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Thread: Man with a gun seminar in Hanover County 11/2/11

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Man with a gun seminar in Hanover County 11/2/11

    There will be a "How do we respond to a man with a gun" seminar in Hanover on the 2nd of November.
    This will be much like the one in Henrico.

    Hanover has an extremely bad reputation under Bradly and Cook. Hines is IMO a more professional Sheriff and has worked his way through the ranks.

    While Hanover was known as the dumping ground for LEO's (Wash out somewhere else and Hanover will hire you).....the quality of Deputies seems to have improved about 200% in the last few years.

    Unfortunately, there are still a few of the old thugs in the Department.

    It will be interesting to see what they have to say because it's either a NEW DEPARTMENT, or just another Surry County with a new paint job.

    One of Hanover's more famous police shootings was with Deputy Land. A drunk named Figg was stopped in his Driveway for DUI, ran, was so drunk he fell through a fence and while still on the ground aggressively crawling toward the Deputy, was shot numerous times.

    This prompted things like bumper stickers that said "Hanover County where DUI brings a death sentence".

    The Commonwealths Attorney under pressure to take it before the grand jury, Appointed a CA from up north, named Horan. Horan had a reputation for never prosecuting Cops for a shooting.
    He did the same in Hanover.

    There have been other questionable shootings in Hanover. From memory, a Deputy shot a man in the back for running from him while serving a misdemeanor warrant, and others too....so Hanover was a good place to be killed without a gun.

    The Federal case involving Figg Vs Hanover (Which is a crime in itself) can be seen here:

    http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-4th-circuit/1262907.html

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    Regular Member Cmdr_Haggis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    There will be a "How do we respond to a man with a gun" seminar in Hanover on the 2nd of November.
    This will be much like the one in Henrico.

    Hanover has an extremely bad reputation under Bradly and Cook. Hines is IMO a more professional Sheriff and has worked his way through the ranks.

    While Hanover was known as the dumping ground for LEO's (Wash out somewhere else and Hanover will hire you).....the quality of Deputies seems to have improved about 200% in the last few years.

    Unfortunately, there are still a few of the old thugs in the Department.

    It will be interesting to see what they have to say because it's either a NEW DEPARTMENT, or just another Surry County with a new paint job.

    One of Hanover's more famous police shootings was with Deputy Land. A drunk named Figg was stopped in his Driveway for DUI, ran, was so drunk he fell through a fence and while still on the ground aggressively crawling toward the Deputy, was shot numerous times.

    This prompted things like bumper stickers that said "Hanover County where DUI brings a death sentence".

    The Commonwealths Attorney under pressure to take it before the grand jury, Appointed a CA from up north, named Horan. Horan had a reputation for never prosecuting Cops for a shooting.
    He did the same in Hanover.

    There have been other questionable shootings in Hanover. From memory, a Deputy shot a man in the back for running from him while serving a misdemeanor warrant, and others too....so Hanover was a good place to be killed without a gun.

    The Federal case involving Figg Vs Hanover (Which is a crime in itself) can be seen here:

    http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-4th-circuit/1262907.html


    Jesus, I hope their message isn't, "We shoot. No questions. Now have a nice day, this seminar is concluded."
    As Steve Lee says, "I like guns," and have no plans to get rid of them. My kids will be taught, as I was, about gun safety.

    Life is good.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cmdr_Haggis View Post


    Jesus, I hope their message isn't, "We shoot. No questions. Now have a nice day, this seminar is concluded."
    Just like Henrico, I'm interested in what their message s and just how close to the truth it comes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    There will be a "How do we respond to a man with a gun" seminar in Hanover on the 2nd of November.
    Is there a thread somewhere with more details (location, etc...)? I can't seem to find it....
    Thx!

  5. #5
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blk97F150 View Post
    Is there a thread somewhere with more details (location, etc...)? I can't seem to find it....
    Thx!
    It was in a VCDL alert in the last few days.


    ************************************************* 1. VCDL meeting, Wed., Nov. 2 at 7:00pm in Mechanicsville -- Hanover Sheriff's Department to discuss how they handle "man with a gun" calls ************************************************* VCDL is having a membership meeting on Wednesday, November 2, in Mechanicsville. The Hanover Sheriff's department will be talking about how they handle "man with a gun" calls. The meeting will be from 7 PM to 9 PM at: PAMUNKEY REGIONAL LIBRARY MECHANICSVILLE BRANCH 7461 Sherwood Crossing Place, Mechanicsville, VA 23111 Thanks to EM Patricia Webb for making the arrangements.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    It was in a VCDL alert in the last few days.


    ************************************************* 1. VCDL meeting, Wed., Nov. 2 at 7:00pm in Mechanicsville -- Hanover Sheriff's Department to discuss how they handle "man with a gun" calls ************************************************* VCDL is having a membership meeting on Wednesday, November 2, in Mechanicsville. The Hanover Sheriff's department will be talking about how they handle "man with a gun" calls. The meeting will be from 7 PM to 9 PM at: PAMUNKEY REGIONAL LIBRARY MECHANICSVILLE BRANCH 7461 Sherwood Crossing Place, Mechanicsville, VA 23111 Thanks to EM Patricia Webb for making the arrangements.
    Appreciate the reminder -my secretary didn't write that one down for me.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Perfect. Thank you Peter. I recalled reading about it... but I had thought it was a thread here instead of email. Doh!

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    Thanks, but...,

    no thanks. Unless there's something different than the puke that Henrico regurgitated awhile back, I've been sick enough lately without having to gag on on that vomit again. I'd say a lot more, but I'm gonna leave it alone for right now.

    sidestreet

    Jeremiah 29 vs. 11-13

    we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sidestreet View Post
    no thanks. Unless there's something different than the puke that Henrico regurgitated awhile back, I've been sick enough lately without having to gag on on that vomit again. I'd say a lot more, but I'm gonna leave it alone for right now.

    sidestreet

    Jeremiah 29 vs. 11-13

    we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.
    Just more lipstick on a pig. Maybe we wil get lucky and hear the truth

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    Besides...,

    I had quite enough of "Hangover" County's "finest" blockheads and drones this Tuesday.

    sidestreet

    Jeremiah 29 vs. 11-13

    we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.

  11. #11
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sidestreet View Post
    I had quite enough of "Hangover" County's "finest" blockheads and drones this Tuesday.

    sidestreet

    Jeremiah 29 vs. 11-13

    we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.
    Were you on a search team...or something else.

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    Yes Peter...,

    and it really was something else. I'll talk to you about it later. I don't want to sound too ungrateful right now.

    sidestreet

    Jeremiah 29 vs. 11-13

    we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless, especially when we are searching for lost children.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Someone REALLY needs to video this seminar and post it on YouTube!!!

    Either way-- Pro- or Con-2A, it would be an enlightening video...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    Someone REALLY needs to video this seminar and post it on YouTube!!!

    Either way-- Pro- or Con-2A, it would be an enlightening video...
    I video most of the South of Ashland events Dreamer, and I'll video this one also. I've already filed and received a response to a related FOIA.

    I hardly ever post them on line though and NEVER on You Tube.
    I did promise Philip he could have a copy so VCDL may post it somewhere (Doubtfully on You Tube but possibly on their WIKI).

    I'll get with Grapeshot and see how he wants to handle it. If things get done in Central Va, he's usually behind it.
    Last edited by peter nap; 10-30-2011 at 06:13 AM.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    I'll be there around 6:15 to set up the cameras and audio.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    All in all, it was a very good program, which surprised me. The Deputy who gave the presentation seemed knowledgeable and Trip Chalkley, Commonwealths Attorney, came along. Trip is the first decent CA Hanover has ever had.

    I did get a good video even though I had a lot of problems before we got there.

    Is Hanover the same department it was even a few years ago, who knows, but they are at least on record now. Did they do some butt covering for this presentation....darn right, but that's something to write about some other time.

    One interesting note for you GFZ paranoids. Trip and the Sheriff's Department stated flatly, they do NOT AND CAN NOT ENFORCE FEDERAL LAW. THE GFZ is federal and not their business. I gave a specific scenario with a specific answer from them.

    The video will be given to VCDL as soon as I finish it and both Philip and Grapeshot have said they'll get it online.

    Special thanks to Patrica Webb for putting this together and Dale, Philip and Dennis (Yeah, Dennis was there as always).

    I was disappointed at the turnout. I counted 17 not counting those of us that were there as OV or VCDL. A few may have been outside but it was not a strong showing.

    There were a few of the more dedicated members in attendance. Doug was in attendance. He's a little like Dennis, always supporting quietly and from the Southside. I only saw two people that I could say for sure were from Hanover. There may have been more.

  17. #17
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    All in all a good presentation with some "practical" suggestions. Only one minor goof in referring to a CWP instead of a CHP - would like very much to have it be a CWP.

    Lively conversation about providing ID when OCing, but seems to be a sincere effort and follow through with training that OC is legal and not RAS of a crime. Good exchange and sharing of thoughts.

    Thanks Pat for putting this together and all for attending.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  18. #18
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Correction:
    It appears I've spent too much time with bears and Doug was not there last night. Sorry Doug, I'll wear my glasses more, I promise.

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