanced person lie and exagerate beyond beleiveable raises the question whether this person should even carry a gun.
 

Brass Magnet

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Right Behind You!, Wisconsin, USA
^^^
I think you are reading a bit much into this...........

Look, the incident happened, whether or not certain details were "embellished". A little constructive criticism can certainly help but you're a ways off from that. The other thread didn't even have the same OP.
 

Interceptor_Knight

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Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
As per the report, only 2 officers approached him in the store with weapons brandished at low ready, not TEN -10 - DIES like he claimed in his original post.

Two officers were enough to make this a very interesting event. Why would any stable and balanced person lie and exagerate beyond beleiveable raises the question whether this person should even carry a gun.

The report did not confirm nor deny that there were 10 total officers on scene. It merely mentioned a number of officers by name who were in the store. More may have responded in the parking lot... The report supports the facts that an AR15 and 870 were deployed in response to a man with gun with no report of disorderly behavior mentioned. Excessive force clearly was used in this case.
 

BROKENSPROKET

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Well I used to open carry, but tonight at the friendly neighborhood Walmart, was ask to leave. I've open carried there plenty of times before with out incident. When told I could not possess a firearm wile shopping at Walmart, I put my gun in my truck and finished shopping. 20 minutes later at least 10 police officers armed with 870's, m16's, and handguns drawn approached my fiancee, son and I. Searched me and escorted me out of the store. The cops were cool about it, but apparently Walmart employees call the cops and told them an armed customer refused to leave. After talk with the store employees and me, I was free to leave. The officers acted professionally and polite, but the Walmart employees actions was uncalled for. I was asked to leave, I apologized and left politely. The employee who asked me to leave told me there where no firearms signs posted (the cops or I didn't find any). I've written the local store and corporate asking what the firearm policy is. I don't recommend OC at the Fond du Lac Walmart

Officer Jed Martin was the first to respond. As soon as the 2nd officer, Officer Kristen Kachelmeier responded, they both entered together. Officer Martin was brandishing a rifle and Officer Kachelmeier was brandishing her duty pistol. They approached the subject and escorted him out. Officer Brian Bednarek entered the store brandishing a shotgun as the other 2 officers were escorting the subject out of the store.

If there were more officers, then Fond du lac PD is in violation of Open Records Laws. I don't think that is the case. One officer with a rifle, and one with a hand gun and later one with a shotgun is 3 armed officers, not 10. The police reports back up every part of his story escept the number of officers responding. Every officer that responded and was armed would be required to fill out a report and would have been included in the ORR. There are only 3, not atleast 10 like he states the day after the incident.

There is something wrong with a person that would say that there were atleast 10 when there were only 3.

And I don't get it why he lied. Three officers more than enough to make this a huge deal. I knew 10 officers responding was a lie.
 

LaBomba

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Tosa
If that happened to me, I would demand a face to face meeting with the District Manager. The store manager broke corp. policy, thus having officers enter the store with firearms at the low ready. Not good.

Giving consent to search? :banghead::banghead::banghead:

That being said, I called out the original post on this a MAJOR BS. I was correct. Two officers, one with a rifle and another with a handgun, as in the report. NOT the TEN(10) officers with assault rifles, shotguns and handguns drawn as claimed in the original post. F.B.S.

Does the the default position HAVE to be that the LEO paperwork trumps the word of a fellow forum member? There are at least 4 possible explanations for the disparity, only one of which justifies an accusation of lying:

-- Not all responding officers have to file a report (Trip 20's suggested possibility)
-- 10 LEOs responded, but were so embarrassed by the circumstance that they "adjusted" the record
-- Some of the responding cops were from another jurisdiction, such as deputy Sheriffs, or were rent-a-cops
-- The victim of the store/LEO overreaction lied about the number of responding officers.

Personally, I don't care how many LEOs the report says responded: The situation was badly handled and the OP deserves the support of his friends in arms.
 

Interceptor_Knight

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Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
....There is something wrong with a person that would say that there were atleast 10 when there were only 3.

And I don't get it why he lied. Three officers more than enough to make this a huge deal. I knew 10 officers responding was a lie.

He didn't say that 10 officers were in the store. I have seen 4 cars pull up to a traffic stop and I am certain that all 4 did not file a report.. 5 cars easily could have been in the parking lot with 2 cops in each or whatever combination of cars and cops with no report accounting for all of them...
 

Trip20

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2006
Messages
526
Location
Wausau Area
He didn't say that 10 officers were in the store...

The OP did say, "at least 10 police officers armed with 870's, m16's, and handguns drawn approached my fiancee, son and I. Searched me and escorted me out of the store."

It's logical to deduce from this that at least 10 officers, one husband, one wife, and one son were in the store prior to the search and escort "out of the store" taking place.

Nonetheless, I seriously doubt every officer on scene is required to fill out a report. I've seen many officers at a scene milling about and chatting it up while 1 or 2 officers conduct the actual investigation. Some officers respond due to the nature of the call but then end up not taking an active roll in the investigation. Others sometimes respond out of boredom. Either way, it's ridiculous to insinuate that someone should lose their ability to carry a firearm for telling a fish story.
 

HandyHamlet

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Nov 17, 2010
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Terra, Sol
Personally, I don't care how many LEOs the report says responded: The situation was badly handled and the OP deserves the support of his friends in arms.

I guess my only question is how do you help a brother out who won't even help himself. The OP of the original thread made no effort to garner support. Did he join WCInc or even call them? Has he lawyered up? We have no Idea.

All we have is an "I TOLD you so" thread posted by someone else that just raises more questions...

So really, what's the point here?


[video=youtube;2JfMCBh1sJQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JfMCBh1sJQ[/video]
 
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musky1011

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Feb 24, 2010
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, ,
I am not defending anyone

just the facts

the police officers are just doing a job...They are just going by department rules..Take up your complaints with the courts..

We in this country are in a current Police state and have been since 1932

The constitutiuon was voided in 1863

we really have no rights...Just priviledges granted by the Federal Reserve
 

KBCraig

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Granite State of Mind
I will give the reporting officer one bonus point: He did include in his report, right up front, that he saw no customers running from the store, nor any sign of disturbance. He was throwing the Wal-Mart manager under the bus for wasting everyone's time.
 

Interceptor_Knight

Regular Member
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
2,851
Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
I am not defending anyone

just the facts

the police officers are just doing a job...They are just going by department rules..Take up your complaints with the courts..

We in this country are in a current Police state and have been since 1932

The constitutiuon was voided in 1863

we really have no rights...Just priviledges granted by the Federal Reserve

No facts just tinfoil there.... :cool:
.
.
tin-foil-hat.jpg
 

MKEgal

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Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
Holy cow...
And this was done after Act 35 specifically stated that carry, in & of itself, is not DC.
Supposed to not be reason for LEO interference.

One officer says that OP had a leg holster; how is it that the shirt covered that?
(If, indeed, the shirt was even untucked... might be another lie by employees.)
And the employee admits that OP agreed to remove the nasty wasty pistol.

I have issues with many of the actions described, mostly on the part of police & WM employees.
(The only one of the OP's would be 'consenting' to the search of his car, but again, that was apparently coerced... being prisoner in the squad car, presence of many officers, etc.)

I'd get in touch with the area/regional manager (don't know the right title), highlighting where the employee admits to violating company policy (does he even have the authori-tay to tell a customer to leave? probably not),
& highlight where the manager was complicit in this violation of company policy.
Maybe also send a copy to WalMart corporate.

Issue #2 is to deal with the police response.
VERY similar to the Brookfield case (church), the Madison 5 case (Culver's), the West Allis case (planting a tree in his own front yard): the police were told someone was doing something perfectly legal & overreacted.

(In this case, the most they could get from the lies of employees was that someone was trespassing. Woohoo. Big effin' hairy deal, pardon my language. Hardly justification for having various firearms drawn, ready to use.)

In dealing with this part, be sure that the IA person (or Chief) is given a copy of:
66.0409 (6)
Unless other facts and circumstances that indicate a criminal or malicious intent on the part of the person apply, no person may be in violation of, or be charged with a violation of, an ordinance of a political subdivision relating to disorderly conduct or other inappropriate behavior for loading, carrying, or going armed with a firearm, without regard to whether the firearm is loaded or is concealed or openly carried.
The officer who suggested that, despite this being a protected Constitutional right, the exercise thereof gives RAS for them to bother people in this manner needs to be re-educated.


Might also be interested in some of the court case references I've collected in my blog here.
Miller v. U.S.
"The Claim and exercise of a Constitutional Right cannot be converted into a crime."

Wisconsin v. Kiekhefer
"The mere presence of firearms does not create exigent circumstances."

County of Kenosha v. C. & S. Management, Inc.
“Selective prosecution when referring to the decision to prosecute in retaliation for the exercise of a constitutional right gives rise to an actionable right under the constitution."

Wisconsin v. Hoppe
"Police conduct does not need to be egregious or outrageous in order to be coercive. Subtle pressures are considered to be coercive if they exceed the defendant’s ability to resist. Pressures that are not coercive in one set of circumstances may be coercive in another set of circumstances."

St. John v. McColley
"Mr. St. John’s lawful possession of a loaded firearm in a crowded place could not, by itself, create a reasonable suspicion sufficient to justify an investigatory detention."

United States v. Ubiles (3rd Cir. 2000):
The Third Circuit found that an individual’s lawful possession of a firearm in a crowded place did not justify a search or seizure.

United States v. King (10th Cir. 1993)
The Tenth Circuit found that an investigatory detention initiated by an officer after he discovered that the defendant lawfully possessed a loaded firearm lacked sufficient basis because the firearm alone did not create a reasonable suspicion of criminal activity.
 
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