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Thread: McDonalds, Now Serving Justice

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    McDonalds, Now Serving Justice

    WARNING: This might be a bit graphic for some .......



    Is it wrong that I couldn't stop laughing when I read the comment stated in the title? "McDonalds, now serving justice."

    I understand that by law this man should have stopped after the threat was over, but....you jumped over the counter after attacking someone to continue attacking and you got your head caved in...you had it coming...
    Last edited by Schlitz; 10-18-2011 at 09:36 AM.

  2. #2
    Activist Member carsontech's Avatar
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    Did the black woman jump the counter too? It looks like she got hit at 0:35. Then you can see the guy whack the male, on the floor behind the counter, a few times when he falls down. It appears the "whacker" then asks the woman if she "wants some too?". Then he proceeds to whack her, again, as well.

    That's whats up.

    The white woman was screaming like it was going to do something. "Stoppp!!! STOPP IT!!!, NOOOO! NOOOOO NOO NO NOOOOO!!!! STOP!" ("Think of the CHILLDRUNNNN!") lol

    The word "no" means jack crap to someone with adrenaline running through them.
    Last edited by carsontech; 10-15-2011 at 02:51 AM.

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran Verd's Avatar
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    What the hell did the guy and woman think they were going to get by jumping the counter? "would you like fries with that?" And why was that woman screaming "STOP!" and to get the police only AFTER the two people jumped the counter? It was all good as long as someone who was working for "The Man" got his ass beat, but when he actually had the, no... dare I say it.. the nerve! *gasp* to teach the punks a lesson, was there someone screaming for him to stop.

    If I was there, I would have shook that guy's hand.

    It's like I tell my kids, "Don't start a fight, but when you are in one... end it."
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    Let's play spot the anti-.

    Oh wait, here it is:

    Quote Originally Posted by carsontech View Post
    The white woman was screaming like it was going to do something. "Stoppp!!! STOPP IT!!!, NOOOO! NOOOOO NOO NO NOOOOO!!!! STOP!" ("Think of the CHILLDRUNNNN!")
    If you invade someone's space, expect an unlimited response... Like Epic Bearded Guy....
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  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbinator View Post

    If you invade someone's space, expect an unlimited response... Like Epic Bearded Guy....
    "SHHHHHHHHHH, HE IS LEGEND"
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

  6. #6
    Regular Member phleye's Avatar
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    Here's a link to the story. I didn't read all the comments but it seems like everyone is taking the employees side and he was fired too.

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/15/justic...ss_mostpopular
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  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    A cashier at a New York fast food restaurant has been charged with felony assault for beating two unruly customers with a metal object during an argument.
    - CNN completely removes the element of self defense and says the cashier "beat down" customers during an argument AKA they hit him first, he retreated and they pursued him forcing him to defend himself. CNN, you SUCK at journalism.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

  8. #8
    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    - CNN completely removes the element of self defense and says the cashier "beat down" customers during an argument AKA they hit him first, he retreated and they pursued him forcing him to defend himself. CNN, you SUCK at journalism.
    Please do not defame the once-noble profession of journalism by accusing CNN of practicing anything remotely close to it. I get much more accurate reporting by looking (on the 'net) at some of the foreign news outlets and then comparing them to U.S. outlets. Interesting some of the facts that come out on the foreign news that you never see on U.S. news.

    I used to watch BBC when I was in Egypt and it was very interesting to compare them, CNN, and Fox.

    For the record: I believe that the cashier went a bit too far, but still acted in self-defense. Same thing we have said here many times; Once the threat has stopped, quit shooting. Once the two people attacking him were rendered incapable of further attack, he should have stopped.
    Last edited by SFCRetired; 10-15-2011 at 04:28 PM. Reason: Change of wording

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    Regular Member Morbidph8's Avatar
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    And thats what happens when you think your a badass and try to act tough. You might get your ass beaten. That one lady had no problem with the attackers but once they got F-ed up she was so upset. BTW Will people learn to hold there cell sideways when shooting video. That aspect ratio sucks.

  10. #10
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    All other things aside, I saw what might very well be considered excessive use of force by the employee.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Morbidph8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    All other things aside, I saw what might very well be considered excessive use of force by the employee.
    Yea he kept hitting them when they already where down. Oh well... The attacks got what they deserve.

  12. #12
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    I don't know what the aggressors where doing when the view of them was blocked by the counter but personally, I think the measured response by the employee was appropriate!--- ESPECIALLY, if he has witnesses stating that the offenders were attempting to continue the aggression!!!!!!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
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  13. #13
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morbidph8 View Post
    Yea he kept hitting them when they already where down. Oh well... The attacks got what they deserve.
    Totally disagree.

    Any of us may use the amount of force necessary to control the situation. More than that will potentially put at the wrong table in a court of law.

    Advocating or defending such over reaching action is IMO violating the very tenants of OCDO. If the employee had been instead a LEO, people would be all over his case. I see no difference and that is no joke.

    Notice that the employee was using a tool/weapon of some sort. Good that he stopped the attacker - bad that he continued to strike him after the threat was over.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Totally disagree.

    Any of us may use the amount of force necessary to control the situation. More than that will potentially put at the wrong table in a court of law.

    Advocating or defending such over reaching action is IMO violating the very tenants of OCDO. If the employee had been instead a LEO, people would be all over his case. I see no difference and that is no joke.

    Notice that the employee was using a tool/weapon of some sort. Good that he stopped the attacker - bad that he continued to strike him after the threat was over.
    He didn't advocate for doing illegal things. He said they got what the deserved from a moral stand point. Yes, the correct thing to do by the laws we live by would be to stop the threat and nothing more. He MAY have gone past that, so sure, in the eyes of the LAW he went over board. But Morbidph8 was saying they "got what they deserved" as in HE felt they DESERVED to get their skulls caved in.

    And I have to agree, IMO if you attack someone (ESPECIALLY in numbers greater than your victim, ESPECIALLY when you started it, ESPECIALLY when you are in the wrong) you get what you deserve if your skull gets caved in by the person acting in self-defense. Unfortunately for the victim he the law doesn't see it that way and he'll probably get convicted.

    Self defense will not be tolerated in New York, something we all know.
    Last edited by Schlitz; 10-15-2011 at 06:31 PM.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

  15. #15
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    See no need to supply quotes for the antis, much less to actually feel that any minor physical confrontation deserves potentially deadly force and then to find glee in it.

    We are widely read here and should by virtue of being reasonable people not give a negative impression of ourselves or our opinions. Control situations as we may, but control ourselves at all times.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  16. #16
    Regular Member carry for myself's Avatar
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    well i do have to say in the Mc employees defense. there was no lethal force used. the weapon he picked up was what is called a "C-rod" it is used to pull the bottom pan of the fry-a-lator if you will out to drain the grease. basically amounts to the same effect of getting whipped with a long car antenna. Painful? oh yes. like a long steel switch. Lethal? no. ............but it does look like these 2 ordered a MC *** whoopin and received one with a smile and frys :-D lol

    however i do believe it was a bit excessive. after he dropped Mr banger and his gf. he should have called it quits.
    Last edited by carry for myself; 10-15-2011 at 07:20 PM.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carry for myself View Post
    well i do have to say in the Mc employees defense. there was no lethal force used. the weapon he picked up was what is called a "C-rod" it is used to pull the bottom pan of the fry-a-lator if you will out to drain the grease. basically amounts to the same effect of getting whipped with a long car antenna. Painful? oh yes. like a long steel switch. Lethal? no. ............but it does look like these 2 ordered a MC *** whoopin and received one with a smile and frys :-D lol

    however i do believe it was a bit excessive. after he dropped Mr banger and his gf. he should have called it quits.
    Appreciate the "inside info" on the McTool - looked like a steel rod on the video.

    Have no doubt that the perps feelings have likely changed.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    All other things aside, I saw what might very well be considered excessive use of force by the employee.
    I can't hear what the attackers are saying or doing once they are behind the counter so I will reserve judgment on the excessive force.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Tony4310's Avatar
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    Someone really should of slapped that lady that was screaming STOP repeatedly. Those 2 had it coming. Granted, he should of stopped when they dropped,but oh well. They attacked first forcing him into this. I love how he was fired for protecting himself. What did McDonald's expect him to do? Get assaulted and beaten and say the customer is always right? Screw that!

  20. #20
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony4310 View Post
    Someone really should of slapped that lady that was screaming STOP repeatedly. Those 2 had it coming. Granted, he should of stopped when they dropped,but oh well. They attacked first forcing him into this. I love how he was fired for protecting himself. What did McDonald's expect him to do? Get assaulted and beaten and say the customer is always right? Screw that!
    No one should be assaulted because you don't want to hear them. Even the suggestion of such illegal acts are in violation of the spirit of OCDO rules.

    "Had it coming" - really are we judge and jury after seeing one poor quality video? That he chose to defend himself is no license to continue after the threat is over.

    Perhaps the man trying to stop him in the video is a manager. Maybe they fired him for taking this beyond simple defense......we don't know.

    While the Social Forum is for all things not related to OC or guns, the rules and general good conduct still apply. Haven't had occassion to edit much nor lock a thread in this sub-forum but there is always a first time for everything.

    We are supposed to be the purveyors of facts and level headed responses. Emotion outbursts (like some of these) reduce us beyond the desired standard. Please take heed.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Exclamation Aargh!! Stop saying "should've stopped when the threat was over!!"

    Insipid, and frankly stupid comments like that show the writer is being judgmental when they don't have all the facts!!!

    Unless your X-ray eyes can see through the counter, you have no right to say that. You have no ******* clue what the real assailants were up to behind the counter.

    Unless you know the REAL victim's physical limitations, you have no right to say that.

    Unless you have more information than anyone else reading the same thread, watching the same video, and reading the same linked articles, you are in no place to render judgment as to when the threat was "over."

    Anyone who disagrees is a flaming hypocrite if they profess to believe in a right of self-defense.

    And yes, I do know of which I speak - I've prosecuted, refused to prosecute, and defended the accused in SD situations like this, and had to go through the same points with cops, families, perpetrators, and juries until it finally sank in and they were able to see things objectively.

    I thought the crowd on this board would be a little more mentally acute, but some are proving me wrong.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCR View Post
    Insipid, and frankly stupid comments like that show the writer is being judgmental when they don't have all the facts!!!

    Unless your X-ray eyes can see through the counter, you have no right to say that. You have no ******* clue what the real assailants were up to behind the counter.

    Unless you know the REAL victim's physical limitations, you have no right to say that.

    Unless you have more information than anyone else reading the same thread, watching the same video, and reading the same linked articles, you are in no place to render judgment as to when the threat was "over."

    Anyone who disagrees is a flaming hypocrite if they profess to believe in a right of self-defense.

    And yes, I do know of which I speak - I've prosecuted, refused to prosecute, and defended the accused in SD situations like this, and had to go through the same points with cops, families, perpetrators, and juries until it finally sank in and they were able to see things objectively.

    I thought the crowd on this board would be a little more mentally acute, but some are proving me wrong.
    Gee, councilor you have a unique style.

    Several posters have said that all of the facts were not available and suggesting that excessive force can have bad repercussions is not a violation of OCDO rules and they DO have the right to say that here.

    One thing I've noticed about attorneys is that on any given day, in any court room, 50% do not deliver the winning argument.

    You may indeed be a paragon of virtue, but that gives you not the right to insult/attack others by innuendo on OCDO.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  23. #23
    Founder's Club Member Jim675's Avatar
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    Mr. G. Shot is completely correct of course. Still, I do admit to a good deal of satisfaction when I saw the first swing of the rod. I'm very glad the aggressor did not further harm any of the employees.

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    No one should be assaulted because you don't want to hear them. Even the suggestion of such illegal acts are in violation of the spirit of OCDO rules.

    "Had it coming" - really are we judge and jury after seeing one poor quality video? That he chose to defend himself is no license to continue after the threat is over.

    Perhaps the man trying to stop him in the video is a manager. Maybe they fired him for taking this beyond simple defense......we don't know.

    While the Social Forum is for all things not related to OC or guns, the rules and general good conduct still apply. Haven't had occassion to edit much nor lock a thread in this sub-forum but there is always a first time for everything.

    We are supposed to be the purveyors of facts and level headed responses. Emotion outbursts (like some of these) reduce us beyond the desired standard. Please take heed.
    Again, no one is suggesting illegal acts of violence. How are you to determine that the threat was over when he kept swinging??? How do we know that these people didn't appear to be pulling out a knife or a gun? All we see is they moved a bit more after going down and when they did the person on the defense continued to "stop" them. Perhaps he felt they were going for a gun and he couldn't out run a bullet so he had to stop them from drawing. We don't know. All we know is HE WAS ATTACKED and attempted to retreat. We know when chased after retreating he defending himself and the attackers went down. Now we watched the attackers get the raw end of the stick and we are glad that justice seemed to be served (from what we see on film). Now they're people saying STOP VIOLATING THE RULES AND SUGGESTING BREAKING THE LAW HE KEPT GOING AFTER THE THREAT WAS OVER < You don't know this, we can't see behind the counter. For all we know the lady was pulling a knife out. All we know is he was attacked and defended himself.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran Verd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    All other things aside, I saw what might very well be considered excessive use of force by the employee.
    Agreed. It might have been excessive use of force. We do not know if the moment the two punks went down if they laid there peaceably and begged forgiveness, or if they were telling him that the moment they got up his ass was dead. However, if the video it does seem like he stopped for a moment once or twice, as though threatening with more of the same if they did not stop. I can assume that they indicated more harm to his person if he stopped and that is why he continued to hit them some more, but that is just conjecture. At this time, the only things we CAN be clear about is that the woman smacked the cashier, the cashier struck back with a metal spatula in a slapping motion then walked off to get the metal rod as backup. The male and woman jumped over the counter to engage with the man physically which any reasonable person would assume, since if they only wished to yell at him and call him names they could have done that on their side of the counter. Being confronted with superior numbers, the cashier defended himself with a non-lethal weapon, striking numerous blows, stopping for a moment wherein the male perp tried to grab at the cashier and the cashier struck one or both of them some more. The cashier stopped again for a moment before resuming.

    The bolded part is where excessive force may have occured, but since we do not know what was being said behind the counter or what their demeanors were, it is conjecture until the other cashiers speak up.
    One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them. Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, 1796.
    If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun. - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).
    Find businesses that are pro gun and those that aren't. Support Friend or Foe by using it!

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