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Thread: A Cop's perspective on Firearms and defense

  1. #1
    Regular Member Motofixxer's Avatar
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    A Cop's perspective on Firearms and defense

    I was on another forum I frequent and there was a discussion about firearms and defending yourself. Someone posed a question to hear from LEO. So one kindly replied and here is what he said.




    "You want a cop's perspective? Here it is:

    First, some facts. Your local PD has no legal duty to prevent crime. Others here have articulated this very well, but here's some more inside baseball. The law serves, at least in theory, to limit what the police can and cannot do as they interact with citizens and criminals. When you see a police response to an event, you are really seeing the SOPs of the agency at work. SOPs dictate things such as response time and what the police will do when they get to your crime scene. The SOPs say all kinds of cool things about serving, protecting, and making everyone feel good about the police.

    These SOPs can be seen as the result of a lot of compromising and haggling between the citizens and their government......It's what you as a citizen are willing to put up with, expressed with your vote, and penned by the politicians and brass who hope to be re-elected and reappointed as a result of making you happy.

    That pile of SOPs represents the compromise between your expectations of the police, and what you'll put up with to get those expectations met....Remember, the law does little more than compel the police to investigate....The SOPs and politics are what you see in action. An example: The law permits the cops to chase a car til the cows come home, for nearly anything. However, as citizens, you have decided, via your vote, that chasing speeders until they crash into innocents and kill them is unacceptable....so the SOP prohibits that. As citizens, you have decided, via your vote, that an acceptable response time for a Priority One call (burglary in progress at your home) is perhaps five minutes.

    How did you all come up with five minutes? Because you recognized that your police budget only allows for a certain number of officers per zone, per grid, etc.....a simple resource allocation problem. Additionally, you all agreed that you would like the cops to properly clear intersections before driving through red lights. Moreover, some of your input resulted in SOPs that mandate top speeds regardless of the event.

    These are simply the rules of engagement that we LEOs have to work within if we want be employed by your municipality. Fair enough.

    Now, if you will let me, I can guarantee your safety. At all times. Forever. Here's what I need: A key to your home. A detailed list of where you'll be and when. Much more of your money. I need to install a few devices on your car. I need access to your communications.....I need to be able to protect you from all threats, the only way I can do that is to have you surrender your rights....

    .....not gonna happen, right? And it shouldn't. The more freedom we reserve for ourselves, the more risk we accept. These risks include exposing ourselves to the risks inherent in interacting with others in an unfettered society. You are not, nor should you be, willing to give up the amount of freedom that it would take for the state to guarantee your safety. One of the problems we Americans have with other societies is their willingness to surrender too many freedoms in the name of safety; no big deal.....if you like that type of thing, live there, if not try the USofA on for size.....But we grimace at the idea of exporting that thinking here. Again, you do it your way, we'll do it ours.

    There's folks in the US who really admire the increased role of government in people's lives....who really aspire to a "European" way of doing things. The day that their votes outweigh those of me and mine is the day things will change to their vision of America.....It'll be a sad day, but, the law will be the law, and I'll obey it.

    The practical view of an LEO as it pertains to all this? We, more often than not, are not going to get there in time to save you. Why? Re-read the above paragraphs. How fast do most burglaries, robberies, rapes, etc go down? Far faster than any LEO response time. Face reality.

    That burden you feel on your shoulders.....that weight bearing down on you....the thing to which you say, "I'll let someone else come take care of it".....is going to happen very quickly, without concern for the rules, and with little hope of mercy from the perpetrator. Answer this duty appropriately; prepare to defend yourself and your family. We are on a forum centered on self-help....the requirement for "self help" couldn't be more obvious here."
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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Do you have a link for this?
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  3. #3
    Regular Member Motofixxer's Avatar
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    Sure do it's Here
    Click Here for New to WI Open Carry Legal References and Informational Videos--- FAQ's http://Tinyurl.com/OpenCarry-WI

    The Armed Badger A WI site dedicated to Concealed Carry in WI

    "To disarm the people... was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." -- George Mason, Speech of June 14, 1788

    http://Tinyurl.com/New-To-Guns to DL useful Info

  4. #4
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motofixxer View Post
    Sure do it's Here
    Thank you sir!
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  5. #5
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Wow... honesty.
    Why can't the leaders (the elected people with the fancy trim on their uniforms) be like that?

    As I was reading that, I heard gunfire a bit east & south of here - more toward the inner city.
    5 shots to start with: 1 - 234 - 5
    then maybe another 9: 12 - 34567 - 8 - 9
    That was maybe 5min ago. No sirens yet.
    Maybe it was cops shooting at criminals/thugs/critters/hood rats?

  6. #6
    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    Thanks to the OP. Excellent read... Excellent perspective.

    Saved as a word document for future use.

    Outdoorsman1
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  7. #7
    Regular Member Motofixxer's Avatar
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    This comment was on an unrelated topic but it shows that there are some officers who haven't lost sight of his role. Even goes so far as to call out other officers.

    "All of our actions should be on camera and should be open to full review. I cannot seriously believe that some of you think this is not the case! Where is your integrity?? All Officers are not perfect, none are, and mistakes will be made; but none of our actions should be "hidden" from the public! I hate to call out anyone but this is ridiculous!! Who among us has forgotten we are public servants accountable to the people and responsible for our actions!!

    We are not untouchable or unaccountable and by no means above the scrutiny of the public.

    I mean no disrespect to anyone but I think some of your posts call for this and you need a wake up!"





    Or this officers opinion, where are these guys???

    "From reading the posts below and from other related topics such as filming officers making stops, or interacting with the public in any way, there seems to be some amnesia going on on our part. I seem to remember taking an oath to the effect of "uphold the laws of the state and the nation". Why is it that we are so afraid of being filmed in the performance of our duties? How many videos have we seen on YouTube where officers are threatening citizens with arrest for conducting a lawful activity? Telling people standing on their own property, that they have to go into their homes because the officer "doesn't feel safe with them standing out there"? The bottom line is that we do work for these folks, and they, like it or not do, as is proper have oversight of us. yes, it can be annoying, irritating, and at times "in your face". The latter can be a chargeable offense, but not if we are the ones causing the confrontation with the citizen in the first place. just ignore them. Or better yet, look at them, smile, and wave. Ask them if they got your good side. If they think that you don't care or that you like the attention of the camera, they will leave you alone. Their video can also end up saving you in a law suit. They may think that you did something wrong, and it ends up clearing you because you follwed the law and policies. Your dashcam may not show the suspects gun in their hand behind them, but the citizens video might show that. "
    Last edited by Motofixxer; 10-16-2011 at 03:30 PM.
    Click Here for New to WI Open Carry Legal References and Informational Videos--- FAQ's http://Tinyurl.com/OpenCarry-WI

    The Armed Badger A WI site dedicated to Concealed Carry in WI

    "To disarm the people... was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." -- George Mason, Speech of June 14, 1788

    http://Tinyurl.com/New-To-Guns to DL useful Info

  8. #8
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Motofixxer:

    Thank you for bringing this enlightening article to the forum. I had never quite looked at things in the light that the author of the article presented them.

    I feel better than ever about my decision to legally conceal carry a handgun for self-defense purposes; and will look forward to the day when I can, without fear of reprisal or harassment by law enforcement or judicial entities, open carry in the State of Mississippi.
    Proud Veteran ~ U.S. Army / Army Reserve

    Mississippi State Guard ~ Honorably Retired


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    I've always said, there's citizens arrest for the dire situations, some people may not be equipted, but most are. I'd say in towns, they elect each and every officer every year, any misconduct, out, to be there to protect and serve only, not to harrass. I know this is nothing about the article, but it's my rant, I think citizens can a should protect themselves and police the badguys, we could have half the police we have no if people got active, just MY 2 cents, not yours, mine.
    When seconds count between life and death the police are only minutes away - Philip Van Cleave

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RgLEGibyXs The Right of the People to bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GNu7...eature=related

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    I want to shake this man's hand. A good reminder that there are decent people out there on the other side of the badge. Unfortunately, to be popular on youtube you have to act like a ******* toward a citizen just exercising his/her rights. Since that seems to be all we see that is the only impression we seem to have of law enforcement.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

  11. #11
    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    As I was reading that, I heard gunfire a bit east & south of here - more toward the inner city.
    5 shots to start with: 1 - 234 - 5
    then maybe another 9: 12 - 34567 - 8 - 9
    That was maybe 5min ago. No sirens yet.
    Maybe it was cops shooting at criminals/thugs/critters/hood rats?
    OUCH - MKEgal - you really need to consider moving.
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
    "Permission Slips" from Utah, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida. _ Verily, thou shalt not fiddle with thine firearm whilst in the bathroom stall, lest thine spouse seek condolences from thine friends.

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