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Thread: Walker's opinion on the new DOJ rules

  1. #1
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    Walker's opinion on the new DOJ rules

    Exclusive interview with Richard Moore of the Lakeland Times. Very nice reading.
    http://www.lakelandtimes.com/main.as...rticleID=13993

  2. #2
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    Sorry Paul, I just saw you included the link in the DOJ rules thread. I would have beat you but I was at work and couldn't remember my password <g>

  3. #3
    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    Angry The Absurdity of the DOJ Rules

    Here is an example of the absurdity of the DOJ Emergency rules. (For this example, we will assume that I do not hold Concealed Firearms Permits or a Utah BCI Certification as a Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.)

    I am an NRA Certified Range Safety Officer. My NRA Credentials do not bear the printed name and signature of the NRA Training Counselor who provided the course, the date, or the time, or the location, or the length of the course. They do not also bear a statement that the course was a firearms safety course and cite the WI statute. But, clearly a "Range Safety Officer" certified by NRA as such has had substantial training in firearms safety that far exceeds that obtained by most individuals.

    I am an NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol Discipline. My NRA Credentials do not bear the signature of the NRA Training Counselor who provided the course, the date, or the time, or the location or the length of the course (Basic Instructor + Pistol Discipline). They do not also bear a statement that the course was a firearms safety course and cite the WI statute. (Also NRA Certified Instructor in Rifle and Personal Protection In The Home). Even though my very fancy Certificates from NRA bear the signature of the Secretary of the NRA, the DOJ rule is specific in that it must bear the signature of the instructor who provided me with my in-person instruction.

    Because my NRA Credentials do not meet the letter of the new DOJ Rules, I would be ineligible for a Wisconsin Concealed Weapons Permit if I moved back to Wisconsin. I would be treated just like a newbie who has never handled a handgun. So, under the DOJ rules, as an Instructor certified by a Nationally recognized organization, I can teach an NRA Basic Pistol Course (and hand write or type onto the NRA Certificate the time the course lasted and a statement that it is a Firearms Familiarity and Safety Course under WI DOJ Emergency Rule) and my student can get a WI Permit, but I cannot (assumes I move back to WI).

    The Yellow Cat is very confused by the logic used by the DOJ lawyers on this one. Any thought of moving back is dashed by this rule and I can live in UT and carry in WI on my UT permit (or FL, AZ, PA, or NV).
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
    "Permission Slips" from Utah, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida. _ Verily, thou shalt not fiddle with thine firearm whilst in the bathroom stall, lest thine spouse seek condolences from thine friends.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpm84092 View Post
    Here is an example of the absurdity of the DOJ Emergency rules. (For this example, we will assume that I do not hold Concealed Firearms Permits or a Utah BCI Certification as a Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.)

    I am an NRA Certified Range Safety Officer. My NRA Credentials do not bear the printed name and signature of the NRA Training Counselor who provided the course, the date, or the time, or the location, or the length of the course. They do not also bear a statement that the course was a firearms safety course and cite the WI statute. But, clearly a "Range Safety Officer" certified by NRA as such has had substantial training in firearms safety that far exceeds that obtained by most individuals.

    I am an NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol Discipline. My NRA Credentials do not bear the signature of the NRA Training Counselor who provided the course, the date, or the time, or the location or the length of the course (Basic Instructor + Pistol Discipline). They do not also bear a statement that the course was a firearms safety course and cite the WI statute. (Also NRA Certified Instructor in Rifle and Personal Protection In The Home). Even though my very fancy Certificates from NRA bear the signature of the Secretary of the NRA, the DOJ rule is specific in that it must bear the signature of the instructor who provided me with my in-person instruction.

    Because my NRA Credentials do not meet the letter of the new DOJ Rules, I would be ineligible for a Wisconsin Concealed Weapons Permit if I moved back to Wisconsin. I would be treated just like a newbie who has never handled a handgun. So, under the DOJ rules, as an Instructor certified by a Nationally recognized organization, I can teach an NRA Basic Pistol Course (and hand write or type onto the NRA Certificate the time the course lasted and a statement that it is a Firearms Familiarity and Safety Course under WI DOJ Emergency Rule) and my student can get a WI Permit, but I cannot (assumes I move back to WI).

    The Yellow Cat is very confused by the logic used by the DOJ lawyers on this one. Any thought of moving back is dashed by this rule and I can live in UT and carry in WI on my UT permit (or FL, AZ, PA, or NV).
    You can also use your UT permit to get a Wi permit. You could also make up a cert with all the requierments for Wi for your self and your students.

  5. #5
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    Iím in the same boat, the 100+ people I have trained are ok and ready to apply with for their C.C.W. (minus complex certificate, but that is an easy fix)

    It seems people like me are kind of S.O.L.

    BUT I have talked to some people in the loop and:

    1st "they" have assured me the emergency rules are not final yet, but they will be by Friday the 21st.
    2nd and there will be a way for certified instructors to qualify without tracking down there T.C.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLR72 View Post
    Iím in the same boat, the 100+ people I have trained are ok and ready to apply with for their C.C.W. (minus complex certificate, but that is an easy fix)

    It seems people like me are kind of S.O.L.

    BUT I have talked to some people in the loop and:

    1st "they" have assured me the emergency rules are not final yet, but they will be by Friday the 21st.
    2nd and there will be a way for certified instructors to qualify without tracking down there T.C.
    I would think that any firearms safety course that you taught along with another certified instructor, you also attended. And if they feel that you succesfully completed the course, all you have to do is fill out the certificate form and get their signature. Signing your own certificate might conflict with the rule Jus 17.03(9) against learner-led or self-directed training.

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