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Thread: A First and a Question

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    A First and a Question

    Just getting around to posting this.

    My lovely bride and I were at the Wal Mart on Atlanta Highway and for the first time, I saw another open carrier. Nice young fellow who immediately noticed that I was carrying and commented favorably. Regrettably, I erased my audio recording and cannot recall his name. If you're reading this, I want you to know that you impressed both my wife and myself with your courtesy.

    Question: While my bride is in ESL classes, I walk around downtown Montgomery, looking at the sights. Is there any place in the capitol area that is specifically off-limits to armed individuals? I know I should be alright on a public sidewalk, but I'm wondering if there are areas I should avoid.

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    If you find out, let us know... someone probably has their wires crossed and doesn't know better.

    Theoretically speaking, there should be nowhere downtown in Montgomery where you can't carry, unless you manage to find something that's privately owned (or *rolls eyes* the post office).
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

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    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFCRetired View Post
    Just getting around to posting this.

    My lovely bride and I were at the Wal Mart on Atlanta Highway and for the first time, I saw another open carrier. Nice young fellow who immediately noticed that I was carrying and commented favorably. Regrettably, I erased my audio recording and cannot recall his name. If you're reading this, I want you to know that you impressed both my wife and myself with your courtesy.

    Thanks for sharing your encouraging encounter with another OCer.

    I enjoy reading accounts like yours.
    Proud Veteran ~ U.S. Army / Army Reserve

    Mississippi State Guard ~ Honorably Retired


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    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFCRetired View Post
    Is there any place in the capitol area that is specifically off-limits to armed individuals?
    Might want to stay 1000' away from any demonstrations that are taking place.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfish View Post
    Might want to stay 1000' away from any demonstrations that are taking place.
    Other than it's probably generally good advice along the lines of "don't go stupid places with stupid people and do stupid things" why do you say that? Is there some law you have not cited that controls the issue?

    stay safe.
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    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Other than it's probably generally good advice along the lines of "don't go stupid places with stupid people and do stupid things" why do you say that? Is there some law you have not cited that controls the issue?

    stay safe.
    Yes, there is. Code of Alabama, 13a-11-59 forbids carry of a firearm within 1000' of a public demonstration. Applicable portion:

    (c) It shall be unlawful for any person, other than a law enforcement officer as defined in subsection (a) of this section, to have in his or her possession or about his or her person or in any vehicle at a point within 1,000 feet of a demonstration at a public place, any firearm after having first been advised by a law enforcement officer that a demonstration was taking place at a public place and after having been ordered by such officer to remove himself or herself from the prescribed area until such time as he or she no longer was in possession of any firearm. This subsection shall not apply to any person in possession of or having on his or her person any firearm within a private dwelling or other private building or structure.

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    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Other than it's probably generally good advice along the lines of "don't go stupid places with stupid people and do stupid things" why do you say that? Is there some law you have not cited that controls the issue?

    stay safe.
    It is the only statutory place off limits in Alabama...

    http://www.legislature.state.al.us/c.../13A-11-59.htm
    (b) It shall be unlawful for any person, other than a law enforcement officer, to have in his or her possession or on his or her person or in any vehicle any firearm while participating in or attending any demonstration being held at a public place.

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    This is an interesting law, and once again shows how poorly constructed Alabama laws are as they relate to firearms.

    b) It shall be unlawful for any person, other than a law enforcement officer, to have in his or her possession or on his or her person or in any vehicle any firearm while participating in or attending any demonstration being held at a public place.

    Am I to read this that as long as I am not participating or there for the purposes of attending
    That I may carry? Of course we all know the law will be enforced for intention of the statute not for what it really says.

    Lets say that there is a protest in front of City Hall, and I am going to eat lunch at the diner across the street but the location of the diner is within 1000 feet of the demonstration, my interpretation of this statute is that I am "good to go" since I will not be participating or attending the demonstration.

    (c) It shall be unlawful for any person, other than a law enforcement officer as defined in subsection (a) of this section, to have in his or her possession or about his or her person or in any vehicle at a point within 1,000 feet of a demonstration at a public place, any firearm after having first been advised by a law enforcement officer that a demonstration was taking place at a public place and after having been ordered by such officer to remove himself or herself from the prescribed area until such time as he or she no longer was in possession of any firearm. This subsection shall not apply to any person in possession of or having on his or her person any firearm within a private dwelling or other private building or structure.

    So I can be armed provided that I am not personally informed there is a "Demonstration" is in progress by an LEO, and then the LEO must also order me to leave the area?. Seems to me that absent officers at every street corner telling anyone who enters that a demonstration is in progress this law has no real meaning either.

    I also note that there is no statutory requirement for police officers to assume a perimeter around a demonstration and to post notificaitons or to make announcements of the fact that a demonstration is in progress.

    Even if I view this from a utterly and overtly biased public safety standpoint, I have a hard time with it. We all know that there were in fact two armed individuals at the AZ shooting of REP. Gillfords besides Jared Loughner, and they played a role in that event, which reflected well on the judgment of CCW permit holders in clearly what was the embodiment of a "shoot don't Shoot" situation. They seemed to me to be well prepared for the situation, responded appropriately, and showed great restraint under tremendous stress, and excellent judgment in their reactions,,,IMHO. And as I recall only one of these persons was at the location of this shooting for the purpose to "attend or participate", the other just happened to be there.

    I would also point out that not one person who was killed or injured by Loughner was also armed and able to defend themsleves.

    Can anyone cite for me a case where a CCW permit holder has committed an unlawful assault or a homicide with a weapon at a public demonstration?





    [/QUOTE]


    Quote Originally Posted by SFCRetired View Post
    Yes, there is. Code of Alabama, 13a-11-59 forbids carry of a firearm within 1000' of a public demonstration. Applicable portion:

    (c) It shall be unlawful for any person, other than a law enforcement officer as defined in subsection (a) of this section, to have in his or her possession or about his or her person or in any vehicle at a point within 1,000 feet of a demonstration at a public place, any firearm after having first been advised by a law enforcement officer that a demonstration was taking place at a public place and after having been ordered by such officer to remove himself or herself from the prescribed area until such time as he or she no longer was in possession of any firearm. This subsection shall not apply to any person in possession of or having on his or her person any firearm within a private dwelling or other private building or structure.

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    That law was written in response to The Black Panthers, and their militant approach (rightfully earned when Connor let fly the dogs of war).
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

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    Post office...... Problems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbinator View Post
    If you find out, let us know... someone probably has their wires crossed and doesn't know better.

    Theoretically speaking, there should be nowhere downtown in Montgomery where you can't carry, unless you manage to find something that's privately owned (or *rolls eyes* the post office).
    I am from Alexander City and have oc/cc for 20 years and have been in our local post office dozens of times to mail packages, purchase stamps, ect. and have never been asked to leave or ever said anything about me open carry... Has anyone had any different responses in Alabama?
    Last edited by Andrew Salinas; 09-30-2012 at 07:28 PM.

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    Newbie Deacon Blues's Avatar
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    The Post Office is Federal property. Don't feel bad, even a lot of police don't know this. According to Federal law, it's off-limits. There is a small controversy on this, thanks to the portion that I have bolded.


    US Code, Title 39 CFR 232.1
    (l) Weapons and explosives . Notwithstanding the provisions of any other law, rule or regulation, no person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.

    (p) Penalties and other law. (1) Alleged violations of these rules and regulations are heard, and the penalties prescribed herein are imposed, either in a Federal district court or by a Federal magistrate in accordance with applicable court rules. Questions regarding such rules should be directed to the regional counsel for the region involved.
    (2) Whoever shall be found guilty of violating the rules and regulations in this section while on property under the charge and control of the Postal Service is subject to fine of not more than $50 or imprisonment of not more than 30 days, or both. Nothing contained in these rules and regulations shall be construed to abrogate any other Federal laws or regulations of any State and local laws and regulations applicable to any area in which the property is situated.

    q) Enforcement. (1) Members of the U.S. Postal Service security force shall exercise the powers provided by 18 U.S.C. 3061(c)(2) and shall be responsible for enforcing the regulations in this section in a manner that will protect Postal Service property and persons thereon"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Salinas View Post
    I am from Alexander City and have oc/cc for 20 years and have been in our local post office dozens of times to mail packages, purchase stamps, ect. and have never been asked to leave or ever said anything about me open carry... Has anyone had any different responses in Alabama?
    It's good to see that you are not in federal prison. However, if you continue to carry in post offices, that is a real possibility. Don't even drive onto their property with a gun in the car!

    Yeah, I know. It's a violation of the RKBA, but the illegality of PO carry is reality.

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    Yeah, what he said... You might win the case, but pigs will fly first. It would be a landmark case, and that means expensive.
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbinator View Post
    Yeah, what he said... You might win the case, but pigs will fly first. It would be a landmark case, and that means expensive.
    I think ALL gov't buildings should allow carry .. the gov't would treat us all better. Worried about judges? eh, don't - there is always some lawyer-judge-wanna-be just waiting to take his place.

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