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Spoke with a Convicted Fellon Saturday about OC

Dahwg

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
661
Location
Tucson, Arizona, USA
I ran into a kid at the carwash this past Saturday, I remember him and his brother from church when they were ankle-biters. Sadly both this guy and his brother ended up doing time in the state pokey (His brother is actually back in) while he has turned his life around. He recognized me and came up to start chatting- saw my sidearm and asked what I was carrying these days. Spent a few minutes talking about my firearm and he says, "you know, guys like my brother fear people like you."

I said, "armed people?"

He said, "no, armed people who don't bother covering it up."

I asked, "Why not just regular armed people?"

He said, "can't tell who is strapped and who isn't. Someone carrying concealed looks just like everyone else. See, when guys like him case a joint, they make sure that everything is in place. As soon as they see someone with a piece hangin' off their belt it messes with their rhythm. That throws them off and makes them shaky."

Then he said something that has stuck with me since, "my brother said it took him almost a week to get the picture of a guy with a gun out of his mind before he got the nerve up to go rob another store. It really freaked him out because it reminded him that there were people out there with guns that could shoot back."

I said (in my most sarcastic voice), "you can't tell me a hardened criminal is actually scared of a private citizen with a handgun."

His answer? "Thugs ain't no heroes... too lazy and it takes a lot of energy to get nerve up to go somewhere and do it. If you mess with that flow they gotta wait until they get jacked up enough to do it again. Could take a few minutes or a few days, but they won't go back to where they know somebody's packin'"

Thought provoking conversation. I just hope this kid has learned his lesson and stays out of trouble.
 

Dutch Uncle

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 11, 2006
Messages
1,715
Location
Virginia, USA
WOW!

Some sociology student out there should interview a couple dozen (or more) felons and write a paper about the effect of OC on criminal motivation. I noticed that the felon in the story didn't think, "Gee, I guess I better plan on shooting any armed guys first , then go on with my robbery". Nope. These predators are cowards, not brave men. I have had contact with many sociopaths in my life, and I can tell you they don't want "fair fights" or any shootouts at all. They want to prey on weak, scared or aged people so the odds are all in their favor. We are part of the animal kingdom, after all!
 

thebigsd

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
3,535
Location
Quarryville, PA
I seem to remember watching some documentary in which they were interviewing prison inmates. Some of them said the thing they feared most when committing crimes was an armed citizen. The interviewer said something like "Not the police?" and the inmate responded with something like "Nope, we know who they are." If I can remember the name of the documentary, I will update my post.
 

dmatting

Regular Member
Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
445
Location
Durham, NC
I seem to remember watching some documentary in which they were interviewing prison inmates. Some of them said the thing they feared most when committing crimes was an armed citizen. The interviewer said something like "Not the police?" and the inmate responded with something like "Nope, we know who they are." If I can remember the name of the documentary, I will update my post.

John Stossel had a report on guns and included this. The portion on guns starts at 5:05, he interviews inmates at 6:30 and talks about what they are afraind of at 7:15.
[video=youtube;xVK1xQoxhPI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVK1xQoxhPI[/video]
 

thebigsd

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
3,535
Location
Quarryville, PA
John Stossel had a report on guns and included this. The portion on guns starts at 5:05, he interviews inmates at 6:30 and talks about what they are afraind of at 7:15.
[video=youtube;xVK1xQoxhPI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVK1xQoxhPI[/video]

Wow! That is exactly the video I was talking about!! Thanks!
 

rushcreek2

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2010
Messages
909
Location
Colorado Springs. CO
Thank you for sharing your observations Dahwg - This post deserves a " STICKIE". The comment "Messes with their rythm" really hit it on the head.

Anyone who diligently OC's on a regular basis understands this principle - it is the KEY PRINCIPLE upon which OC'ers operate. Responsible OC makes the public square SAFER -period.

Those forum members familiar with my posts, and a handful whom I have personally met know that I push the envelope - wherever I am. I will leave it at that out of respect for forum rules. Suffice to say , I have yet to have experienced any problems with the public or LE regarding my pretty routine style of what I call "casual" OC. This is because I don't cross the "boundary". What is the "boundary"? It varies - depending upon the location, circumstances, and constituency.

What we are striving to accomplish has more to do with PUBLIC PERCEPTION than SPECIFIC JURISDICTIONAL legal technicalities.

Some jurisdictions are understandably simply not in play.
 
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Morbidph8

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Messages
98
Location
Apache Junction, AZ
John Stossel's the man. That vid was great. The OP story is even better. I have read a couple of CC VS OC threads on other forums. Why do the CC carry crowed think they will be attacked by trained mercs? That the BG will always go for the OC first? 99% of the BG are thugs. They have most likely never shot the gun they have, or know how to use it. I have never have done a crime. I can imagine what you would go through your mind, in order to psych yourself up for a crime. Just like the OP story BG don't care about jail or the cops. They care about armed people that will cap em if they try to commit a crime. Wish there was a like button for the OP. :D
 

MilProGuy

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2011
Messages
1,210
Location
Mississippi
Dahwg's excellent post!

Dahwg:

Thank you for sharing your encounter with us.

That was a very interesting and thought-provoking dialogue that you had with the young man.

The things the guy shared with you that his brother had said were especially relevent to the cause of open carry.
 

Dahwg

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
661
Location
Tucson, Arizona, USA
Keep in mind this conversation is with a guy who was and his brother who is a common street thug. I would venture to say that things are a bit different with a hardened repeat offender because you then have to add desperation, brazenness and ego to the list. It depends how badly they want to do the crime, and how badly they want to do it NOW. I am willing to guess that those hardened types would be willing to wait for the OC guy to leave before doing the crime. That's just conjecture of course, could be that the hardened guy has to go through that same psychological regimen to get ready for a job that the thug does.
 

DocWalker

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
1,922
Location
Mountain Home, Idaho, USA
This is what criminals think of when picking a victim. I used to work as a Corrections Officer at a State Maximum Security Prison. I have had several discussions with the offenders about this subject and they are all the same; "If I knew he was armed or could see he was armed I would have went after someone else".

One offender that was in prison on a sentence after mugging a 70 year old man in Idaho, turns out the 70 year old Idaho resident was armed and that is how the offender got caught. He was a repeat felon from Oakland California and said as soon as he got out of prison in Idaho he is heading back to California were he knows people are unarmed and can't defend themselves.

California making it easier on criminals since the gold rush days.......
 

jmelvin

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
2,195
Location
Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
While still living in the metro Phoenix area I was outside in my apartment complex parking lot, when I noticed one of my neighbors trying to get into his truck in which he'd locked his keys. After we tried for a while to penetrate his truck he decided to look for a wire coat hanger, but neither of us had one. One of the nearby apartments had a bunch of people partying out on the patio so I walked over and asked if anyone there had a coat hanger so we could get in this guy's truck. Fortunately one of the partiers said that was his specialty having just got out of prison again for car theft. Within a minute or so he was easily in the truck and retrieved the guy's keys. As we stood around chatting about how easy it was to get into certain cars I think I pointed at mine and he just stopped and said "man I don't mess around with that car." When I asked him why his response was he knew the guy was a cop or something that always carried a gun (I OCed quite frequently). I laughed and told him it was my car, but I'm no cop. At that point I found it quite funny that even the local thugs knew better than to target the car of a gun carrier. Unlike other cars in that lot, my car never was bothered. :)
 
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SFCRetired

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
1,764
Location
Montgomery, Alabama, USA
As a guess, I would rank the threats from others while you are OCing in this order:

1. Mentally unbalanced and off meds.
2. High on drugs, especially PSP.
3. Any member of the Brady Bunch (be careful of this group as they have been known to have a strain of rabies)
4. Garden variety hoplophobe (funny how they'are "afraid" of guns, but won't hesitate to get in the face of an armed man or woman).
5. Gang-banger wanna-be.
6. Career criminal.

You may add threats and re-arrange the threat hierarchy to suit your area. Of the first two, the mentally unbalanced are a greater concern and threat for the very simple reason that their actions are totally unpredictable.

While this list is just a tad tongue-in-cheek, I do believe it has an element of truth to it. What say you?
 

okiebryan

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2011
Messages
447
Location
Director, Oklahoma Open Carry Association
As a guess, I would rank the threats from others while you are OCing in this order:

1. Mentally unbalanced and off meds.
2. High on drugs, especially PSP.
3. Any member of the Brady Bunch Mentally unbalanced and off meds.(be careful of this group as they have been known to have a strain of rabies)
4. Garden variety hoplophobe Mentally unbalanced and off meds.(funny how they'are "afraid" of guns, but won't hesitate to get in the face of an armed man or woman).
5. Gang-banger wanna-be.
6. Career criminal.

You may add threats and re-arrange the threat hierarchy to suit your area. Of the first two, the mentally unbalanced are a greater concern and threat for the very simple reason that their actions are totally unpredictable.

While this list is just a tad tongue-in-cheek, I do believe it has an element of truth to it. What say you?

There, I fixed it.
 

Daylen

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
2,223
Location
America
Its the same answer to the question: why can knowledgeable divers armed with only a short stick get in the water with a 25ft great white? Because the Great White doesn't want to get hurt or die from trying to get a meal if he did so on a normal basis he would die soon; and of course the shark doesn't know the diver is defenseless.
 

Fisherman

Regular Member
Joined
May 15, 2010
Messages
160
Location
45R
As a guess, I would rank the threats from others while you are OCing in this order:

1. Mentally unbalanced and off meds.
2. High on drugs, especially PCP.
3. Any member of the Brady Bunch Mentally unbalanced and off meds.(be careful of this group as they have been known to have a strain of rabies)
4. Garden variety hoplophobe Mentally unbalanced and off meds.(funny how they'are "afraid" of guns, but won't hesitate to get in the face of an armed man or woman).
5. Gang-banger wanna-be.
6. Career criminal.

You may add threats and re-arrange the threat hierarchy to suit your area. Of the first two, the mentally unbalanced are a greater concern and threat for the very simple reason that their actions are totally unpredictable.

While this list is just a tad tongue-in-cheek, I do believe it has an element of truth to it. What say you?

There, I fixed it.

Fixed it more. "PSP" LOL Maybe he did a little too much LDS. LOL
 

carry for myself

Regular Member
Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
544
Location
Maine
Great post! runs right along with basic criminology. the Risk vs. Gain argument. Criminals truly are lazy. but they are most of the time not stupid. if they see an unarmed citizen. its easy pickings. big payout, little risk. but the second they see a large risk, with an unknown payout. it really does play a psychological game on them.

think of it like this. your wife drops her wedding band in the garbage disposal. your first thought is "oh ill reach in and get it" then it clicks "wait........i could lose my hand, that thing could turn on" you hesitate and usually end up disconnecting the power, removing the disposal and getting the ring. The same thing happens to criminals when they see a gun, a cop, a security officer. anyone who is armed. immediately they think "oh ill just go get this money" then it clicks and they say "well odds are this is not worth it" and they back out. only CRAZY criminals dont care. sadly there are a lot of them. and they just dont care. some have been shot before, some feel that getting shot bumps up their "street credit" , heck 50 cent brags about being shot multiple times , and now usually wears a vest. we dont.

so while it does play a very large role in how they act, react or do not act apon a situation, there is always a chance that it wont matter to them. those are the criminals we need to watch out for. those are the dangerous ones. the stupid ones. the smart ones will usually figure their own way out of creating a situation where they will end up on a slab in the county medical examiners office. the stupid ones.........wont care.
 
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