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Roanoke City Circuit Court extralegal demands for CHP

Tosta Dojen

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2008
Messages
183
Location
Roanoke, Virginia, USA
I'll let my missive do the talking on this one. The law establishing a $50 maximum fee for a CHP application has been in effect since 1997. I wonder how many thousands of dollars in ill-gotten fees the court has collected over how many years? I guess we're about to find out.



Ms. Hamilton:

On Friday, October 14, I went to your office to renew my Virginia Concealed Handgun Permit. I was surprised to learn that you are charging $52 for a CHP application, as this exceeds the maximum amount that can be charged by law. A clerk named Connie explained that your office charges an additional $2 fee for copies of documents that are sent to the Roanoke Police Academy. The website for your office gives substantially the same explanation. Because I was unwilling to pay this additional fee, my application was not accepted.

Virginia Code §18.2-308(K) clearly states that "[t]he total amount assessed for processing an application for a permit shall not exceed $50." Furthermore, the fee is itemized, with $10 allocated to the Clerk of the Court "for the processing of an application or issuing of a permit, including his costs associated with the consultation with law-enforcement agencies." (Emphasis supplied.)

By charging an additional fee over and above the statutory maximum, you are in direct violation of state law. Moreover, because you are already receiving funds for the fee's stated purpose, the fee is completely unwarranted.

I insist that you immediately bring the fee charged to CHP applicants into compliance with state law. I will be returning to your office on Monday, October 24 to resubmit my renewal application. I expect that when I do so I will not be illegally overcharged. I would also like to be advised of how you will be refunding applicants who have been illegally overcharged in the past.
 
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jmelvin

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
2,195
Location
Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
Wow the Roanoke area just looks more and more hostile to peaceable people nearly every week! Please follow up with what happens. The next action will be getting the county to refund the money they've no doubt taken illegally over the years.
 

ProShooter

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
4,663
Location
www.ProactiveShooters.com, Richmond, Va., , USA
Oh I'm going to love to see how this turns out!

Go get 'em!


As an aside, I just had a guy come up to me at the Richmond gun show and explain that Westmoreland County took his photo for a CHP, and then he showed me the laminated permit with photo. I hate when these clerks can't follow the law.
 
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thebigsd

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
3,535
Location
Quarryville, PA
Great catch!! Very interested to see what explanation they come up with. If they stick with their story, how far are you willing to take it?
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
I believe that User (Dan Hawes) has recommended in situations like this to take two completed copies AND a witness with you to the clerks office. Have your witness video w/audio the entire procedure, making sure that the witness has seen/read the application so that their testimony will be valid on this point.

Demand that the $50.00 and application be accepted - camera rolling.

Whether accepted or rejected by the clerk, you have a video/audio record for use in follow-up action.
 

scouser

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2011
Messages
1,341
Location
804, VA
Leaving aside the debate as to whether the fingerprinting requirement is ethical in those jurisdictions where it exists, if Henrico County can process an application INCLUDING fingerprinting for that $50 fee, how can Roanoke even come close to justifying charging more for performing the same process?
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
I believe that User (Dan Hawes) has recommended in situations like this to take two completed copies AND a witness with you to the clerks office. Have your witness video w/audio the entire procedure, making sure that the witness has seen/read the application so that their testimony will be valid on this point.

Demand that the $50.00 and application be accepted - camera rolling.

Whether accepted or rejected by the clerk, you have a video/audio record for use in follow-up action.

The problem is getting the camera to the Clerks Office, Grape.
Generally you have to get through the metal detectors to go there. I have an idea I want to try out tomorrow. If it works, it'll work statewide.
 

Mike

Site Co-Founder
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
8,706
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
Please get this info to VCDL

Also, were you required to be photograghed? Roanoke was doing this for a while as a condition of fingerpritning or somthing - it;s not allowed, we need people to refuse and be denied their so they have standing to appeal the denial and get this nonesense stopped.
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
Can a citizen go to a local magistrate and swear out a warrant for the Clerk of the Court for this plainly documented violation of the law?

TFred

Probably not TFred.
This is one of those laws that I keep harping about with no teeth.
Unless you could show malfeasance, I can't think of how it could be a criminal violation so a Magistrate wouldn't have any legal footing for a warrant.

But since this is an Administrative violation, there may be another way to enforce this. I'll know more later this morning.

I'm going to sneak around the woods in the rain for a few hours, then I'll make a few calls.
 

Sesrun

Regular Member
Joined
May 4, 2011
Messages
84
Location
Roanoke, VA
Also, were you required to be photograghed? Roanoke was doing this for a while as a condition of fingerpritning or somthing - it;s not allowed, we need people to refuse and be denied their so they have standing to appeal the denial and get this nonesense stopped.

When I put the spreadsheet together back in August I specifically called Roanoke City Clerk's Office to find out if they require a photograph and I was told it is required. This is also required by Botetourt County (who I also specifically called). Neither locality has the photograph requirement in their ordinance regarding concealed carry. We really need to get these changed since they are obviously addded requirements from what state law says is required.
 
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peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
[h=2]Please get this info to VCDL[/h]
Also, were you required to be photograghed? Roanoke was doing this for a while as a condition of fingerpritning or somthing - it;s not allowed, we need people to refuse and be denied their so they have standing to appeal the denial and get this nonesense stopped.

VCDL is aware of it Mike. If I'm not mistaken, you are a board member and so is Grapeshot.
I know Grapeshot will bring it to the attention of the full board as he always does, and I would not expect anything less from you.
 
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Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
When I put the spreadsheet together back in August I specifically called Roanoke City Clerk's Office to find out if they require a photograph and I was told it is required. This is also required by Botetourt County (who I also specifically called). Neither locality has the photograph requirement in their ordinance regarding concealed carry. We really need to get these changed since they are obviously addded requirements from what state law says is required.

Can you make that spread sheet available to me? It would be a big help.
 

Blk97F150

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
1,179
Location
Virginia
Can you make that spread sheet available to me? It would be a big help.

Grape, there is a link to it in the first post on the 'Ordinance thread' HERE

When the Google spreadsheet link opens, in the top left corner click FILE, DOWNLOAD AS, EXCEL.... and it will save a copy to your computer. :cool:
 

Sesrun

Regular Member
Joined
May 4, 2011
Messages
84
Location
Roanoke, VA
Grape, there is a link to it in the first post on the 'Ordinance thread' HERE

When the Google spreadsheet link opens, in the top left corner click FILE, DOWNLOAD AS, EXCEL.... and it will save a copy to your computer. :cool:

The spreadsheet can also be edited live through the original link posted in the thread above by anyone so that as many people as possible can contribute. Because of that I also try to back it up regularly on my computer just in case malicious or accidental damage ever occurs to it.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
The spreadsheet can also be edited live through the original link posted in the thread above by anyone so that as many people as possible can contribute. Because of that I also try to back it up regularly on my computer just in case malicious or accidental damage ever occurs to it.

Got it - appreciate the feedback!
 

ProShooter

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
4,663
Location
www.ProactiveShooters.com, Richmond, Va., , USA
The problem is getting the camera to the Clerks Office, Grape.
Generally you have to get through the metal detectors to go there. I have an idea I want to try out tomorrow. If it works, it'll work statewide.

Most chief judges issue some kind of court order barring video cameras, et al. If someone was video taping in the courthouse, they'd probably be charged with Contempt.
 
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