• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Henderson Library

The Big Guy

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,966
Location
Waco, TX
BTW, I also posted this in the "how did it go?" sticky.

So I ran out of books and went to the Paseo Verde Library (Henderson) today. I went in, walked right past the “no drugs, alcohol, or weapons” sign which pursuant to NRS 202.3673 prohibited me from carrying a concealed weapon. Good thing I was open carrying!
Now I’ve done it before without incident, but this time, as I was looking at all the new books (due back in 3 weeks, rather than the 1 my hometown library used to allow; good on you Henderson!), I was approached by an employee/volunteer who politely told me the following:
He stated, to the effect that: “Sir, this is a public building. We have signs that prohibit weapons in the building.”
I politely responded that actually, the law only prohibits concealed weapons in public buildings.
“But this is a public building.”
I should have said: So what?
I kept up the line that I was doing nothing wrong by open carrying and that the law again, prohibited concealed weapons. I tried to give him one of my info cards, but he threw his hand up like he was done with me and walked off. He approached the librarian (I assume) and tattled on me. I finished looking at the new books and walked off.
Nobody did anything.
I made my selection and checked out without further incident. No patrons got upset or alarmed, no kids panicked. No staff members eyed me suspiciously (other than that guy) and the police didn’t arrive. I didn’t commit any acts of violence and my gun stayed in its holster in plain sight where it belonged.
What offended me was this guy was so quick to jump on me (kudos for being observant, at least), but equally quick to dismiss me when I protested. If he knew better, then why not try to reason and educate me? I was being polite and informative (in our very brief exchange), not angry, abusive, or anything other than cool and respectful. He was the one who became undignified and walked away. He did not want to engage in an exchange of ideas.
I will give credit to the librarian in charge for not calling the police on my (just across the parking lot) or accosting me further. I have sent an email to various library officials and the city (a copy for you). I intend to go back and exercise my right to open carry while at the library next time I need reading material.

-Letter-

To whom it may concern:

This letter is concerning the erroneous information that a library employee/volunteer may have regarding the carrying of firearms while in a public building. Today, while I was visiting the Paseo Verde library, a male employee/volunteer (approximately late 30s to early 40s, medium height, stocky build with dark hair) approached me and informed me that the handgun I was openly carrying on a holster on my belt was prohibited in a public building. This is incorrect.
Nevada law only prohibits the concealed carry of firearms in public buildings where there is a metal detector or a ‘no weapons’ sign present at each public entrance. Openly carrying weapons as I was is not prohibited by law. Nevada state law also prohibits local authorities from making their own laws or regulations regarding carrying firearms (known as preemption). I violated no law by openly carrying a firearm in the library.
The reason I carried a firearm into the library is for my own personal safety. One never knows when one might encounter a criminal or a deranged person bent on violent mayhem. I have no desire whatsoever to violate the law, only to protect myself in the same manner that I bring my cell phone (a lifeline to 911) with me wherever I go and keep fire extinguishers and smoke detectors in my home.
I consider today’s interaction a small affair. No one was alarmed, outraged, or seemed to notice or care, aside from this one ill-informed employee/volunteer. In fact, every other interaction I’ve had regarding me openly carrying a firearm has been positive and supportive.
What galled me most was the unwillingness of this employee/volunteer to listen to me. He stated (politely of course): “Sir, this is a public building and we have signs prohibiting weapons in the building.”
I politely responded that state law only prohibited concealed weapons and that I was not violating any law. I offered to discuss this further with him and wanted to offer him a business card for an informative website regarding Nevada firearms carry laws, but he declined and walked away, seemingly upset. I am most offended because he made no attempt to engage in discourse with me or showed any desire to educate himself on the subject. Small-mindedness in a library of the 21st Century shocked me. I finished making my selection, checked out, and left without further incident. There was no shock, horror, or alarm that I could detect from the other patrons.
While I have carried my handgun openly in this library before without incident, and I do not believe this to be a systemic attempt at violating Nevada’s rights within the Henderson library system, I was bothered by this incident and would like to call attention to the fact that openly carrying a weapon in the library is perfectly legal.
I invite you and your staff to read the relevant statutes and to browse my informative website, www.nevadacarry.org.
I do request that perhaps an email be sent to all library employees/volunteers informing them of the legality of openly carrying a firearm inside the library. Also, the sign at the door should be modified to state “no concealed weapons” as that is the only lawful prohibition.

Thank you for your kind attention to this matter,

NRS 202.3673  Permittee authorized to carry concealed firearm while on premises of public building; exceptions; penalty. http://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-2...#NRS202Sec3673
NRS 244.364  Limited authority to regulate firearms; http://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-2...l#NRS244Sec364


Good job.

TBG
 

garand_guy

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
493
Location
Nevada
Still no reply, I doubt I'll get one. What should I do next? Follow-up email, or just wait until I get around to going on a weekend when I'm OCing?

I'm on the fence about calling out their ignorance of my email. I know for sure I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing and preaching to anyone who'll listen.

It kinda frosts me that public service can just blow people off like this, especially in a district with no real oversight. Nevada needs to get it together and make public entities more responsible to the public.
 

bigguyswife

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2012
Messages
67
Location
Henderson
Just FYI, the Henderson libraries are closed on Mondays. You should probably allow 7 to 10 business days for a reply. Then if you need to follow up with a hard letter and a print out of your email. I personally would like to see OC be allowed in the public libraries. This is something the Big Guy and I have discussed at length.

Just my .02 cents.

Stephanie
bigguyswife
 

Ron_O

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2014
Messages
109
Location
Las Vegas
Just FYI, the Henderson libraries are closed on Mondays. You should probably allow 7 to 10 business days for a reply. Then if you need to follow up with a hard letter and a print out of your email. I personally would like to see OC be allowed in the public libraries. This is something the Big Guy and I have discussed at length.

Just my .02 cents.

Stephanie
bigguyswife

My feeling is that if we leave it up to those in charge then firearms will NEVER be allowed. I believe in attacking all of this through the board meetings of the particular entities in question. I'd like to organize a presentation or presentations with several of the groups in question, perhaps even have a workshop(s) with them. We could assemble a blanket presentation and take it from entity to entity.

I'll start a thread on the topic and see where we can go with it. I've been studying this issue for a while and am working on developing a film project geared toward informing the average joe about 2nd Amendment issues.

On this thread in particular, again I applaud The Big Guy for his efforts and levity in dealing with things. Might I suggest that you pull your phone out and start recording these incidents? It's my hipshot belief that if the library board is appointed by the County/City then it's accountable as such and subject to the same codes applicable to the County. It's certainly not a federal agency so it has to fall under state guidelines. The state is not capable of forming a federal entity.

I agree with those who state that you have a presumption of innocence until they prove otherwise. They're clearly a public agency and can't play both sides of the coin as it suits their best interests. I'd prefer to go to the source and put them on the spot so we can remove any façade of deniability.

I'll add that I just don't understand how public agencies think that they can deny our Constitutional rights while we're on public property. Why not deny us on streets and sidewalks as well? This 'eating an elephant by a thousand bites' approach to nipping things in the bud will only serve to deny rights to all too many until things trickle up through the courts as the years progress.
 
Last edited:

garand_guy

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
493
Location
Nevada
I think I may invest in a cheap body cam. But I don't want to engage in political theater and go looking for trouble. If I'm out and about, I'm carrying. I'll OC into the library as per my normal routine.

Undefined local entity or not, HDPL was organized under the auspices of the city and it's board is appointed by the county. It's a public building, and no law prohibits carry. If they want to enforce their regulations under the vague library rules code, then I'll get around to sueing them and let the court decide. I think it's pretty clear that by defining county, city, and town (the major municipal entities in Nevada) that the legislature intended to prohibit a patchwork of rules.

I don't think there is an issue of it being allowed, it's just about not being harassed and having to deal with the police, security, or a busybody librarian. So for me, I'll go in and do my businesses. I'm not going to play Chipotle ninja or make a scene; I'm doing nothing wrong. If they want to blow whistles and have a problem, that's on them. Like most of us know, 99% of the time people don't notice, and usually when they do, they don't care or are supportive. I think this is just a reaction from people who don't know better. If you don't want it in the library for your irrational reasons, then get the state to change the law.

Public means public. Stop infringing on my rights.
 

garand_guy

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
493
Location
Nevada
Went to the Paseo Verde library today, open carrying as per my normal 'off-day' routine, no issues whatsoever. Not even a look. Had my little lapel camera ready too.

Good day.
 

Rusty Young Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
1,548
Location
Árida Zona
Went to the Paseo Verde library today, open carrying as per my normal 'off-day' routine, no issues whatsoever. Not even a look. Had my little lapel camera ready too.

Good day.

Just out of curiosity, did you ever get a reply to your email? Seems like most library staff (to cover employees and volunteers) is informed, so the guy you encountered just may be the exception.

I tip my cap to you Nevadans, who put so much time towards causing all sorts of trouble for the statists in your area.:p
 

garand_guy

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
493
Location
Nevada
Just out of curiosity, did you ever get a reply to your email? Seems like most library staff (to cover employees and volunteers) is informed, so the guy you encountered just may be the exception.

I tip my cap to you Nevadans, who put so much time towards causing all sorts of trouble for the statists in your area.:p

Thank you and no, I did not get a reply. I'll take that as a sign OC is a non-issue. God bless Henderson!
 
Top