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Thread: Tresspassing? At a city event?

  1. #1
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    Tresspassing? At a city event?

    I was considering UOC at a city event coming up. The event is a street fair on a closed public road. I have a friend that works for the city and when I mentioned UOC at the event he threatened to call the cops and have me arrested (He is an event planer). I told him I would be in compliance with the law and he said "If I see you, you will be arrested for trespassing (on public property)". My question is if there is any laws that I could be violating if I showed up anyways?
    His claims were:
    +" The street is closed off to everyone except who is let in the checkpoint so if I say to leave, and you disobey, you are trespassing"
    +"I have to pull a permit and this permit gives me authority to allow alcohol to be served on the street so I can restrict people and Guns"
    + He made some other baseless ridiculous claims that I forget.

    I think That I will show up anyways, My question is, Can I be charged with some weird crime that I am not considering. (I would be in compliance with ALL gun laws, esp. unloaded, schools, etc..). AND If a city employee asks me to leave the area and I refuse, am I trespassing?

    Thank You for your thoughts

  2. #2
    Regular Member hgreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaIk2Kevin View Post
    I was considering UOC at a city event coming up. The event is a street fair on a closed public road. I have a friend that works for the city and when I mentioned UOC at the event he threatened to call the cops and have me arrested (He is an event planer). I told him I would be in compliance with the law and he said "If I see you, you will be arrested for trespassing (on public property)". My question is if there is any laws that I could be violating if I showed up anyways?
    His claims were:
    +" The street is closed off to everyone except who is let in the checkpoint so if I say to leave, and you disobey, you are trespassing"
    +"I have to pull a permit and this permit gives me authority to allow alcohol to be served on the street so I can restrict people and Guns"
    + He made some other baseless ridiculous claims that I forget.

    I think That I will show up anyways, My question is, Can I be charged with some weird crime that I am not considering. (I would be in compliance with ALL gun laws, esp. unloaded, schools, etc..). AND If a city employee asks me to leave the area and I refuse, am I trespassing?

    Thank You for your thoughts
    The answer is "it depends".

    Did they legally rent the road and land from the city so that it in effect becomes "private" property?

    Is the event free and open to the public?

    Did they and the city follow all the regulations in the Brown Act in terms of mandatory public notice of plans and hold public meetings to discuss this group renting the street?


    We went through a similar battle and won in Manhattan Beach last year and this year, read up on it here:
    http://southbayopencarry.org/2010/09/ (that's just the September page, there are articles on it possibly on the august page as well as the october page for 2010.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    If they ask you to leave from private property with public access and you refuse, they can have you arrested for trespassing.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Save Our State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gundude View Post
    If they ask you to leave from private property with public access and you refuse, they can have you arrested for trespassing.
    That doesn't mean to say that he might not be able to sue them, simply because they had the option to do so.

  5. #5
    Regular Member DCKilla's Avatar
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    What kind of friend is that?
    Last edited by DCKilla; 10-15-2011 at 02:21 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by hgreen View Post
    The answer is "it depends".

    Did they legally rent the road and land from the city so that it in effect becomes "private" property?

    Is the event free and open to the public?

    Did they and the city follow all the regulations in the Brown Act in terms of mandatory public notice of plans and hold public meetings to discuss this group renting the street?
    I read through all of the posts on Southbay's website. Were UOC members explicitly told not to show up? or did they just try to make the whole area a school zone? If I recall correctly I think I remember seeing a picture somewhere of members standing in front of the "No Weapons" sign at the event while UOC.

    The Event in question is held ON a Public road by the CITY.
    The Event is free and open to all public
    A public event in a public place.
    I doubt they did any renting, all the city is doing is shutting down a road and having booths put up for people to walk around and buy things. I am pretty confident that the business booths just file a petition to set up shop but don't have to pay anything.


    If I show up and the event coordinator demands that I leave am I trespassing? Can I just say I'm walking down the road?

    I was looking at tort law defenses and this is something I found on a law website:
    A person may exercise a lawful right of entry onto land, for example:

    � A private right of way granted to the defendant;
    � A public right of way;
    � A right given by the common law, such as the right to abate a nuisance; and
    � A right of access given by statute, such as ss16-18 PACE 1984, the Access to Neighbouring Land Act 1992 and s8 of the Party Wall Act etc. Act 1996.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DCKilla View Post
    What kind of friend is that?
    Not a very good one..... He feels entitlement that the events are HIS events but in actuality they are the city's and the public's events he's just the coordinator.

    This is the event in question:
    http://www.santa-clarita.com/Index.a...&recordid=5181

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    The Nation of Santa Clarita

    I am not a lawyer, but.... If it is public property, it is not closed to the general public, no ticket or admission charge is made, the City has not required the "event" to put up a private insurance bond,..it is still public property, and he has no more authority than declaring he can suspend the Constitution. Just closing the street to road traffic does not make it a closed event. If you were stopped by a LEO , I would have handouts for OC etc. Tell them You are then expressing your rights to protest, assemble.

    Make sure you have a running video camera on you , no ID, and preferably another friend with a video camera also that remains anonymous . Tell your city "friend" to go ahead and call LASD and have you arrested. You just might get your "friends" wish, and BE WILLING TO GO TO JAIL AND LOOSE whatever UOC firearm you have on you. You will eventually be owning a small piece of both the City and County, after your lawyer gets done with them. For me, it is not worth it. City employees sometimes think they rule everyone's lives. In reality, LASD will probably just contact you, e-check you, and tell your "friend" to go away, and their is nothing he/they can do.

    You could also contact the Santa Clarita City Manager now, and lodge a Complaint against the employee, and the way he threatened you. The City Manager would probably straighten him out. Also the City trying to post some "no Firearms Allowed"sign without a (clearly unconstitutional) City ordinance to back it up, won't work for them either, since almost all guns laws are preempted by State law. Just makle sure your are completely clear of any GFSZ.
    Last edited by oc4ever; 10-17-2011 at 12:21 AM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member hgreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaIk2Kevin View Post
    I read through all of the posts on Southbay's website. Were UOC members explicitly told not to show up? or did they just try to make the whole area a school zone? If I recall correctly I think I remember seeing a picture somewhere of members standing in front of the "No Weapons" sign at the event while UOC.

    The Event in question is held ON a Public road by the CITY.
    The Event is free and open to all public
    A public event in a public place.
    I doubt they did any renting, all the city is doing is shutting down a road and having booths put up for people to walk around and buy things. I am pretty confident that the business booths just file a petition to set up shop but don't have to pay anything.


    If I show up and the event coordinator demands that I leave am I trespassing? Can I just say I'm walking down the road?

    I was looking at tort law defenses and this is something I found on a law website:
    A person may exercise a lawful right of entry onto land, for example:

    � A private right of way granted to the defendant;
    � A public right of way;
    � A right given by the common law, such as the right to abate a nuisance; and
    � A right of access given by statute, such as ss16-18 PACE 1984, the Access to Neighbouring Land Act 1992 and s8 of the Party Wall Act etc. Act 1996.
    If it is free and open to the public and held on public property then there is no way they can get you to leave for lawful UOC.

    If you do go, bring a REAL friend or two with video/audio recorders who are not UOCing.

    You might want to get in touch with the SBOC board of directors and get help from them, they might be able to wrangle a few more folks to come up and be with you at the fair.
    info@sboc.ca

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by hgreen View Post
    If it is free and open to the public and held on public property then there is no way they can get you to leave for lawful UOC.

    If you do go, bring a REAL friend or two with video/audio recorders who are not UOCing.

    You might want to get in touch with the SBOC board of directors and get help from them, they might be able to wrangle a few more folks to come up and be with you at the fair.info@sboc.ca
    How about bail money as well as a legal defense fund?
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  11. #11
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Sounds like something you might want a large turnout for. IMHO: A public street is always public. Trespass? You have to be kidding.

  12. #12
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    Did you end up carrying?

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