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Thread: not happy with our CCW class...

  1. #1
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    not happy with our CCW class...

    UPDATE: We received our updated certificates without any extra fee or charge, and in time for applying NOV 1st.

    My wife and I less than a month ago took a CCW course that was 6 hours long, and was listed as usable for the WI permit, and also was for the Utah permit. However the problem we are running into is that if Utah doesn't process our applications until after November 1st, they will not give us a permit due to the change to Utah's CCW laws. (this is what I was told when I called the Utah Bureau)

    So I reached out to our instructor about getting an updated certificate, and they basically sent out a mass email that first says the rules for what is needed is not yet finalized. (yes, it is) It goes on to say that if we do not have our Utah permit and we need an updated affidavit/certificate/whatever, we'll need to pay a fee to get this information, though they can't give us a cost yet because they need to "wait for the DOJ requirements". They also give another option of taking the same class (again) at a reduced rate in which they would provide new certificates that have the correct info.


    So yea... I'm pissed. We spent over $200 for my wife and I to take this course assuming we would get everything we needed to apply for WI. And in fact, we did get training that meets all of the requirements. But it's the certificate and info needed on it that is coming up short, and now we're basically being told we have to pay more money to get an updated certificate (if it was $10 fine, but they are saying it'll be 3 times that at least), but even then they aren't even offering that yet because they are "waiting for information on DOJ rules and finalization"?



    BLAH /rant
    Last edited by bmwguy11; 10-27-2011 at 03:11 PM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    If you are comfortable with sharing their name, it might prevent others from having to go through this... Or if they are going to modify future permits, at least anyone who has already taken the class and is not aware of the "additional" fee's, will have a "heads up"...

    Just Sayin

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  3. #3
    McX
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmwguy11 View Post
    My wife and I less than a month ago took a CCW course that was 6 hours long, and was listed as usable for the WI permit, and also was for the Utah permit. However the problem we are running into is that if Utah doesn't process our applications until after November 1st, they will not give us a permit due to the change to Utah's CCW laws. (this is what I was told when I called the Utah Bureau)

    So I reached out to our instructor about getting an updated certificate, and they basically sent out a mass email that first says the rules for what is needed is not yet finalized. (yes, it is) It goes on to say that if we do not have our Utah permit and we need an updated affidavit/certificate/whatever, we'll need to pay a fee to get this information, though they can't give us a cost yet because they need to "wait for the DOJ requirements". They also give another option of taking the same class (again) at a reduced rate in which they would provide new certificates that have the correct info.


    So yea... I'm pissed. We spent over $200 for my wife and I to take this course assuming we would get everything we needed to apply for WI. And in fact, we did get training that meets all of the requirements. But it's the certificate and info needed on it that is coming up short, and now we're basically being told we have to pay more money to get an updated certificate (if it was $10 fine, but they are saying it'll be 3 times that at least), but even then they aren't even offering that yet because they are "waiting for information on DOJ rules and finalization"?



    BLAH /rant
    Shoulda held out for the WisconsinCarry FREE class; butt sees clearly (hindsight is 20/20). Shuffle on over here, and grab the free class when it comes to town.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    I am thinking any free classes from WCI will be a ways out in the future as they are still in negotiations with the DOJ to be able to "certify" instructors as well as looking for volunteers

    Also, I checked with those that give the classes that I spoke highly of (a couple of months ago) and was told that they are already on top of the issue by sending everyone who took there class an e-mail (should go out tomorrow) with a confirmation letter that should meet the DOJ rule. I was told that the person will have to write in the city they took the class in on the certificate and that was abouit it....

    I asked my original questins as to which classes the OP was refering to partly for reasons given and out of curiosity of it happened to be the organization I spoke highly of. Based on the original costs mentioned in the OP I was pretty sure it was not the same organization but just wanted to 100% sure...

    Outdoorsman1
    Last edited by Outdoorsman1; 10-18-2011 at 12:44 PM.
    "On the Plains of Hesitation bleach the bones of countless millions who, at the Dawn of Victory, sat down to wait - and waiting, died."

    George Cecil (18911970) American advertising copywriter

    Outdoorsman1
    Member: Wisconsin Carry Inc.
    Member: Silver Lake Sportsmans Club
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    Utah State Permit Holder.
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  5. #5
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmwguy11 View Post
    My wife and I less than a month ago took a CCW course that was 6 hours long, and was listed as usable for the WI permit, and also was for the Utah permit. However the problem we are running into is that if Utah doesn't process our applications until after November 1st, they will not give us a permit due to the change to Utah's CCW laws. (this is what I was told when I called the Utah Bureau)
    According to our instructor, who is participating member here, you just need to get your Utah application IN before Nov. 1, not processed.


    And your CC instructors are total, unabashed ****** who should be publicly outed. However there is nothing in the "emergency rules" that stipulate who puts the updated info on the certs. Do it yourself. Just don't use crayon or something obvious.
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 10-18-2011 at 12:45 PM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmwguy11 View Post
    My wife and I less than a month ago took a CCW course that was 6 hours long, and was listed as usable for the WI permit, and also was for the Utah permit. However the problem we are running into is that if Utah doesn't process our applications until after November 1st, they will not give us a permit due to the change to Utah's CCW laws. (this is what I was told when I called the Utah Bureau)

    So I reached out to our instructor about getting an updated certificate, and they basically sent out a mass email that first says the rules for what is needed is not yet finalized. (yes, it is) It goes on to say that if we do not have our Utah permit and we need an updated affidavit/certificate/whatever, we'll need to pay a fee to get this information, though they can't give us a cost yet because they need to "wait for the DOJ requirements". They also give another option of taking the same class (again) at a reduced rate in which they would provide new certificates that have the correct info.


    So yea... I'm pissed. We spent over $200 for my wife and I to take this course assuming we would get everything we needed to apply for WI. And in fact, we did get training that meets all of the requirements. But it's the certificate and info needed on it that is coming up short, and now we're basically being told we have to pay more money to get an updated certificate (if it was $10 fine, but they are saying it'll be 3 times that at least), but even then they aren't even offering that yet because they are "waiting for information on DOJ rules and finalization"?



    BLAH /rant
    Let me guess, Bender? There are some words I'd like describe him, but those words would get me banned.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    According to our instructor, who is participating member here, you just need to get your Utah application IN before Nov. 1, not processed.
    When I called the Utah number on the bottom of my Utah application, they said that if it is not processed by November 1st when WI ccw permit law goes into effect, it will not be processed until I receive a WI permit. Even so, I wanted to apply for permits right away, not wait the 60 days or whatever it is for Utah to get us our permits.

    And your CC instructors are total, unabashed ****** who should be publicly outed. However there is nothing in the "emergency rules" that stipulate who puts the updated info on the certs. Do it yourself. Just don't use crayon or something obvious.
    I thought of putting that in myself, except there is one problem. This is needed from my instructor:

    *A signed statement by the instructor who taught the firearms safety or
    training course to the applicant affirming that the course satisfied
    the definition of a firearms safety or training course in s. Jus
    17.03(8) and that the applicant successfully completed the course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Let me guess, Bender? There are some words I'd like describe him, but those words would get me banned.
    You would be correct in your guess.


    At this point it sounds like I have 2 options, since they aren't even offering updated certificates or the signed statements, etc, yet because of "waiting for DOJ rules/finalization" (?). Me and my wife can try to find a cheap 4 hour course elsewhere, or we can sit and wait for probably 2 months til we get our Utah permits. I would rather not wait for the latter. :/
    Last edited by bmwguy11; 10-18-2011 at 01:02 PM.

  9. #9
    McX
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    You may want to check with the yellow cat, i think JPM said, even if we dont get the Utah permit, but took the class, the paper from his class, with his certification is good enough to meet the training requirement(s).

  10. #10
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmwguy11 View Post
    When I called the Utah number on the bottom of my Utah application...
    I don't think the Utah law goes into effect till then (November as well). So if you get it in before the Utah law goes into effect you are golden.


    I thought of putting that in myself, except there is one problem. This is needed from my instructor:

    *A signed statement by the instructor who taught the firearms safety or
    training course to the applicant affirming that the course satisfied
    the definition of a firearms safety or training course in s. Jus
    17.03(8) and that the applicant successfully completed the course.
    I believe the "signed statement" is the actual certification document.


    Your instructor is a liar.
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 10-18-2011 at 01:05 PM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
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    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    I don't think the Utah law goes into effect till then (November as well). So if you get it in before the Utah law goes into effect you are golden.



    I believe the "signed statement" is the actual certification document.


    Your instructor is a liar.
    Oh I see what you mean. So it doesn't need the actual verbiage stating "affirming that the course satisfied
    the definition of a firearms safety or training course in s. Jus
    17.03(8)"?

    My certificate says "PPA awards this training certificate to (my name here) for successful completion of comprehensive carry training" and it has the instructors signature and date. So I just need to fill in the other stuff like 6 hour course, in brookfield, wi, etc?
    Last edited by bmwguy11; 10-18-2011 at 01:10 PM.

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    Regular Member markush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmwguy11 View Post
    So I just need to fill in the other stuff like 6 hour course, in brookfield, wi, etc?
    I'm in a similar situation..have a cert without the newly required info...and I don't know about anybody else but I surely am not going to hand write in additional information and expect it to be accepted...

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    +1000

    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    According to our instructor, who is participating member here, you just need to get your Utah application IN before Nov. 1, not processed.


    And your CC instructors are total, unabashed ****** who should be publicly outed. However there is nothing in the "emergency rules" that stipulate who puts the updated info on the certs. Do it yourself. Just don't use crayon or something obvious.
    Yes, let all know who they are. I took the Utah Class with Yellow Cat and mailed my application on Sept 07, 2011 and as long as the application is in the system prior to 01 Nov 2011 it is good to go.
    Last edited by Packfanatic; 10-18-2011 at 01:39 PM.

  14. #14
    McX
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    check with Paul to be sure, but i think i heard him mention an out of state permit will meet the requirement too, maybe get the Penn. Non-Res. if it does, and they are still handing them out. Like $25 bucks i think i paid. figured i'd toss a copy of that in with the Utah class paperwork to cinch my permit.

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    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmwguy11 View Post
    You would be correct in your guess.
    At this point it sounds like I have 2 options, since they aren't even offering updated certificates or the signed statements, etc, yet because of "waiting for DOJ rules/finalization" (?). Me and my wife can try to find a cheap 4 hour course elsewhere, or we can sit and wait for probably 2 months til we get our Utah permits. I would rather not wait for the latter. :/
    Try here....

    http://www.armedcitizentraining.us/

    They meet both your requierments....

    Edited to add: Unless the Yellow Cat (Jim) plans on being in WI anytime soon..?????

    Outdoorsman1
    Last edited by Outdoorsman1; 10-18-2011 at 02:27 PM.
    "On the Plains of Hesitation bleach the bones of countless millions who, at the Dawn of Victory, sat down to wait - and waiting, died."

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  16. #16
    Regular Member RR_Broccoli's Avatar
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    What's the point in being pissed and a rant if you won't say who it is? I am sure I am not the only one that is signed up for a course soon, or who is going to be, that would appreciate the information. You are pissed about it, but are helping this person or business continue to reap rewards for both taking advantage of the training requirement and providing poor customer service.

    I am seriously confused by the lack of this information.
    "I can only be held responsible for my own stupidity." - Captain Nemo

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RR_Broccoli View Post
    What's the point in being pissed and a rant if you won't say who it is? I am sure I am not the only one that is signed up for a course soon, or who is going to be, that would appreciate the information. You are pissed about it, but are helping this person or business continue to reap rewards for both taking advantage of the training requirement and providing poor customer service.

    I am seriously confused by the lack of this information.
    Did you read the thread? Post #6.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Quote Originally Posted by RR_Broccoli View Post
    What's the point in being pissed and a rant if you won't say who it is? I am sure I am not the only one that is signed up for a course soon, or who is going to be, that would appreciate the information. You are pissed about it, but are helping this person or business continue to reap rewards for both taking advantage of the training requirement and providing poor customer service.

    I am seriously confused by the lack of this information.
    Yea it's Personal Protection Academy, (Mr. Bender) as protias guessed and I affirmed in a previous post.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    Actually... Asked in post # 6 and answered in post # 8...

    Outdoorsman1
    "On the Plains of Hesitation bleach the bones of countless millions who, at the Dawn of Victory, sat down to wait - and waiting, died."

    George Cecil (18911970) American advertising copywriter

    Outdoorsman1
    Member: Wisconsin Carry Inc.
    Member: Silver Lake Sportsmans Club
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  20. #20
    Regular Member RR_Broccoli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmwguy11 View Post
    Yea it's Personal Protection Academy, (Mr. Bender) as protias guessed and I affirmed in a previous post.
    Ah, thanks for the info. (Not who my class is with.) I don't follow the forum who's who closely so didn't make the connection.
    "I can only be held responsible for my own stupidity." - Captain Nemo

  21. #21
    Regular Member wild boar's Avatar
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    have been gone, what about the DD-214, Is that anygood?

  22. #22
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wild boar View Post
    have been gone, what about the DD-214, Is that anygood?
    Yes sir.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  23. #23
    Regular Member wild boar's Avatar
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    Thanks P, see ya friday? I'll be there. boar out.

  24. #24
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wild boar View Post
    Thanks P, see ya friday? I'll be there. boar out.
    Not this week my friend. My church has their fish fry 3rd Friday of the month and my pastor is continuing tradition to have a questions and answers type of thing during the fall, winter, and spring. I will be there Nov 4, vehicle carrying and all.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

  25. #25
    Regular Member wild boar's Avatar
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    What The Hell!

    I hope this makes sense to those we helped put in office. It seems clear to me that they expect to be one term servants. U.S. senator Johnson will not respond to any of my Emails, Gov Walker stabbed us in the back,it just doesn't make any sense. Did Walker say anything at all to support what J.B. did with authority SB 93 didn't give him. Just... WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON? boar out.

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