not happy with our CCW class...

UPDATE: We received our updated certificates without any extra fee or charge, and in time for applying NOV 1st.

My wife and I less than a month ago took a CCW course that was 6 hours long, and was listed as usable for the WI permit, and also was for the Utah permit. However the problem we are running into is that if Utah doesn't process our applications until after November 1st, they will not give us a permit due to the change to Utah's CCW laws. (this is what I was told when I called the Utah Bureau)

So I reached out to our instructor about getting an updated certificate, and they basically sent out a mass email that first says the rules for what is needed is not yet finalized. (yes, it is) It goes on to say that if we do not have our Utah permit and we need an updated affidavit/certificate/whatever, we'll need to pay a fee to get this information, though they can't give us a cost yet because they need to "wait for the DOJ requirements". They also give another option of taking the same class (again) at a reduced rate in which they would provide new certificates that have the correct info.


So yea... I'm pissed. We spent over $200 for my wife and I to take this course assuming we would get everything we needed to apply for WI. And in fact, we did get training that meets all of the requirements. But it's the certificate and info needed on it that is coming up short, and now we're basically being told we have to pay more money to get an updated certificate (if it was $10 fine, but they are saying it'll be 3 times that at least), but even then they aren't even offering that yet because they are "waiting for information on DOJ rules and finalization"?



BLAH /rant

If you are comfortable with sharing their name, it might prevent others from having to go through this... Or if they are going to modify future permits, at least anyone who has already taken the class and is not aware of the "additional" fee's, will have a "heads up"...

Just Sayin

Outdoorsman1

bmwguy11 said:

My wife and I less than a month ago took a CCW course that was 6 hours long, and was listed as usable for the WI permit, and also was for the Utah permit. However the problem we are running into is that if Utah doesn't process our applications until after November 1st, they will not give us a permit due to the change to Utah's CCW laws. (this is what I was told when I called the Utah Bureau)

So I reached out to our instructor about getting an updated certificate, and they basically sent out a mass email that first says the rules for what is needed is not yet finalized. (yes, it is) It goes on to say that if we do not have our Utah permit and we need an updated affidavit/certificate/whatever, we'll need to pay a fee to get this information, though they can't give us a cost yet because they need to "wait for the DOJ requirements". They also give another option of taking the same class (again) at a reduced rate in which they would provide new certificates that have the correct info.


So yea... I'm pissed. We spent over $200 for my wife and I to take this course assuming we would get everything we needed to apply for WI. And in fact, we did get training that meets all of the requirements. But it's the certificate and info needed on it that is coming up short, and now we're basically being told we have to pay more money to get an updated certificate (if it was $10 fine, but they are saying it'll be 3 times that at least), but even then they aren't even offering that yet because they are "waiting for information on DOJ rules and finalization"?



BLAH /rant

Click to expand...

Shoulda held out for the WisconsinCarry FREE class; butt sees clearly (hindsight is 20/20). Shuffle on over here, and grab the free class when it comes to town.

I am thinking any free classes from WCI will be a ways out in the future as they are still in negotiations with the DOJ to be able to "certify" instructors as well as looking for volunteers

Also, I checked with those that give the classes that I spoke highly of (a couple of months ago) and was told that they are already on top of the issue by sending everyone who took there class an e-mail (should go out tomorrow) with a confirmation letter that should meet the DOJ rule. I was told that the person will have to write in the city they took the class in on the certificate and that was abouit it....

I asked my original questins as to which classes the OP was refering to partly for reasons given and out of curiosity of it happened to be the organization I spoke highly of. Based on the original costs mentioned in the OP I was pretty sure it was not the same organization but just wanted to 100% sure...

Outdoorsman1

bmwguy11 said:

My wife and I less than a month ago took a CCW course that was 6 hours long, and was listed as usable for the WI permit, and also was for the Utah permit. However the problem we are running into is that if Utah doesn't process our applications until after November 1st, they will not give us a permit due to the change to Utah's CCW laws. (this is what I was told when I called the Utah Bureau)

Click to expand...

According to our instructor, who is participating member here, you just need to get your Utah application IN before Nov. 1, not processed.


And your CC instructors are total, unabashed whores who should be publicly outed. However there is nothing in the "emergency rules" that stipulate who puts the updated info on the certs. Do it yourself. Just don't use crayon or something obvious.

bmwguy11 said:

My wife and I less than a month ago took a CCW course that was 6 hours long, and was listed as usable for the WI permit, and also was for the Utah permit. However the problem we are running into is that if Utah doesn't process our applications until after November 1st, they will not give us a permit due to the change to Utah's CCW laws. (this is what I was told when I called the Utah Bureau)

So I reached out to our instructor about getting an updated certificate, and they basically sent out a mass email that first says the rules for what is needed is not yet finalized. (yes, it is) It goes on to say that if we do not have our Utah permit and we need an updated affidavit/certificate/whatever, we'll need to pay a fee to get this information, though they can't give us a cost yet because they need to "wait for the DOJ requirements". They also give another option of taking the same class (again) at a reduced rate in which they would provide new certificates that have the correct info.


So yea... I'm pissed. We spent over $200 for my wife and I to take this course assuming we would get everything we needed to apply for WI. And in fact, we did get training that meets all of the requirements. But it's the certificate and info needed on it that is coming up short, and now we're basically being told we have to pay more money to get an updated certificate (if it was $10 fine, but they are saying it'll be 3 times that at least), but even then they aren't even offering that yet because they are "waiting for information on DOJ rules and finalization"?



BLAH /rant

Click to expand...

Let me guess, Bender? There are some words I'd like describe him, but those words would get me banned.

HandyHamlet said:

According to our instructor, who is participating member here, you just need to get your Utah application IN before Nov. 1, not processed.

Click to expand...

When I called the Utah number on the bottom of my Utah application, they said that if it is not processed by November 1st when WI ccw permit law goes into effect, it will not be processed until I receive a WI permit. Even so, I wanted to apply for permits right away, not wait the 60 days or whatever it is for Utah to get us our permits.

And your CC instructors are total, unabashed whores who should be publicly outed. However there is nothing in the "emergency rules" that stipulate who puts the updated info on the certs. Do it yourself. Just don't use crayon or something obvious.

Click to expand...

I thought of putting that in myself, except there is one problem. This is needed from my instructor:

*A signed statement by the instructor who taught the firearms safety or
training course to the applicant affirming that the course satisfied
the definition of a firearms safety or training course in s. Jus
17.03(8) and that the applicant successfully completed the course.

protias said:

Let me guess, Bender? There are some words I'd like describe him, but those words would get me banned.

Click to expand...

You would be correct in your guess.


At this point it sounds like I have 2 options, since they aren't even offering updated certificates or the signed statements, etc, yet because of "waiting for DOJ rules/finalization" (?). Me and my wife can try to find a cheap 4 hour course elsewhere, or we can sit and wait for probably 2 months til we get our Utah permits. I would rather not wait for the latter. :/

You may want to check with the yellow cat, i think JPM said, even if we dont get the Utah permit, but took the class, the paper from his class, with his certification is good enough to meet the training requirement(s).

bmwguy11 said:

When I called the Utah number on the bottom of my Utah application...

Click to expand...

I don't think the Utah law goes into effect till then (November as well). So if you get it in before the Utah law goes into effect you are golden.

I thought of putting that in myself, except there is one problem. This is needed from my instructor:

*A signed statement by the instructor who taught the firearms safety or
training course to the applicant affirming that the course satisfied
the definition of a firearms safety or training course in s. Jus
17.03(8) and that the applicant successfully completed the course.

Click to expand...

I believe the "signed statement" is the actual certification document.


Your instructor is a liar.

HandyHamlet said:

I don't think the Utah law goes into effect till then (November as well). So if you get it in before the Utah law goes into effect you are golden.



I believe the "signed statement" is the actual certification document.


Your instructor is a liar.

Click to expand...

Oh I see what you mean. So it doesn't need the actual verbiage stating "affirming that the course satisfied
the definition of a firearms safety or training course in s. Jus
17.03(8)"?

My certificate says "PPA awards this training certificate to (my name here) for successful completion of comprehensive carry training" and it has the instructors signature and date. So I just need to fill in the other stuff like 6 hour course, in brookfield, wi, etc?

bmwguy11 said:

So I just need to fill in the other stuff like 6 hour course, in brookfield, wi, etc?

Click to expand...

I'm in a similar situation..have a cert without the newly required info...and I don't know about anybody else but I surely am not going to hand write in additional information and expect it to be accepted...

+1000

HandyHamlet said:

According to our instructor, who is participating member here, you just need to get your Utah application IN before Nov. 1, not processed.


And your CC instructors are total, unabashed whores who should be publicly outed. However there is nothing in the "emergency rules" that stipulate who puts the updated info on the certs. Do it yourself. Just don't use crayon or something obvious.

Click to expand...

Yes, let all know who they are. I took the Utah Class with Yellow Cat and mailed my application on Sept 07, 2011 and as long as the application is in the system prior to 01 Nov 2011 it is good to go.

check with Paul to be sure, but i think i heard him mention an out of state permit will meet the requirement too, maybe get the Penn. Non-Res. if it does, and they are still handing them out. Like $25 bucks i think i paid. figured i'd toss a copy of that in with the Utah class paperwork to cinch my permit.

bmwguy11 said:

You would be correct in your guess.
At this point it sounds like I have 2 options, since they aren't even offering updated certificates or the signed statements, etc, yet because of "waiting for DOJ rules/finalization" (?). Me and my wife can try to find a cheap 4 hour course elsewhere, or we can sit and wait for probably 2 months til we get our Utah permits. I would rather not wait for the latter. :/

Click to expand...

Try here....

http://www.armedcitizentraining.us/

They meet both your requierments....

Edited to add: Unless the Yellow Cat (Jim) plans on being in WI anytime soon..?????

Outdoorsman1

What's the point in being pissed and a rant if you won't say who it is? I am sure I am not the only one that is signed up for a course soon, or who is going to be, that would appreciate the information. You are pissed about it, but are helping this person or business continue to reap rewards for both taking advantage of the training requirement and providing poor customer service.

I am seriously confused by the lack of this information.

RR_Broccoli said:

What's the point in being pissed and a rant if you won't say who it is? I am sure I am not the only one that is signed up for a course soon, or who is going to be, that would appreciate the information. You are pissed about it, but are helping this person or business continue to reap rewards for both taking advantage of the training requirement and providing poor customer service.

I am seriously confused by the lack of this information.

Click to expand...

Did you read the thread? Post #6.

RR_Broccoli said:

What's the point in being pissed and a rant if you won't say who it is? I am sure I am not the only one that is signed up for a course soon, or who is going to be, that would appreciate the information. You are pissed about it, but are helping this person or business continue to reap rewards for both taking advantage of the training requirement and providing poor customer service.

I am seriously confused by the lack of this information.

Click to expand...

Yea it's Personal Protection Academy, (Mr. Bender) as protias guessed and I affirmed in a previous post.

Actually... Asked in post # 6 and answered in post # 8...

Outdoorsman1

bmwguy11 said:

Yea it's Personal Protection Academy, (Mr. Bender) as protias guessed and I affirmed in a previous post.

Click to expand...

Ah, thanks for the info. :dude: (Not who my class is with.) I don't follow the forum who's who closely so didn't make the connection.