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Thread: A Patriot's Response to OC Ban

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    A Patriot's Response to OC Ban

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    Last edited by marinepilot81; 02-01-2012 at 11:46 PM.

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinepilot81 View Post
    Change came after 40,000 blacks boycotted the bus system. Do likewise. 1 year in jail and $1000 in fines for OC!? Let them try that with 40,000 men demanding their God-given rights with the faculty to resist. Seriously, 1 man open carrying in a supermarket is a target, but 40,000 men....not even the 1st Marine Division at Pendleton can disrupt your declaration of rights!
    If there were 40,000 open carriers in California, I doubt that AB144 would have crossed the Governors desk with his signature. The problem is that there are about 400-500 statewide who carried with regularity, and that they are not well recieved even in the gun community. It is a testement however, that these few people were able to engender such a change that more than a dozen legal memos were written to educate various departments and instigate a legislative response.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    Calguns.net Statistics
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    I think it would be a fair estimate to say that it would be hard to muster 40k gunnies in CA without limiting it to OCers...

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    Deleted.
    Last edited by marinepilot81; 02-01-2012 at 11:50 PM.

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    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    I would do whatever it took to attend such an event. The problem is that such an event would require the full support and participation of Calguns, SAF, NRA, GOC, et al...but they'll never do it.
    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

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    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    It would be amazing to get a couple hundred people to be on the capital lawn as the law became in effect.... UOCing at midnight the day before the law took effect to illustrate how you go from being regular every day people to criminals via the stroke of a pen.... also would be interesting to see if the po-po is waiting to disarm you all....

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HKcarrier View Post
    It would be amazing to get a couple hundred people to be on the capital lawn as the law became in effect.... UOCing at midnight the day before the law took effect to illustrate how you go from being regular every day people to criminals via the stroke of a pen.... also would be interesting to see if the po-po is waiting to disarm you all....
    The state Capitol is a state park- weapons are prohibited on the grounds. Im certain that Sacramento PD would be happy to oblige such a demonstration by arresting you for a new misdemeanor.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
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    Regular Member Save Our State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    The state Capitol is a state park- weapons are prohibited on the grounds. Im certain that Sacramento PD would be happy to oblige such a demonstration by arresting you for a new misdemeanor.
    I do believe holding an event at the state capitol with guns can be permitted, 'cause I've seen them before, although they must be cleared and inspected by the CHP. I am not sure how the new law might factor into this though

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    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    The state Capitol is a state park- weapons are prohibited on the grounds. Im certain that Sacramento PD would be happy to oblige such a demonstration by arresting you for a new misdemeanor.
    Being that I"m not in Cali, I don't know that... but it was just an example anyways... replace capital with "historic gathering place" or "noted protest area" or "place to get you a lot of attention"

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    Regular Member hgreen's Avatar
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    I believe there are exceptions for parades and other "official/sanctioned" events for both school zone law and probably open carry restrictions.

    Just get a parade permit and you're good. Otherwise how do all the armed service parades or ROTC marches happen? You just got to play their games.

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    Deleted.
    Last edited by marinepilot81; 02-01-2012 at 11:48 PM.

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    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    Some of those quotes you listed aren't mine. I fully understand what you are suggesting. This wouldn't be a "parade". This would be a full on "you won't be disarming me" demonstration with thousands of law-abiding handgun and long gun owners LOC'ing. Expect snipers, swat and maybe even the national guard. This wouldn't be another UOC free speech gig, but an anti-disarmament, true 2A gig.

    My prediction...it'll never come to pass because not a single 2A rights organizations would be a part of it.
    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

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    Regular Member Save Our State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinepilot81 View Post

    You missed my point entirely, sir. I would not allow them to E-check me, fine me, arrest me, or anything else. Nor would I be asking for a permit. I would - while maintaining the faculty to resist - peacefully stand my ground, assert my rights, and force California to answer to the US people, media, and government.
    The CHP and the Sac PD could muster the necessary forces to arrest up to as many carriers as we could ask to do this. The governor could summon the guard as well

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Save Our State View Post
    The CHP and the Sac PD could muster the necessary forces to arrest up to as many carriers as we could ask to do this. The governor could summon the guard as well
    I agree. To those who disagree: Two words: Tear gas. Two more: Rubber pellets. Last two: Rodney King. The police are equipped to disband large crowds of people if necessary. I doubt enough people in California would get together to actually become a challenge for the police.
    Last edited by thebigsd; 10-14-2011 at 06:56 PM.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Regular Member Save Our State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinepilot81 View Post
    The police and military are hopelessly unimaginative. You know their tactics. React accordingly.
    I would rather go into this with the support of the police. I personally don't want to fight with law enforcement. They don't have much in the way of choices. We come with arms; they are trained to defend. that's their job. If they stand down, they get fired. I'd like to look for more creative methods first, and try to find ways to allow them NOT to arrest us. I think what you're suggesting is hey-diddle-diddle; straight-up-the-middle. Quite frankly, we don't have the infrastructure or numbers in place to employ such a strategy

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    Deleted.
    Last edited by marinepilot81; 02-01-2012 at 11:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marinepilot81 View Post
    You've been working with the police and educating the public for 50 years. How's that working for Californians?
    There have been successes. California could have been saved early on, but the feds worked against us. The arena has widened now. I can say that educating has actually kept things from being much worse in some regards.

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    "We've got to turn the people on. They are the government now. They have the
    power now. It's not something that somebody's gunna' give you". John Lennon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marinepilot81 View Post
    Well I was suggesting peaceful, armed demonstrations and purposefully avoided discussing tactics or "shaping the battlefield" on open forum.

    You are right that up the middle would be a catastrophe. Do something else. You are wrong, however, to think the police will ever work with you. It's a Milgram's Experiment kinda thing: They're not evil; they just don't do what's right under authority.

    You've been working with the police and educating the public for 50 years. How's that working for Californians?

    "The battle, Sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, Sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable; and let it come! I repeat, Sir, let it come!" -- Patrick Henry
    It has taken them, slowly around 30 years now to get people to believe in "Case Law", now that is
    what they use at a judges discretion.
    He now makes the rules as they go.

    The law is no longer based on the Constitution and Common law, but has been replaced by
    "Case Law Precedence".
    So that's what happend to the people of California.
    The oath that the Authority, takes is no longer binding, because they have joined a Corporation
    or a department, which also belongs to the same Corporation.
    Its about money, power and control.
    I know its sad
    And there's not one congressman to help us, in the whole state.
    Why has not one taken up the cause of Constitutional Carry, Its our right !

    Its like a sinking ship when the hole in it is to big to patch, its time to find a life vest
    or life boat before you drown.

    Sad day in Kali Robin47

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolusername2007 View Post
    Some of those quotes you listed aren't mine. I fully understand what you are suggesting. This wouldn't be a "parade". This would be a full on "you won't be disarming me" demonstration with thousands of law-abiding handgun and long gun owners LOC'ing. Expect snipers, swat and maybe even the national guard. This wouldn't be another UOC free speech gig, but an anti-disarmament, true 2A gig.

    My prediction...it'll never come to pass because not a single 2A rights organizations would be a part of it.
    +1

    Thats because the 2A rights groups know they have more to gain at this point through judicious use of the justice system then by civil disobedience of this type.

    Folks can UOC long guns all they want, but the Cali legislature will not bend, they simply don't have to because they have the popular support so common in a nanny state where most the population has been scared into submission.

    What the Cali legislature doesn't have IMHO, is a legal leg to stand on when push comes to shove. They know it, but they really have nothing to loose by going this route. They figure that at worst, the courts will overturn AB 144 and they will be right back where they started, with the joke of UOC. But then they will all be able to hug each-other and say to their scared fawning public "we tried, but the big bad evil gun lobby did it again".

    Make no mistake, they consider this situation to be win or win for them.

    The only way they DON'T win, is if the courts decide that "shall issue" CC must become the law of the land, because the last thing they want is give up control of the elitist CWP system.

    Honestly, I just don't see the courts deciding that way. I figure you will get UOC back in a year or two after the lawsuits start hitting the courts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marinepilot81 View Post
    "They tell us Sir, that we are weak -- unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs, and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak, if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature has placed in our power." -- Patrick Henry
    The one I like is......

    Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased by chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God! I know not what course others may take, as for me, GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH!

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    Regular Member Lawful Aim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Save Our State View Post
    I'd like to look for more creative methods first, and try to find ways to allow them NOT to arrest us.
    Does this mean you are ready to look at some administrative methods in law that will put agencies and officers under obligation to respect unalienable rights before they can even say, "Hold on. May we talk to you for a moment?"
    The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it. -Albert Einstein
    Liberty that was diminished in increments has never been restored by the same. -Lawful Aim
    One who compromises in steps toward freedom will always be compromising. -Lawful Aim
    It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds. -Samuel Adams

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawful Aim View Post
    Does this mean you are ready to look at some administrative methods in law that will put agencies and officers under obligation to respect unalienable rights before they can even say, "Hold on. May we talk to you for a moment?"
    Of course; I've said before that I agree with some or many of your claims. I've also said that when they start working to the point they become a threat to the heirarchy, they will address them and bring it to a halt. For that reason, I'm not willing to place any of my supposed "inalienable rights" on the table for denial. In other words, I'll attempt anything that won't allow them to declare me a felon.
    But we are also going to employ another strategy here. Flexing our "rights" muscle so to speak. I plan on holding an event at the state capitol to kick it off soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marinepilot81 View Post
    Well I was suggesting peaceful, armed demonstrations and purposefully avoided discussing tactics or "shaping the battlefield" on open forum.

    You are right that up the middle would be a catastrophe. Do something else. You are wrong, however, to think the police will ever work with you. It's a Milgram's Experiment kinda thing: They're not evil; they just don't do what's right under authority.

    You've been working with the police and educating the public for 50 years. How's that working for Californians?

    "The battle, Sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, Sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable; and let it come! I repeat, Sir, let it come!" -- Patrick Henry
    marinepilot81,

    Thank you for knowing the difference between a strategy and tactics. If gun rights organizations knew the difference, we may not be having this written conversation.

    What do you fly?


    markm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawful Aim View Post
    Does this mean you are ready to look at some administrative methods in law that will put agencies and officers under obligation to respect unalienable rights before they can even say, "Hold on. May we talk to you for a moment?"
    Hey Lawfull Aim,

    By administrative, do you mean 42 USC 1983, and 42 USC 1989?

    If so, I agree with you totally. In our current political climate, holding individual LEOs financially responsible for their law-breaking actions would be the most effective tactic.

    Our strategy should be an all-out political war (non-violent) which includes the 1983/1989 tactic as the "right-up-the-middle" coup de main.

    As I recall, a 10th circuit court ruled that "...a lawfully carried firearm is no different than a wallet." (I think that was accurately quoted)

    markm
    Last edited by MarkBofRAdvocate; 10-16-2011 at 03:29 PM. Reason: typo

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