California bans open carry

I thought key California legislation had to clear a voter hurdle, as in a proposition?

Happy about this decision....

I've got to tell all of you; personally speaking, I'm happy about this new law. For complete disclosure, I'm a 27 year police Lieutenant here in California. I had the distinct displeasure in having to deal with three OC situations within my city. Each one called for my officers to conduct a tactical contact under difficult circumstances (remember, these simply come out as;"man with a gun" calls) and deal with OCers who were seemingly enjoying the stir their conduct generated. Now, I can't speak for other states and their social environments which might be conducive to open carry....but, here in California, this isn't the wild west anymore. Here, if you show you have a gun....if you pretend you have a gun.....if you imply or even mention that you have a gun....you are going to get rained on with cops and the confrontation WILL TAKE PLACE! And because that is the enviroment of this state, very few Californians were tolerant of, or gave a rats ass to, the Open Carry movement.

Like every state in this nation, there is good and bad unique to that state. And so it is with California on this issue, and there wasn't much doubt as to the outcome.

buggybear said:

I've got to tell all of you; personally speaking, I'm happy about this new law. For complete disclosure, I'm a 27 year police Lieutenant here in California. I had the distinct displeasure in having to deal with three OC situations within my city. Each one called for my officers to conduct a tactical contact under difficult circumstances (remember, these simply come out as;"man with a gun" calls) and deal with OCers who were seemingly enjoying the stir their conduct generated. Now, I can't speak for other states and their social environments which might be conducive to open carry....but, here in California, this isn't the wild west anymore. Here, if you show you have a gun....if you pretend you have a gun.....if you imply or even mention that you have a gun....you are going to get rained on with cops and the confrontation WILL TAKE PLACE! And because that is the enviroment of this state, very few Californians were tolerant of, or gave a rats ass to, the Open Carry movement.

Like every state in this nation, there is good and bad unique to that state. And so it is with California on this issue, and there wasn't much doubt as to the outcome.

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Where do you stand on permits?

buggybear said:

I've got to tell all of you; personally speaking, I'm happy about this new law. For complete disclosure, I'm a 27 year police Lieutenant here in California. I had the distinct displeasure in having to deal with three OC situations within my city. Each one called for my officers to conduct a tactical contact under difficult circumstances (remember, these simply come out as;"man with a gun" calls) and deal with OCers who were seemingly enjoying the stir their conduct generated. Now, I can't speak for other states and their social environments which might be conducive to open carry....but, here in California, this isn't the wild west anymore. Here, if you show you have a gun....if you pretend you have a gun.....if you imply or even mention that you have a gun....you are going to get rained on with cops and the confrontation WILL TAKE PLACE! And because that is the enviroment of this state, very few Californians were tolerant of, or gave a rats ass to, the Open Carry movement.

Like every state in this nation, there is good and bad unique to that state. And so it is with California on this issue, and there wasn't much doubt as to the outcome.

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If indeed you are a Police Lieutenant, you should wander over the Colorado river to Arizona and witness first hand how REAL Police and experienced 911 dispatchers handle a MWAG call.

buggybear said:

I've got to tell all of you; personally speaking, I'm happy about this new law. For complete disclosure, I'm a 27 year police Lieutenant here in California. I had the distinct displeasure in having to deal with three OC situations within my city. Each one called for my officers to conduct a tactical contact under difficult circumstances (remember, these simply come out as;"man with a gun" calls) and deal with OCers who were seemingly enjoying the stir their conduct generated. Now, I can't speak for other states and their social environments which might be conducive to open carry....but, here in California, this isn't the wild west anymore. Here, if you show you have a gun....if you pretend you have a gun.....if you imply or even mention that you have a gun....you are going to get rained on with cops and the confrontation WILL TAKE PLACE! And because that is the enviroment of this state, very few Californians were tolerant of, or gave a rats ass to, the Open Carry movement.

Like every state in this nation, there is good and bad unique to that state. And so it is with California on this issue, and there wasn't much doubt as to the outcome.

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It makes me feel warm a fuzzy all over that you don't believe in the USA. That you agree with the POLICE state, you are part of the problem. Are you going to be there anytime an unarmed citizen is being robbed, mugged, beaten, or shot? I guess it was your day off when the gunman shot up the quary. It is people like you that are responsable for the erosion of our freedoms. Instead of responding with SWAT for MWAG call why not respond and observe...or ask what is going on instead of over reacting.

Your a piece of work and paranoid. I attended the acadamy in Idaho, it is just not taught to have a automatic..."THEY ARE GUILTY OF SOMETHING" response.

Please explain how anyone intentionally went out to cause any confrontation? Were not the police the ones who initiated the stops? Were not the police the ones ignorant (or lying) of the laws?

Sent from my M865 using Tapatalk

WCrawford said:

Please explain how anyone intentionally went out to cause any confrontation? Were not the police the ones who initiated the stops? Were not the police the ones ignorant (or lying) of the laws?

Sent from my M865 using Tapatalk

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Sorry, this is directed at UnrealTard.

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I do believe he is a TROLL....

I strongly support concealed weapon permits and am disappointed in the difficulties in acquiring them. Concealed weapon wearing civilians would ACTUALLY be effective in response, should they choose, to a critical violent event....Unlike OCers, who would simply be targeted first or have their unloaded weapon taken from them. That's why OCers "exercise their rights" at a Palo Alto coffee house and not an Oakland or Compton Popeyes...

Why would I review, or give a crap, about MWG calls in Arizona??? Did you not read my post about different environments. I only know California; I'm only responsible for LE supervision in California.

And Doc, I was on duty on 10/6 and an active participant in the manhunt. I know in your little gun-world, you imagine a different outcome if every one in that meeting was strapped...and maybe that particular meeting might not have gone down the way it did....But if you are trying to make me believe that society would be safer if everyone had a gun on their hip, in this day and age of nuetral morality, lack of discipline and no accountability for actions.....I'm going to disagree with you with every fiber of my being.....And unless you've done what I've done and seen what I've seen over these last nearly 3 decades, your opinion is not going to carry to much weight with me.....respectfully.

And over the last 3 years, I've gotten on your forum about 6 times. Each time, when an opinion differing from the site norm is given, the "Troll" title is tossed out. What the hell do you people call this a forum for??? I'm trying to give some insight into a perspective few of you share. If you don't welcome that, you might as well all sit around rubbing each other and call that a forum too.....

I agree - but . . .

buggybear said:

I've got to tell all of you; personally speaking, I'm happy about this new law. For complete disclosure, I'm a 27 year police Lieutenant here in California. I had the distinct displeasure in having to deal with three OC situations within my city. Each one called for my officers to conduct a tactical contact under difficult circumstances (remember, these simply come out as;"man with a gun" calls) and deal with OCers who were seemingly enjoying the stir their conduct generated. Now, I can't speak for other states and their social environments which might be conducive to open carry....but, here in California, this isn't the wild west anymore. Here, if you show you have a gun....if you pretend you have a gun.....if you imply or even mention that you have a gun....you are going to get rained on with cops and the confrontation WILL TAKE PLACE! And because that is the enviroment of this state, very few Californians were tolerant of, or gave a rats ass to, the Open Carry movement.

Like every state in this nation, there is good and bad unique to that state. And so it is with California on this issue, and there wasn't much doubt as to the outcome.

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"I am NOT happy with this new law. I fully understand the police position, but there should be a way to legally protect one's self while outside the home. I am not some kind of a nut or a loose cannon. I am well trained in the safe use of firearms and the responsibilities that accompany such. Now, I think that it is very important that concealed carry laws should be revisited. I strongly believe that the concealed carry law be changed from "may issue" to "shall issue". This would allow trained citizens to protect themselves and is in line with 2nd amendment rights."

buggybear said:

Why would I review, or give a crap, about MWG calls in Arizona??? Did you not read my post about different environments. I only know California; I'm only responsible for LE supervision in California......

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And your attitude is what many here have come to expect from California LEO.

You only know how California responds to MWAG call and that's good enough for you. Has it ever occurred to you, your department is handling it wrong?

You ARE in a position, you know, to suggest changes in your department, but it's so much easier to just TROLL into this forum to put blame on OC.

Isn't it?

JRF: You and I are very close in opinion, no doubt. Thanks for posting.

GW: I'm not going to keep trading with you. Your opinions appear to be much more emotional based than knowledge based. And, you're disrespectful. Speaking of respect, I'm not going to disrespect my fine brothers and sisters in Arizona law enforcement. That said, I would imagine they would disproportionately agree with these two positions: 1) California law enforcement officers, ON THE WHOLE, are better trained and are tactically sound with the latest in dynamic response to critical events. There is, of course, no shortage in tactically skilled officers in AZ. 2) THE SOCIETAL ATMOSPHERE REGARDING GUNS, THE USE OF GUNS, THE WEARING OF GUNS ETC. IS EXTREMELY DIFFERENT IN AZ. COMPARED TO CA. (emphasis to bring clarity....). It is for that reason that reviewing AZ. response for this particular issue carries little to no benefit for CA. tactical officers. It is apples and oranges. Comprende'?
So, has it occurred to me that my department is doing it wrong? No. We've been handling armed subject calls every week since the emergence of gang violence in the late 80's. Our officers have gone home every time (from this type of call) and only the bad guys have taken losses (arrest/injury/death). Though the good tactician is always open to change, I'm thinking we've been doing pretty good...

buggybear said:

1) California law enforcement officers, ON THE WHOLE, are better trained and are tactically sound with the latest in dynamic response to critical events.

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And you know this to be fact how? I'd say that actually it's you in Cali who are less trained. After all, I don't read about police shooting people and being prosecuted and found guilty in AZ like I do California. But hey, you'll just say it's ok to be the bully cop as long as it's California.

buggybear said:

Comprende'?

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I would post what came with it, but no need. Hypocrite is all I really need to say when you start talking like this and as you have in other posts while claiming others are being disrespectful in their responses to you. Take a look in the mirror.

buggybear said:

So, has it occurred to me that my department is doing it wrong? No. We've been handling armed subject calls every week since the emergence of gang violence in the late 80's. Our officers have gone home every time (from this type of call) and only the bad guys have taken losses (arrest/injury/death). Though the good tactician is always open to change, I'm thinking we've been doing pretty good...

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Yes, shoot first ask questions later. Great training and of course means you go home and wait to see if you'll get by with it or be prosecuted. And so you're not a good tactician since you obviously see zero need to look at how you are doing things. You are not open to change at all. Again, read your own posts and see how you are refusing to talk but instead just tell others how perfect you the things you claim to do are.

Classic troll/sock puppet combo platter. Can I get an order of tater-tots "officer"?

Mohawk,

Visited your last 10 posts; you have one theme....confrontation. All from the safety of your basement. I disregard your post and encourage everyone else to do the same.

And Canuck.....Again with the "Troll". Tell you what, JC....I'll message you my work phone number, you can confirm my department and call it....I'll pick up the phone and we can chat.....IF, you will then do the honorable act of removing yourself from this forum for not possessing the courage to accept intelligent and professional people with differing opinions. You interested in that deal? Advise on this thread so all can see.

buggybear said:

JRF: You and I are very close in opinion, no doubt. Thanks for posting.

GW: I'm not going to keep trading with you. Your opinions appear to be much more emotional based than knowledge based. And, you're disrespectful. Speaking of respect, I'm not going to disrespect my fine brothers and sisters in Arizona law enforcement. That said, I would imagine they would disproportionately agree with these two positions: 1) California law enforcement officers, ON THE WHOLE, are better trained and are tactically sound with the latest in dynamic response to critical events. There is, of course, no shortage in tactically skilled officers in AZ. 2) THE SOCIETAL ATMOSPHERE REGARDING GUNS, THE USE OF GUNS, THE WEARING OF GUNS ETC. IS EXTREMELY DIFFERENT IN AZ. COMPARED TO CA. (emphasis to bring clarity....). It is for that reason that reviewing AZ. response for this particular issue carries little to no benefit for CA. tactical officers. It is apples and oranges. Comprende'?
So, has it occurred to me that my department is doing it wrong? No. We've been handling armed subject calls every week since the emergence of gang violence in the late 80's. Our officers have gone home every time (from this type of call) and only the bad guys have taken losses (arrest/injury/death). Though the good tactician is always open to change, I'm thinking we've been doing pretty good...

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I've seen videos of the respect California LEO have for illegals, blacks and other minorities. A video of when the LA riots kicked off, your better trained officers scooted away for safety. The squad Lieutenant in charge was later dismissed.

Perhaps you could inform us how much taxpayer money was paid out to settle civil issues against California LEO?

Respect -- Arizona honors all out of state CCW permits, to include California. Arizona permits OC/CC constitution carry of firearms by anyone of legal age while visiting Arizona, regardless of home state. In short, Arizona trusts all gun owners.

California -- does not honor any out of state permits. In many counties refused to issue CCW permits to local citizens. OC is your state will soon be illegal.

California, trusts no one to carry a gun. Not even their citizens and over reacts with full SWAT gear when a MWAG call is sounded.

buggybear said:

Mohawk,

Visited your last 10 posts; you have one theme....confrontation. All from the safety of your basement. I disregard your post and encourage everyone else to do the same.

And Canuck.....Again with the "Troll". Tell you what, JC....I'll message you my work phone number, you can confirm my department and call it....I'll pick up the phone and we can chat.....IF, you will then do the honorable act of removing yourself from this forum for not possessing the courage to accept intelligent and professional people with differing opinions. You interested in that deal? Advise on this thread so all can see.

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Sure thing chief. Post up your name and phone number on this thread so all can see.

By the way, you were the sock puppet.

buggybear said:

Mohawk,

Visited your last 10 posts; you have one theme....confrontation. All from the safety of your basement. I disregard your post and encourage everyone else to do the same.

And Canuck.....Again with the "Troll". Tell you what, JC....I'll message you my work phone number, you can confirm my department and call it....I'll pick up the phone and we can chat.....IF, you will then do the honorable act of removing yourself from this forum for not possessing the courage to accept intelligent and professional people with differing opinions. You interested in that deal? Advise on this thread so all can see.

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Mr. buggybear,

You must understand that we do get trolls here who start off much like you have with an appeal to authority which then starts devolving into ad hominems and/or other less than civil discourse..

While I know quite a few California law enforcement officers personally, and have the utmost respect for them, there is a good bit of animosity between leo and lac which has been fostered BY the behavior of law enforcement officers/departments. We tend to be a bit ruffled when Cali/firearms discussions are on the table.

Now, can you give me your opinion on the 12031(e) statute? How do officers justify such a search (seizure) in light of the 4th amendment?

Let's continue this discussion civilly and see if we all cannot learn something new..

Thank you,
Rev. Jim

GWbiker said:

it's so much easier to just TROLL into this forum to put blame on OC.

Isn't it?

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A "troll" with over 200 posts? Maybe, if he had 10 or 15.

Give the guy a break. We all have unique insights and perspectives, and just because they may different from ours, that doesn't necessarily make them "wrong".

If everybody on this forum had the same outlook and view on things, there could be no real discussion.

Listening to other people's opinions, comments, and insights can broaden our base of understanding on a given subject if we will be open-minded enough to listen and weigh all sides of a discussion.

Coming next election a governor of California should be vote out of office. For not letting law abiding citizens exercising the 2A right.