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Thread: First Ak or AR open carry!!!!!!

  1. #1
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    First Ak or AR open carry!!!!!!

    I'm ready to roll out with my above stated guns alone or with a group!!!!

    Let me know if anyone interested in a long gun carry/protest/coffee etc.

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    I fully support this

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    Ill be hooking up a sling to my flintlock rifle, cant wait to see the look on the cops face trying to figure out if its loaded or not...

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    Be careful here. Some of us who are and have already done this have been sanctioned a bit by the management here. Long gun OC is still against the grain unless there's been a re-tooling lately

  5. #5
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfeinstein View Post
    I'm ready to roll out with my above stated guns alone or with a group!!!!

    Let me know if anyone interested in a long gun carry/protest/coffee etc.
    Please consider another form of long gun carry. While we know that this will likely be met with alarm by police and onlookers, it is a certainty that carrying AR and AK variants will alienate those who are our allies. Long guns with a wood stock > black rifle with bullet button.

    I also do not understand why people are so overly anxious to commence long gun carry when AB144 will not go into effect until January 1, 2012.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
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  6. #6
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    Please consider another form of long gun carry. While we know that this will likely be met with alarm by police and onlookers, it is a certainty that carrying AR and AK variants will alienate those who are our allies. Long guns with a wood stock > black rifle with bullet button.

    I also do not understand why people are so overly anxious to commence long gun carry when AB144 will not go into effect until January 1, 2012.
    Mike started this discussion. It is one of the stickies. IMHO LGOC is a natural conequence to tyranny.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    Please consider another form of long gun carry. While we know that this will likely be met with alarm by police and onlookers, it is a certainty that carrying AR and AK variants will alienate those who are our allies. Long guns with a wood stock > black rifle with bullet button.

    I also do not understand why people are so overly anxious to commence long gun carry when AB144 will not go into effect until January 1, 2012.
    Who are these allies you speak of? Apparently, not enough to block this stupid POS law. Go for broke.

  8. #8
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Mike started this discussion. It is one of the stickies. IMHO LGOC is a natural conequence to tyranny.
    Who started the long gun thread is not really relevant. Mike, while he is a co-founder of this website and a respected member of the pro-rights community is not in a position to blanket endorse the carry of all forms of long arms in California. The reality is that we have just come through a two year battle to fight for the right to carry an unloaded handgun and the gun community is not strong enough to break the hold of the Democrat dominated legislature and the hubris of a Democrat governor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovenox View Post
    Who are these allies you speak of? Apparently, not enough to block this stupid POS law. Go for broke.
    The allies I speak of were the people who carved out a niche where AR and AK platform rifles may still be legal to own in California. If we continue this strategy to its logical conclusion while the legislature intends to do our movement harm, we will not only not be able to carry unloaded handguns, but we may well end up with a new assault weapons law to boot. And in the current environment, there would be little to do to stop it besides a last resort contingency.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
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  9. #9
    Regular Member hgreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    If we continue this strategy to its logical conclusion while the legislature intends to do our movement harm, we will not only not be able to carry unloaded handguns, but we may well end up with a new assault weapons law to boot.
    Woah... Been drinking the same kool-aid as the LA Times huh?? "Don't exercise right X or they'll BAN it."

    While it may be true that they'll ban it, the threats of tyranny shouldn't dissuade the exercise of freedom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hgreen View Post
    Woah... Been drinking the same kool-aid as the LA Times huh?? "Don't exercise right X or they'll BAN it."

    While it may be true that they'll ban it, the threats of tyranny shouldn't dissuade the exercise of freedom.
    Hey hgreen,

    +1

    Beware the Kool-aid drinker.

    Off topic: How is Virginia?

    Nice to hear from you.

    markm

  11. #11
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hgreen View Post
    Woah... Been drinking the same kool-aid as the LA Times huh?? "Don't exercise right X or they'll BAN it."

    While it may be true that they'll ban it, the threats of tyranny shouldn't dissuade the exercise of freedom.
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkBofRAdvocate View Post
    Hey hgreen,

    +1

    Beware the Kool-aid drinker.

    Off topic: How is Virginia?

    Nice to hear from you.

    markm
    Do you really want to see what kind of Kool-Aid I have been drinking?

    Let's examine just how Quixotic it is to tilt at the anti-gun ******** we have to deal with in California.

    In the State Senate there are 25 Democrats (62.5%) and 15 Republicans.
    In the State Assembly there are 52 Democrats (65%) and 28 Republicans.
    The Democrats have a 2/3rds advantage in every single bill that they consider in both houses.
    The Democrats also hold the Governor's office.

    When these proud legislators promote their bill and claim they 'have broad bi-partisan support' what they are really saying is that all the Democrats and 4 'moderate' Republicans have endorsed their legislation. Almost none of the Republican bills survive the committee process. These legislators and our governor also are influenced by police unions that have their hands so far up the lawmakers posteriors that Charlie McCarthy looks less like a ventriloquist's dummy than Anthony Portantino or Tom Ammiano do.

    What this means in a nutshell is that the two houses and the governor can pass any legislation they want and there isnt a damn thing that the conservatives can do about it besides stall the inevitable- as they valiantly did in 2010 with AB 1934. The only hope that we had this year is the few pro-rights Democrats defecting to vote against AB 144 and the false hope that Jerry Brown believed in our right to keep and carry arms.

    So, right now, what we as California 2A proponents can control is what level of destruction we are willing to accept; bullet buttoned OLL's or the extention of the ban on unloaded handguns to include long guns as well... or perhaps the extention of the school zone to 2,000 feet as they will argue long guns are a public safety threat with their added lethal range. This will be the case until we have some judicial relief imposed upon them.

    I am not telling you to leave everything at home- I am telling you to carefully choose what you select to make your political point. Right now, an AR or AK variant is not what you want to send your message with- because using those will burn any bridges with those who have spent their fortunes and efforts to ensure we may have a class of weapon that is on par with military equipment, if there is another legislative response to our activities.

    To blindly believe that such a legislative response is not likely or possible IS the definition of Kool-Aid, especially after the results have been demonstrated right in front of you.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
    www.shop42a.com

  12. #12
    Regular Member hgreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    Do you really want to see what kind of Kool-Aid I have been drinking?Let's examine just how Quixotic it is to tilt at the anti-gun ******** we have to deal with in California.In the State Senate there are 25 Democrats (62.5%) and 15 Republicans.In the State Assembly there are 52 Democrats (65%) and 28 Republicans.The Democrats have a 2/3rds advantage in every single bill that they consider in both houses.The Democrats also hold the Governor's office.When these proud legislators promote their bill and claim they 'have broad bi-partisan support' what they are really saying is that all the Democrats and 4 'moderate' Republicans have endorsed their legislation. Almost none of the Republican bills survive the committee process. These legislators and our governor also are influenced by police unions that have their hands so far up the lawmakers posteriors that Charlie McCarthy looks less like a ventriloquist's dummy than Anthony Portantino or Tom Ammiano do.What this means in a nutshell is that the two houses and the governor can pass any legislation they want and there isnt a damn thing that the conservatives can do about it besides stall the inevitable- as they valiantly did in 2010 with AB 1934. The only hope that we had this year is the few pro-rights Democrats defecting to vote against AB 144 and the false hope that Jerry Brown believed in our right to keep and carry arms.So, right now, what we as California 2A proponents can control is what level of destruction we are willing to accept; bullet buttoned OLL's or the extention of the ban on unloaded handguns to include long guns as well... or perhaps the extention of the school zone to 2,000 feet as they will argue long guns are a public safety threat with their added lethal range. This will be the case until we have some judicial relief imposed upon them. I am not telling you to leave everything at home- I am telling you to carefully choose what you select to make your political point. Right now, an AR or AK variant is not what you want to send your message with- because using those will burn any bridges with those who have spent their fortunes and efforts to ensure we may have a class of weapon that is on par with military equipment, if there is another legislative response to our activities.To blindly believe that such a legislative response is not likely or possible IS the definition of Kool-Aid, especially after the results have been demonstrated right in front of you.
    Not sure who you are lecturing on the situation in CA, everyone here knows its stacked. Secondly, you should reread the post you quoted, no one is saying they wont ban long gun carry, in fact they may ban it regardless if a single person LGOCs.

    The point is that just because there are those that seek to take your freedoms does not mean you should shy from excersizing them.

    If you don't like the stacked deck in CA, leave!

    It is not getting better there in terms of having any hope of electing representatives with conservative values.

    Or enjoy the few freedoms that are left while you can, then bunker up for the years it will take for the wheels of justice to kick in.
    Last edited by hgreen; 10-12-2011 at 12:02 AM. Reason: posting from phone did not preserve spacing

  13. #13
    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein

    What my fellow OC supporting comrades do not seem to comprehend is that legislatively we are fighting a rear guard action. The object is to not lose too much until we are able to choose the ground upon which to stand or counter attack. That high ground will be found once bear gets court protection, not before. Our great object should have been to educate non-controversially until our position was more secure.
    Last edited by cato; 10-12-2011 at 01:25 AM.

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    Regular Member hgreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cato View Post
    Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein
    EXACTLY! How many years have the "big" gun rights groups in California been saying "don't go ruffle feathers", just wait "two more weeks", etc. over and over again... Meanwhile the VAST VAST majority of Californian's remain unable to defend themselves in public...

    Enter the OC movement (focusing on CA for now since if we consider the OC movement anywhere else in the country it TOTALLY blows all your arguments out of the water since there have been no bans on OC outside of CA since the OC movement went mainstream and the VAST majority of the OCers are carrying LOADED and LONG GUNs on occasion)... No one was OCing for the sake of preventing a ban.

    People were OCing because it was the best available, legal, means they had to defend themselves PLUS it had the added benefit of being a great conversation starter which lead to literally thousands more people learning about their 2A rights and becoming active in the 2A community (whether they chose to OC or not).

    Lets be honest for a minute, the anti's didn't ban open carry because soccer moms were scared of seeing guns, unless you believe the bull **** they say to justify their gun control measures. They banned it because they want power and they want to limit our ability to effectively educate gun rights to the people. People that are educated about their rights (regardless of whether they exercise them) are a THREAT to the CA political establishment AND THEY KNOW IT.

    Yes, I say EFFECTIVELY because how many other 2A rallies in CA garnered such media attention in the last decade? The few SBOC events I had the privilege of organizing received TV news coverage and print coverage more than I can count, resulting in literally thousands of people learning about their 2A rights in California. The last "2A" rally I saw attempted by another pro-2A rights group occurred in down-town LA and barely got back page print press on one (maybe two) outlets, how's that for effective??

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    Let's clarify something here.

    Do I think people should start UOCing long guns, nope. I expect we'll just create AB-145... As I originally predicted UOC in California would only succeed at getting UOC banned.

    However, since this community doesn't care to listen to me generally I have one specific ask. Please don't chose an AR/AK/FAL or other guns that but for featurelessness or bullet buttons would be prohibited semiautomatics.

    Standard shotguns, long guns - stick to that. Please keep the damage confined to the general class of long arms and not the politically vulnerable class of military looking rifles.

    I mean, if you're trying to make a point, carry an M1, M1 Carbine, or lever action. Those are the traditional guns to open carry. Just ask the Black Panthers.

    -Gene

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    HGreen,

    I don't think you see the battlefield in CA through clear lenses. I agree that nobody was scared. The power elite, Dems & cops, were annoyed that's all.

    The difference in OC movements between CA and other states was two fold; more gun culture and a state right to arms that was protected by solid jurisprudence. Ohio didn't take off with OC self defense walks until Kline was decided.

    UOC in Ca was premature and directly contributed to this loss. And so will LGUOC. It serves no tactical benefit and can do long term damage.
    Last edited by cato; 10-12-2011 at 12:42 AM.

  17. #17
    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hgreen View Post
    ...Meanwhile the VAST VAST majority of Californian's remain unable to defend themselves in public...
    As it has been since 1968. (Thanks Governor Reagan and Republican legislature)

    The wheels of justice do move slowly but bear will be achieved in 2012/13.

    You contributed to freeing 1,000,000 Sac County residence how? Yes they now have access to dreaded licenses to carry loaded for 'self defense' like those in FL & TX (I hate licenses but I'm not a justice or legislator and have little power in the matter).

    I like the group you formed and the passion of its membership. It was for not because it was a tactic who's time had not arrived.
    Last edited by cato; 10-12-2011 at 01:11 AM.

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran Verd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cato View Post
    Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein

    What my fellow OC supporting comrades do not seem to comprehend is that legislatively we are fighting a rear guard action. The object is to not lose too much until we are able to choose the ground upon which to stand or counter attack. That high ground will be found once bear gets court protection, not before. Our great object should have been be to educate non-controversially until our position was more secure.
    +1!!!
    One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them. Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, 1796.
    If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun. - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).
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  19. #19
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    Carrying long guns (rifles, shotguns, muzzle loaders, tactical rifles, etc.) out in public into a coffee shop, restaurant, city park, or the shopping mall, etc., is just asking for trouble.

    Those who participate in such a public display will certainly get what they are craving....ATTENTION!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    Carrying long guns (rifles, shotguns, muzzle loaders, tactical rifles, etc.) out in public into a coffee shop, restaurant, city park, or the shopping mall, etc., is just asking for trouble.

    Those who participate in such a public display will certainly get what they are craving....ATTENTION!
    I don't think my OC brothers and sisters are carrying for attention. Their reasons include mainly self defense and outreach. It's just that we are not in a secure position to do this more then one or two legislative cycles. We need a kind of OC Hippocratic oath: do no legislative harm.
    Last edited by cato; 10-12-2011 at 01:39 AM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
    Let's clarify something here.

    Do I think people should start UOCing long guns, nope. I expect we'll just create AB-145... As I originally predicted UOC in California would only succeed at getting UOC banned.

    However, since this community doesn't care to listen to me generally I have one specific ask. Please don't chose an AR/AK/FAL or other guns that but for featurelessness or bullet buttons would be prohibited semiautomatics.

    Standard shotguns, long guns - stick to that. Please keep the damage confined to the general class of long arms and not the politically vulnerable class of military looking rifles.

    I mean, if you're trying to make a point, carry an M1, M1 Carbine, or lever action. Those are the traditional guns to open carry. Just ask the Black Panthers.

    -Gene
    That's all I own anyway, and I'm too poor for new stuff. For once I agree with your effort (as pertaining to OC). I think that we would be exhibiting an ages old practice by carrying the basic rifle or shotgun, and while that is enough for outreach, it will not alienate a bigger majority of pro gun people as more aggressive looking and less traditional ones would. Our strategy on this would be to incorporate outreach for safe use and promotion of the sport and self-reliance that are associated with ownership and use. It's pretty hard to do that if you don't have a firearm to show, but it also doesn't have a look that invokes apprehension. Guns invoke enough of that already. One of the reasons (not the entire one) I don't attend the gun gatherings at restaurants and such was that it seemed a little ingenuine to me. Nobody was going hunting, shooting, or educating really. The latter one did have some educational effect, but mostly incidental. If you're going to educate, set up a booth or table, and pass out fliers and give speeches with your firearms with you. I'm not denouncing the efforts of others who have held the meetings in the past, but just sharing an opinion. I don't know everything, so I am not trying to berate. This is what I'll be doing though, and we;ll see how it goes. My last rifle hike to the gun range was far less tumultuous than the one before it, and maybe fine tuning or even re-tooling as we go is a good thing as opposed to hey-diddle-diddle, straight-up-the-middle.

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    Hey guys, not from California, but from NC. First off Im really sorry about browns treasonist bill he signed. Now, I love the idea of a long gun protest,step back a minute. How about a protest with correct time of the revolution black powder rifles only. Here in NC, muzzle loaders are not considered firearms,this will be very confusing to the sheep, but with the right signs, and a good bunch of planners,I think the measage will be clear and no one can use the AR<AK against you, which they will. Just my opinion. We had an OC restore the constitution rally a couple of years ago, went real well. We were carrying ARs and Aks plus much more, but it was planned and advertised.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by wethepeople View Post
    Hey guys, not from California, but from NC. First off Im really sorry about browns treasonist bill he signed. Now, I love the idea of a long gun protest,step back a minute. How about a protest with correct time of the revolution black powder rifles only. Here in NC, muzzle loaders are not considered firearms,this will be very confusing to the sheep, but with the right signs, and a good bunch of planners,I think the measage will be clear and no one can use the AR<AK against you, which they will.
    I don't think there are that many people among us that have black powder weapons, or the knowledge it takes to use them. Plus, I opine that they are too quaint to be effective communicators or inspirational.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donny View Post
    Puleeze. Every single OCer I have ever dealt with is carrying for attention. It doesn't take a degree in physiology to see it in their behavior and mannerisms. More often than not it's blatantly obvious.
    You should change your circle to include more normal people.....
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  25. #25
    Regular Member RandomOC's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    at this point, flintlock/percussion muzzle loaders. Don't forget your tricorn hats.





    I turn left way better then you.
    Last edited by RandomOC; 10-12-2011 at 12:24 PM.

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