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Thread: No Contact Order?

  1. #1
    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    No Contact Order?

    I've been working with a few people I know locally that are going up for their CCDW this coming weekend. Additionally, I have been including a couple others in with these people I know and teaching them basic firearms information and knowledge as well, over the past few weeks.

    One of the people I've been teaching basic firearms to (they're NOT going up for their CCDW though) had a court case on Monday. Nothing major, just a basic roommates issue and property dispute that has no legs to it. The case was dismissed in the court system by the presiding judge in the case due to no evidence on the part of the other party (NOT the individual I've been teaching). The other party has decided to take it to small claims court now and the presiding judge has issues a "No Contact Order" for 2 years from yesterday's date; not a problem as the person that I've been teaching has no interest whatsoever in talking to or even seeing the other party.

    My query is this, I know that if an EPO is issued, you can NOT have a firearm, as is my understanding. But this isn't an EPO, it's a "No Contact Order" meaning, according the Justice Center, that they can been within 10 feet or more but can NOT make physical contact or talk to each other, which is great! But does this "NCO" affect their ability to use or fire a weapon now?

    From my understanding of what they were told, it doesn't affect their using a firearm but I wanted to bounce this off my fellow forum posters to see if anyone had better infomation on this subject. Additionally, if this person decides to go up for their CCDW within the next 2 years will this affect their chances?
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    The no contact order does not affect carrying or owning firearms. Only epo/dvo's take away your rights, and are just as easy to obtain. Any family member or someone you live with can go to courthouse, fill out paperwork and suddenly you are treated like a felon, even if there is no evidence to the other parties claims, this is one piece of legislation that needs fixed, to keep innocent people from losing their rights.

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    I'd want to get to the root of the order. Sounds like your client had threatened the other person, or had some event, which then resulted in causing the judge to submit this order. If you really want to know have him ask the judge who put in the order if it precludes carrying a firearm, whatever method (OC or CC).

    As the instructor it's probably in your best interests to steer clear of this kind of thing or be sure you know the extent before you hand out any permits or anything (not sure of your role).

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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    The no contact order does not affect carrying or owning firearms. Only epo/dvo's take away your rights, and are just as easy to obtain. Any family member or someone you live with can go to courthouse, fill out paperwork and suddenly you are treated like a felon, even if there is no evidence to the other parties claims, this is one piece of legislation that needs fixed, to keep innocent people from losing their rights.
    EPO's do not take away your right to possess or openly carry a firearm. Only certain DVO's do that. There is a 3 requirements to terminate your rights, one of them is a court hearing, an EPO issued until a court hearing. There is more to it than that, but either way you can still own/open carry firearms.

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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    I'd want to get to the root of the order. Sounds like your client had threatened the other person, or had some event, which then resulted in causing the judge to submit this order. If you really want to know have him ask the judge who put in the order if it precludes carrying a firearm, whatever method (OC or CC).

    As the instructor it's probably in your best interests to steer clear of this kind of thing or be sure you know the extent before you hand out any permits or anything (not sure of your role).

    $.02
    No, the person I've been working with had been roommates with the other party and they had breached the agreement they had with my individual, this resulted in my person kicking them out and the police forcing them to leave the residence that my person rented under lease. There were not threats made, in fact they hadn't even been around the other party since they had them removed. The judge that was presiding in the case issued a NCO to make sure that the other party left my person alone and didn't attempt to harrass them.

    The person I've been working with isn't going up for their CCDW, just being trained in basic firearms safety and firearms handling and shooting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyh9900 View Post
    EPO's do not take away your right to possess or openly carry a firearm. Only certain DVO's do that. There is a 3 requirements to terminate your rights, one of them is a court hearing, an EPO issued until a court hearing. There is more to it than that, but either way you can still own/open carry firearms.
    Krs 237.110/(13)(k), 237.102, 237.095, 403.740(1)(h), U.S.C 18(44)(8ab) here is the law pertaining to what i had already stated, once a dvo is issued, you can't own, possess, or carry any firearm, and when an epo is issued which lasts up to 14 days or until a hearing can be set for a dvo, the courts can simply Check on the complaint for surrender of all firearms, and they most always do so, telling someone they can possess firearms when in fact they cannot, and doing so would make them a felon would not be a very moral thing to do....

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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    Krs 237.110/(13)(k), 237.102, 237.095, 403.740(1)(h), U.S.C 18(44)(8ab) here is the law pertaining to what i had already stated, once a dvo is issued, you can't own, possess, or carry any firearm, and when an epo is issued which lasts up to 14 days or until a hearing can be set for a dvo, the courts can simply Check on the complaint for surrender of all firearms, and they most always do so, telling someone they can possess firearms when in fact they cannot, and doing so would make them a felon would not be a very moral thing to do....
    The only thing an EPO can do is force you to surrender your CDWL. Sure a judge can write what ever he wants on a court order, but that does not make it legal or enforceable, but your avenue of correction on that is the through appeals. Out of the thousands of epo's i've seen I have never seen a judge or commissioner write that on an epo. An EPO does not terminate your right to bare arms. Not all DVO's terminate your right to bare arms.

    There something called a "brady indicator" which determines if your rights have been terminated. There is a 3 or 4 part test (depending on how you look at it, in my profession capacity its a 3 part test) used to determine the brady indicator for a particular respondent of a EPO/DVO.

    1. Was the order issued after a hearing of which the defendant received actual notice and had the opportunity to be heard?

    2. Is the petitioner an ''intimate partner'' within the meaning of 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(32) being a spouse, former spouse, a person who cohabitates or has cohabited with the Defendant, a parent of a common child, or a child of one of these people, or a child of the defendant?

    3. Does the order of protection restrain the respondent from harassing, stalking, or threatening the plaintiff or protected person(s)?

    All three must be yes for the person to be prohibited from possessing firearms, if any of the above are answered no then the respondent can still bear arms. An EPO is issued before a hearing, so the answer to question 1 is no. Not all DVO's meet condition 2 (although it has became more difficult for people not meeting the criteria for condition 2 to get an EPO/DVO). I've even seen a few DVO's that don't meet condition 3.

    Now officially the brady test is a 4 part test, the 4th part being:
    Does the court find the respondent represents a credible threat to the petitioner? If this in answered no there is no DVO, so the paperwork police agencies use to determine the brady status doesn't have this on there.

    I was a police dispatcher for 7 years and a deputy sheriff for 4 years. I dealt with this stuff everyday. I've even seen an officer's wife come and get an epo against him, it didn't effect his job or carrying a gun during the epo. As always if you become the subject of an epo, seek the advice of an attorney who has experience in dealing with epo's, especially if it contains a written order not to carry guns.
    Last edited by garyh9900; 10-13-2011 at 10:29 AM.

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    Once a dvo has been issued it automatically meets all three requirements of federal law to lose your right to possess firearms until the order is terminated. If it did not meet all three it wouldn't be a dvo, it would simply be a restraining or no contact order. Ask anyone who has ever been on the receiving end of one, even if the complainant fabricates a story, then a couple weeks later is back in court telling the judge how they lied and wanted rid of the dvo. Until that order is terminated bye bye guns. This is why I said they need to investigate these complaints more than they do, which where I'm from they don't do any investigation, the judges simply say they must issue it, because if something happens they say they'd be responsible, which is bulls''t, but they do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    Once a dvo has been issued it automatically meets all three requirements of federal law to lose your right to possess firearms until the order is terminated. If it did not meet all three it wouldn't be a dvo, it would simply be a restraining or no contact order. Ask anyone who has ever been on the receiving end of one, even if the complainant fabricates a story, then a couple weeks later is back in court telling the judge how they lied and wanted rid of the dvo. Until that order is terminated bye bye guns. This is why I said they need to investigate these complaints more than they do, which where I'm from they don't do any investigation, the judges simply say they must issue it, because if something happens they say they'd be responsible, which is bulls''t, but they do.
    I completely agree with you that they should be investigated more. I don't think it should be the rubber stamp process that it currently is. But as I said before it must meet all parts of the test for someone to loose their right to bear arms. If you go and get an epo against your Aunt, and after a hearing the judge grants a DVO that doesn't meet the relationship test, and therefore the brady indicator would be NO, and you could continue to posses and bear arms. Now 5 years ago it was pretty easy to get an epo/dvo on about anyone, but they have began to scrutinize the relationship a bit more, so there is not as many dvo's that fail to meet that condition today. I have also seen a few DVO's where the only condition of the order was to attend counseling, that too fails the test, the order must prohibit and future acts of violence. That is a check box on the dvo, its not automatic, if the judge doesn't check it, it doesn't apply. That box must be checked or the brady is no.
    Last edited by garyh9900; 10-13-2011 at 08:25 PM.

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