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Thread: There's a lesson in this--Seattle Superhero Arrested

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    There's a lesson in this--Seattle Superhero Arrested

    http://heraldnet.com/article/2011101...sed-of-assault

    After pepper spraying a group of people he thought were fighting he's arrested by Police.


    The report goes on to say that although Jones "has been advised to observe and report incidents to 911, he continues to try to resolve things on his own."
    Something that anyone carrying a firearm should be aware of. You may be merely trying to end a fight but could, in the end, be charged with assault by drawing your weapon. Where someone's life is at stake it's a different matter. In a typical alcohol fuelled, "pushing and shouting match" on the street, don't do like this guy or you can end up like he has.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    the question is, did you see the video of this? HILARIOUS

    he get's punched, "ITS OKAY, I'VE GOT ARMOR" This guy was running around in a super hero suit with a GIANT can of pepper spray following a group of people. I think I saw a guy get hit by a car in the video.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

  3. #3
    Regular Member massivedesign's Avatar
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    Link to video?
    www.WaGuns.org

    Currently mapping locations of Shooting Areas as well as Gun Stores - Let me know what is missing!

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    http://vimeo.com/30307440

    I believe this is the incident described in the OP. Let the lulz roll...

    Last edited by Schlitz; 10-11-2011 at 10:32 AM.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

  5. #5
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    well,,,

    such asshatery!!
    crime fighting schmuck..
    he caused more problems than he could stop.
    charge him with 9.41.270.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  6. #6
    Regular Member massivedesign's Avatar
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    Super hero-ism aside... I hear 911 calls from numerous people on the video, claiming of large fights, vehicular hit and run, pepper spray, assault with a weapon.... I am at 19 min in so far.. WHERE ARE THE COPS?
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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Wow, I'm not really sure what to say. I guess the guy got what was coming to him. If you keep interjecting yourself into situations that don't involve you, then you are eventually going to read the situation wrong and "help" the wrong people.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

  8. #8
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    Wow, I'm not really sure what to say. I guess the guy got what was coming to him. If you keep interjecting yourself into situations that don't involve you, then you are eventually going to read the situation wrong and "help" the wrong people.
    Did you notice how the "chick" seemed to have him back on his heels? Some Superhero him.

    Maybe he should have chosen a different superhero costume. If he was "Spiderman" then he could have coated the combatants with silly string
    Last edited by amlevin; 10-11-2011 at 01:34 PM.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Phoenix Jones, your village is looking for you.

    'Nuff said.

  10. #10
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    http://heraldnet.com/article/2011101...sed-of-assault

    After pepper spraying a group of people he thought were fighting he's arrested by Police.

    Something that anyone carrying a firearm should be aware of. You may be merely trying to end a fight but could, in the end, be charged with assault by drawing your weapon. Where someone's life is at stake it's a different matter. In a typical alcohol fuelled, "pushing and shouting match" on the street, don't do like this guy or you can end up like he has.
    I believe hearing about incidents where a citizen intervened to protect someone and it turned bad on them from the aspect the victim now turned on the one rescuing.

    In this case (even though playing superhero) where did he violate the law? except for witnesses twisting what was really going on (which can happen to any of us).

    One can see from the video, there was active fighting and one car clearly appeared to try and run over a pedestrian so he responded with pepper spray, and I am still wondering how this would be excessive?

    RCW 9A.16.020 Use of force — When lawful.

    The use, attempt, or offer to use force upon or toward the person of another is not unlawful in the following cases:

    (3) Whenever used by a party about to be injured, or by another lawfully aiding him or her, in preventing or attempting to prevent an offense against his or her person, or a malicious trespass, or other malicious interference with real or personal property lawfully in his or her possession, in case the force is not more than is necessary;
    Washington Pattern Jury Instructions--Criminal
    2008 Edition Prepared by the Washington Supreme Court Committee On Jury Instructions, Hon. Sharon S. Armstrong, Co-Chair, Hon. William L. Downing, Co-Chair

    Part IV. Defenses
    WPIC CHAPTER 17. Lawful Force—Charges Other Than Homicide

    WPIC 17.02 Lawful Force—Defense of Self, Others, Property

    It is a defense to a charge of __________ that the force [used][attempted][offered to be used] was lawful as defined in this instruction.
    [The [use of][attempt to use][offer to use] force upon or toward the person of another is lawful when [used][attempted][offered] [by a person who reasonably believes that [he][she] is about to be injured] [by someone lawfully aiding a person who [he][she] reasonably believes is about to be injured] in preventing or attempting to prevent an offense against the person, and when the force is not more than is necessary.]
    So when it comes down to it, is SPD/Prosecutor over reacting because of their dislike in what this character is doing (mind you several view those who open carry as characters) as one can hear the Officer saying "Anyone else want to join this party and we are about to arrest the bunch of you and clean things up we are tired of this game" to later telling them they are assaulting people and to go away.
    After viewing the video it is pretty clear the Officer was not interested in getting all sides of the incident but has already made up his mind before arriving.

    http://vimeo.com/30307440

    When coming to someones aid, this very well could have been anyone on this board who would choose to respond. What happen to citizens getting involved and not just look the other way when a crime is being committed?
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Did you notice how the "chick" seemed to have him back on his heels? Some Superhero him.

    Maybe he should have chosen a different superhero costume. If he was "Spiderman" then he could have coated the combatants with silly string
    What's he going to do? He'd broken up the fight already, he's not going to deck the chick.

    I am unsure how to feel about this. "Injecting himself into situations" because the cops never seem to be around doesn't inherently strike me as the wrong thing to do. If more people were willing to do that, would the world be a better place? I don't know.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    All I have to say about this, having watched the video, is "BUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHahaha!" Idiot got what he deserved.

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    Regular Member OrangeIsTrouble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirpuma View Post
    All I have to say about this, having watched the video, is "BUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHahaha!" Idiot got what he deserved.
    For trying to stop a fight?


    Wonder how many people are going to laugh in your face when you finally have to use your sidearm in a bad situation and get sent to prison over some bs charges.

    Amlevin, you're selfish. And silly for believing that article.

    You too; schlitz. I'd definitely laugh if you got punched and hit by a car too.



    So guys, listen to the police and STAY away from conflicts. You will be hurt and will be arrested by the police and the bad guys win. YAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY for spd and yaaaaaayy for you smart oc-ers!!!!!


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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenIsFaster View Post
    For trying to stop a fight?


    Wonder how many people are going to laugh in your face when you finally have to use your sidearm in a bad situation and get sent to prison over some bs charges.

    Amlevin, you're selfish. And silly for believing that article.

    You too; schlitz. I'd definitely laugh if you got punched and hit by a car too.



    So guys, listen to the police and STAY away from conflicts. You will be hurt and will be arrested by the police and the bad guys win. YAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY for spd and yaaaaaayy for you smart oc-ers!!!!!
    Whatever was going on under the viaduct ramp didn't warrant that idiot running down there with a can of pepper spray and attacking a half dozen people. Tell the people to break it up while you call the cops and do your best to stay out of it. If some guy is attacking a woman, sure step in as needed, but if it's just a couple drunk dudes shoving each other, big whoop, that crap happens all the time. There's a point where stepping in is helping out and a point where stepping in is wrong. When the people you're supposedly helping out attack you (like that woman beating on mr super hero) then clearly you've made the wrong decision.

    And as far as me being arrested for using my sidearm, don't worry about me, I know when and how to use it. Been there never arrested.

    From what I saw in the video that the idiots "side kick" recorded the people were having an alcohol fueled argument, not a brawl. When he ran down there, they broke up and tried to get away from him. Then he sprayed his pepper spray and kept chasing them around. Then he attacked the car that people were trying to drive away in. Had he just called the cops and yelled at them to break it up, I'll bet they would all have gone their ways and ended it. He escalated a situation that he shouldn't have. And dressing up like he's some super hero is just stupid.
    Last edited by sirpuma; 10-11-2011 at 04:59 PM.

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    Regular Member Schlepnier's Avatar
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    I suggest the lot of you do some research before you go spouting off. this is a matter of the SPD once again abusing it's authority. or more precisely one specific officer.
    it is yet another shandy cobain type incident.

    the "superhero" in question has met with the SPD chief and has briefed the department on his activities. additionaly he has provided them with identification and contact information to prevent this very thing. in fact they had an agreement not to de-mask him or divulge his true identity. he always has a voice dialer and a second person ready to call 911 with him when he does his superhero thing.

    The officer in question has had 4 previous negative run-ins with Phoenix Jones including but not limited to domestic assault where the officer didn't want to do his job when the parties admited to the assault, illegal drugs which had to be dealth with by a county sherriffs deputy because the officer in question could not be bothered and left the scene, forcing jones to get the second officer.

    They arrested him without cause, they confiscated his suit and his gear without cause or merit. he broke no laws and made certain he did not use excessive force. the officer mentioned above refused to even review the video footage since he has had it out for jones for a while.
    +thought for the day+
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    I believe hearing about incidents where a citizen intervened to protect someone and it turned bad on them from the aspect the victim now turned on the one rescuing.

    In this case (even though playing superhero) where did he violate the law? except for witnesses twisting what was really going on (which can happen to any of us).

    One can see from the video, there was active fighting and one car clearly appeared to try and run over a pedestrian so he responded with pepper spray, and I am still wondering how this would be excessive?





    So when it comes down to it, is SPD/Prosecutor over reacting because of their dislike in what this character is doing (mind you several view those who open carry as characters) as one can hear the Officer saying "Anyone else want to join this party and we are about to arrest the bunch of you and clean things up we are tired of this game" to later telling them they are assaulting people and to go away.
    After viewing the video it is pretty clear the Officer was not interested in getting all sides of the incident but has already made up his mind before arriving.

    http://vimeo.com/30307440

    When coming to someones aid, this very well could have been anyone on this board who would choose to respond. What happen to citizens getting involved and not just look the other way when a crime is being committed?
    Gotta agree with you on this one Dave mostly.

    I have no problem with him playing super hero too, although something I wouldn't do. It came down to one cop who doesn't like what he does. I listened to the interviews on KISW too.
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 10-12-2011 at 09:02 AM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
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  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    my favorite part is the girl running TOWARD him yelling GET AWAY FROM ME!!! O_o

    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlepnier View Post
    I suggest the lot of you do some research before you go spouting off.
    What you mean like this?

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...hoenix11m.html

    ... According to the police report, an officer was dispatched to a report of a hit-and-run on a pedestrian at Western Avenue and Columbia Street at 2:38 a.m. Sunday.

    A woman told the officer she didn't see a vehicle strike anyone but that she and some friends had been attacked and pepper-sprayed by a man, according to the report. A description of the man's attire has been blacked out, though it does refer to him as "the masked suspect."

    The woman told the officer her group had left a nightclub, bound for their cars but stopped in the street "and began dancing and frolicking around with each other" when the man charged at them and doused them with pepper spray, the report says.

    ...

    "The victims denied that anyone in their group had been fighting" and they wanted the masked man "arrested for attacking them," it says.

    ...

    Last year, a Federal Way man was granted a protection order against Jones in King County Superior Court after Jones allegedly called and drove by the man's home repeatedly and threatened him and his family, court records show.

  19. #19
    Regular Member OrangeIsTrouble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirpuma View Post

    Allegedly. So was he charged for anything?


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  20. #20
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlepnier View Post
    I suggest the lot of you do some research before you go spouting off. this is a matter of the SPD once again abusing it's authority. or more precisely one specific officer.
    it is yet another shandy cobain type incident.
    Quote Originally Posted by sirpuma View Post
    No, Like This

    Click image for larger version. 

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    A pedestrian was bending down to pickup some item on the street.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The car speeds up toward the pedestrian
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Either he was struck or was able to avoid the contact, unable to tell but he was in harms way, no disputing that.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  21. #21
    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    No, Like This

    Click image for larger version. 

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    A pedestrian was bending down to pickup some item on the street.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Image2.jpg 
Views:	93 
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ID:	7109
    The car speeds up toward the pedestrian
    Click image for larger version. 

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Views:	94 
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ID:	7110
    Either he was struck or was able to avoid the contact, unable to tell but he was in harms way, no disputing that.
    Wow! I love how the car turned and went down the road the WRONG direction to try and hit this guy.
    Guns don't kill people, bullets do!

  22. #22
    Regular Member Vitaeus's Avatar
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    right or wrong the fellow is involved and cares about keeping crime off the streets. I am not sure I think what he is doing is a good idea or not, but, he is NOT just standing by and letting things happen, the idea of caring about what happens to others is part of the restoration of police to peace officers and not an occupying army asking for our papers.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    No, Like This

    Click image for larger version. 

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    A pedestrian was bending down to pickup some item on the street.
    Ah, yes, this shot, where our masked crusader actually physically HIT the car as it drove by. The guy in white didn't get hit, not sure why he was in the street. Perhaps the person who was trying to get away from the masked assailant couldn't tell which way to go. And whether or not the driver was trying to hit the guy in white is unknown. And it still doesn't negate the fact that if he hadn't run down there and sprayed those people, none of that would have happened.
    Last edited by sirpuma; 10-12-2011 at 09:18 PM.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenIsFaster View Post
    Allegedly. So was he charged for anything?
    Per that same article.

    The costumed Jones, 23, was arrested on suspicion of fourth-degree assault just before 3 a.m., accused of using pepper spray on four people who were treated by medics, according to a Seattle police report.

    Jones — whose real name is Benjamin John Francis Fodor — spent a little over seven hours in the King County Jail before posting $3,800 bail Sunday afternoon, according to jail records and Kimberly Mills, a spokeswoman for Seattle City Attorney Pete Holmes.

  25. #25
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirpuma View Post
    Ah, yes, this shot, where our masked crusader actually physically HIT the car as it drove by. The guy in white didn't get hit, not sure why he was in the street. Perhaps the person who was trying to get away from the masked assailant couldn't tell which way to go. And whether or not the driver was trying to hit the guy in white is unknown. And it still doesn't negate the fact that if he hadn't run down there and sprayed those people, none of that would have happened.
    "not sure why he was in the street" does it really matter it is pretty clear the drivers intent was to hit him with his car and no less he was in the cross walk and by law you are required to stop.

    "couldn't tell which way to go" cone on really, if the driver was afraid then why did they do a U Turn to come right back at him instead of continue driving away?

    I feel SPD DROPPED THE BALL BIG TIME.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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