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DOJ Concealed Carry rules out

Outdoorsman1

Outdoorsman1

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Joined
Mar 1, 2011
Messages
1,248
Location
Silver Lake WI
mrjam2jab said:
In theory, there is absolutely no reason why they can't issue on the spot. If you walk in with the app, they run the background check then issue the permit....
Click to expand...

In theory yes... But Act 35 says something about the DOJ has 21 days after Nov. 1 to issue or deny the permit....

Snip...

(b) Within 21 days after receiving a complete
application under sub. (7), the department shall do one of
the following:
1. Issue the license and promptly send the licensee his
or her license document by 1st class mail.
2. Deny the application, but only if sub. (3) (a), (b),
(c), (d), (e), (f), or (g) applies to the applicant. If the
department denies the application, the department shall
inform the applicant in writing, stating the reason and
factual basis for the denial.
Click to expand...

Outdoorsman1
 
H

Herr Heckler Koch

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Trip20

Trip20

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"The rules need to be reined in," Walker said. "We just got the rules dropped off - or the proposed emergency rules dropped off the other day - but I've talked to the attorney general (J.B. Van Hollen) about this, and I talked this morning to Pam Galloway, the state senator who authored it, and we both feel pretty strongly that the law was pretty clear-cut. There was a pretty limited role for administrative rules. It was more for the technical process that was used but that the parameters were very well set out in the state statutes."
Click to expand...

:cuss:
 
X

xenophon

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Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
So if one has a New Hampshire license, or a Pennsylvania CCW license, can one submit those (along with the statement saying they were not revoked) according to the emergency rules, and be good to go?
 
X

xenophon

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paul@paul-fisher.com said:
Any license/permit. Yep.
Click to expand...

Ok sweet. I read it like 5 times and looked for any other definitions of "another state" and didn't see one. SO boys and girls, if you hold an out of state license somewhere else, I'm thinking submitting a copy of that is easier than figuring out if that cert document from training you have meets those 2x10^9 requirements that need to be on a damn cert. (under the emergency rules)

 187 (h) A copy of a current or expired license held by the applicant indicating that the applicant is or has been licensed to carry a firearm in this state, in another state, or in a county or
188 municipality of this state or of another state, provided that the current or expired license has not
189 been revoked for cause. The copy of the current or expired license must be accompanied by the
190 applicant’s signed affirmation that the current or expired license has not been revoked for cause.

191 This affirmation shall be submitted on an affirmation form that shall be prepared by the
192 department and made available to the public on the department’s Internet site.


Keeping an eye out for that affirmation form...

 
M

mrjam2jab

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Levittown, Pennsylvania, USA
Outdoorsman1 said:
In theory yes... But Act 35 says something about the DOJ has 21 days after Nov. 1 to issue or deny the permit....
Click to expand...


They are allowed X number of days...but nothing says they have to use them. If a flag comes up during the computer background check, then you take some more time to clear it up. If no flags, the person walks out with the permit. Would prevent the issuing authority from getting backed up in the process.


xenophon said:

Keeping an eye out for that affirmation form...
Click to expand...


That affirmation form is kind of stupid really...tell me they are not going to call the issuing state of the permit you submit to check it?
 
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Q

qball54208

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GREEN BAY, Wisconsin, USA
This question may have been answered already here or there, how does this affect current/former Military w/a DD214 w/Honorable discharge? Does that still satisfy the training requirement?
Thanks
 
H

Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
qball54208 said:
This question may have been answered already here or there, how does this affect current/former Military w/a DD214 w/Honorable discharge? Does that still satisfy the training requirement?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Yes. JUS 17.05(1) Training and documentation requirements. (1) The following forms of documentation shall be accepted by the department as adequate proof of training sufficient to satisfy the training requirements of s. 175.60(4)(a), Stats., and of this section: (i) A copy of a DD Form 214, “Certificate of Release or Discharge from Active Duty,” issued by the United States Department of Defense, showing that the applicant has received an honorable discharge or a general discharge under honorable conditions from the United States armed forces, reserves, or national guard after completion of basic training ..."
 
paul@paul-fisher.com

paul@paul-fisher.com

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Rumor has it a similar letter from ALL Republican Assembly members was sent as well.

I am trying to get a copy.

October 17, 2011Thank you for contacting me with your concerns and opposition to the recent action by the Department of Justice to advance emergency rules relating to 2011 Wisconsin Act 35, the concealed carry law.
As you know, these temporary rules, among other things, require a person to have at least four hours of firearms training in order to satisfy the training component of the law. However, as you also know, the Legislature did not call for such a requirement, only that some type of training could be verified by the applicant. In fact, the Legislature – on two separate occasions – rejected amendments that would have set a specific length of time for such training. The Attorney General, though, felt it necessary to set such time lengths in the temporary emergency rule; by that action, he has gone beyond the intent of the Legislature. While the Governor did have an opportunity to reject the emergency rules, he chose not to, as doing so might have delayed the implementation of the law by November 1, 2011. As a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee which directly dealt with this issue, I co-authored a letter with my Republican colleagues last week calling on the Governor to uphold the intent of the Legislature regarding these rules, if at all possible. For your review, I have attached a copy of that letter with this message.
As the co-author of the original ‘constitutional carry’ bill, and one of only three members of the Legislature who voted in the affirmative for the constitutional carry bill, I share your disappointment with the action of the Department of Justice. The emergency rules will now go forward, however the Department will need to submit permanent rules to the Legislature in the coming months. Those rules will be reviewed and scrutinized by the Senate Judiciary Committee, and I can assure you, I will carry your message to the committee when those rules come before us. The intent of the Legislature was very clear on this matter, and is something I do not take lightly. I hope officials with the Department understand the gravity of this situation when the permanent rules are crafted; but if not, I will do all I can as a member of the committee to ensure they do.
Again, thank you for contacting me on this matter of mutual concern, I do appreciate hearing from you.
Sincerely,
Neal Kedzie
State Senator
11[SUP]th[/SUP] Senate District
NJK: dj
On the Web at: www.senatorkedzie.comhttp://www.senatorkedzie.com/
Click to expand...



http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19481227/Act 35 rules letter to Governor 10.14.11.pdf
 
E

E6chevron

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Oct 8, 2011
Messages
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Location
Milwaukee Wisconsin
xenophon said:


Ok sweet. I read it like 5 times and looked for any other definitions of "another state" and didn't see one. SO boys and girls, if you hold an out of state license somewhere else, I'm thinking submitting a copy of that is easier than figuring out if that cert document from training you have meets those 2x10^9 requirements that need to be on a damn cert. (under the emergency rules)

 187 (h) A copy of a current or expired license held by the applicant indicating that the applicant is or has been licensed to carry a firearm in this state, in another state, or in a county or
188 municipality of this state or of another state, provided that the current or expired license has not
189 been revoked for cause. The copy of the current or expired license must be accompanied by the
190 applicant’s signed affirmation that the current or expired license has not been revoked for cause.

191 This affirmation shall be submitted on an affirmation form that shall be prepared by the
192 department and made available to the public on the department’s Internet site.


Keeping an eye out for that affirmation form...
Click to expand...

My understanding is that the purpose/value of the affirmation is to discourage someone from submitting a license / permit that they know has been revoked for cause. If they sign the affirmation and submit the revoked license / permit, they should be aware that they are breaking the law by attempting to obtain a Wisconsin license thru fraud.

-----------------

Paul,

Thank you for the link to the letter sent by some of the key SB93 sponsors to Governor Walker, regarding their recommended way to handle the overreaching rules from DOJ. I agree with this letter.


-----------------

Bear in mind that the proposed DOJ emergency rules with regard to training, primarily overreach with regard to the 4 hour minimum training requirement, and the tight requirements for the certificate/document that verifies that the applicant has passed the training course.

These rules should not be a problem for those who meet the training requirement, thru

175.60 (4)1a Hunter education documentation that is recognized by the Wisconsin department of natural resources.

3 current or expired permit / license to carry firearms from a state or country or municipality, that has not been revoked.

4 Service in the US armed forces, reserves, national guard as demonstrated by an honorable discharge
OR general discharge under honorable conditions
OR certificate of completion of basic training with successful completion of small arms training.

I'm good to go, my Utah permit arrived today.
 
MKEgal

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Messages
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Location
in front of my computer, WI
The department may not impose conditions, limitations, or requirements that are not expressly provided for in this section on the issuance, scope, effect, or content of a license.
Click to expand...
By requiring 4 hours of training, they're imposing conditions NOT expressly provided for in re issuance.
By requiring an affidavit along with a copy of a permit, ditto.

The issue is not that I can't get a permit.
I've got plenty of training & permits that will satisfy even DOJ.
The issue is that DOJ isn't allowed even to ask for what they're requiring.
 
M

McX

Guest
well, at least they have a small list up of those states that get reciprocity.
 
F

Firearms Iinstuctor

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Location
northern wis
Personally I think that if one has a hunter safety cert. thats what one should use.

Mine was issued in 1968, millions of people have them it just shows how foolish this training requirement is.

One could have went through hunters safety 40 plus years ago never touched a gun from then on.

Or has a DT214 from who knows how long ago and never touch a gun from then on.

Or has a new firearms cert from the last month but because it doesn't have the proper wording on it. They are not ready what BS.

Time for consitutional carry
 
McNutty

McNutty

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Joined
Oct 19, 2011
Messages
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Location
Waukesha, Wisconsin
I'm good to go, my Utah permit arrived today.
Click to expand...

I'd also be curious to know when you sent in your application. I was told the time was about 44 days. I mailed in my app on 9/2, charge hit my account on 9/15. I'm hoping that it should be arriving any day now.
 
paul@paul-fisher.com

paul@paul-fisher.com

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Location
Chandler, AZ
According to USPS tracking, they received my application on 9/9, they charged my credit card on 9/16. No permit as of yet. My wife runs to the mailbox every day!!! :banana:
 
Outdoorsman1

Outdoorsman1

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Silver Lake WI
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