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Roanoke City Circuit Court extralegal demands for CHP

peter nap

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Doesn't this once again raise the point of what is the court and what is everything else?

TFred

Well...yes it does TFred but finding out can get pricey. I had to pay a fine for contempt once for one of my little excursions, and can think of better ways to spend my money.:(
 

Grapeshot

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Well...yes it does TFred but finding out can get pricey. I had to pay a fine for contempt once for one of my little excursions, and can think of better ways to spend my money.:(

You take your chances, and sometimes pays your money........one way or the other :uhoh:

Research and calculate.
 

CPerdue

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update?

Update please?

FWIW, I just went into the Salem Clerk of Court's office today for a renewal...wasn't allowed to bring in, "any electronic device," on, "Judge's orders." I asked the guard about his watch...he wasn't amused. Maybe a super-8 film camera?

Obviously they don't want the courtroom becoming a media circus, but where are the limits on this kind of B.S.?

C.
 

IanB

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Northern VA
VCDL is aware of it Mike. If I'm not mistaken, you are a board member and so is Grapeshot.
I know Grapeshot will bring it to the attention of the full board as he always does, and I would not expect anything less from you.

I may suggest you review the VCDL website, specifically the page that lists the organization's officers and board members. http://www.vcdl.org/static/officers.html
 

Tosta Dojen

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Roanoke, Virginia, USA
Update:

On Friday, 21 October, I got a voice message from Clerk Hamilton, advising that she had reviewed the relevant code, and that her office would no longer be charging an additional $2 fee. No mention was made of any plans for refunding applicants who have already been overcharged. I imagine that she'd prefer that particular problem just go away -- correcting it would come out of her budget, I'm sure.

On Monday, 24 October, I submitted my application, along with a $50 fee. I also picked up a packet of information intended for CHP applicants, which reveals a host of other potential issues. I'll be following up on those when I have a chance.

On a side note, the courthouse prohibits all electronic recording devices. I don't know what authority is behind that prohibition.
 

Marco

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Greene County
she had reviewed the relevant code, and that her office would no longer be charging an additional $2 fee. No mention was made of any plans for refunding applicants who have already been overcharged. I imagine that she'd prefer that particular problem just go away -- correcting it would come out of her budget, I'm sure.

Maybe you could get the local paper to run a short story telling folks about this elected officals oversight, it is an election yr.
 

Neplusultra

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Christiansburg, Virginia, USA
Sounds like you should of mentioned a class action lawsuit..... Two dollars back to a few thousand people and $50,000 to some lawyer :^).

That, would get their attention. And IMO you ought to do it just to make them remember it.
 

Badger Johnson

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Just to remind, I was told by the Spotsy clerk you had to photocopy your Va Dr's Licence and include it or no permit. That's not 'legal' by State law either. Nor can they insist on your SS# (but it's on the form. We were told by our trainer to put 'if any, not disclosed' or something like that.
 
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TFred

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I would like to know about the recording ban. After all officials performing their duties don't have the same right to privacy as citizens. Isn't that what has been repeatedly found when it involves police?
In a nutshell: When it comes to what goes on inside a courtroom, Judges are probably the closest thing we have in this country to monarchy. They can do pretty much whatever they want, including the ban of all electronic devices such as voice recorders.

Couple that with the ever-powerful need to save money at every opportunity, and what you get is an entire courthouse with one outer security perimeter. One staffed check-point for all public access, which yields one set of rules for the entire space, even though the legal justification and authority for those rules may not extend to the non-courtROOM parts of the courtHOUSE.

I have posted my opinion on this before: Given the current case law (it's been mentioned here a number of times) I suspect if we pushed real hard, and spent a lot of money, we MIGHT win the legal battle to permit recorders and even legal carry in the non courtROOM areas, but given the stark realities of dwindling budgets in every jurisdiction across the state, the General Assembly would very quickly act to take away that win with new rules that specifically define the court to be wherever they decide to put the security perimeter. The local courts would cry fast and loud that they simply don't have money to pay for multiple security zones within one building, and the GA would quickly comply.

JMHO, but it's reasonable.

TFred
 

Glockster

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This probably isn't the best place to pose this question, but it seems to be not that far astray. What about a "simple" situation where you are summoned for jury duty and as a condition to entry to the court house you are required to secure your weapon. You have a constitutional right to carry, but a legal obligation to appear before the court for jury duty. Can you be legally compelled to forgo your constitutional right in a situation such as this? It's not like other instances of going to court (at least not some) you have no say in the matter. Could you be held in contempt of court for refusing to appear for jury duty? I wonder if this bridge has been crossed before.
 

Tosta Dojen

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Jul 23, 2008
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Location
Roanoke, Virginia, USA
Sweet Victory,
Well Done!

It's premature to declare victory. I recently had to send this:



Ms. Hamilton:

On Monday, October 24, I submitted a renewal application for a Virginia Concealed Handgun Permit, along with the appropriate $50 fee. Today I called your office to inquire about the status of my application. A clerk named Jessica explained that your office requires applicants to personally submit a copy of the application to the Roanoke Police Academy, and that because I have not done so, my application has not been processed. This is unacceptable.

Virginia Code §18.2-308(D) places the responsibility of consulting with law enforcement for a criminal history records check on the court, not the applicant. Furthermore, that subsection also states that "[a]n application is deemed complete when all information required to be furnished by the applicant is delivered to and received by the clerk of court before or concomitant with the conduct of a state or national criminal history records check." By implementing a requirement not authorized by the Code of Virginia, and failing to process otherwise completed applications, you are once again in violation of state law.

Because my application has not been approved or denied within 45 days of its submission, you must now certify on the application that the 45-day period has expired, and within the next five business days, send me a copy of the certified application via mail or e-mail to serve as a de facto permit.

I ask that you notify me when the certified application has been sent. If the certified application is not sent at the time required by law, I will pursue appropriate legal remedies.
 

Grapeshot

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It's premature to declare victory. I recently had to send this:



Ms. Hamilton:

On Monday, October 24, I submitted a renewal application for a Virginia Concealed Handgun Permit, along with the appropriate $50 fee. Today I called your office to inquire about the status of my application. A clerk named Jessica explained that your office requires applicants to personally submit a copy of the application to the Roanoke Police Academy, and that because I have not done so, my application has not been processed. This is unacceptable.

Virginia Code §18.2-308(D) places the responsibility of consulting with law enforcement for a criminal history records check on the court, not the applicant. Furthermore, that subsection also states that "[a]n application is deemed complete when all information required to be furnished by the applicant is delivered to and received by the clerk of court before or concomitant with the conduct of a state or national criminal history records check." By implementing a requirement not authorized by the Code of Virginia, and failing to process otherwise completed applications, you are once again in violation of state law.

Because my application has not been approved or denied within 45 days of its submission, you must now certify on the application that the 45-day period has expired, and within the next five business days, send me a copy of the certified application via mail or e-mail to serve as a de facto permit.

I ask that you notify me when the certified application has been sent. If the certified application is not sent at the time required by law, I will pursue appropriate legal remedies.

The clerk must either issue the permit or if not, give the formal reason(s) in writing as to why it was denied - there are a limited number of legal reasons. The only other option is to issue a temporary permit as you point out.

Would suggest that you go to the clerk's office on the 46th day with a second party and a video cam. If still denied what is due to you, then you have the option of an ore tenus hearing or reporting the matter to the clerk of the Va. Sup. Court. The last option of filing suit for specific performance should not be necessary.

Hang tight and follow through, you have them swinging in the breeze.
 

CPerdue

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New thread?

This probably isn't the best place to pose this question, but it seems to be not that far astray. What about a "simple" situation where you are summoned for jury duty and as a condition to entry to the court house you are required to secure your weapon. You have a constitutional right to carry, but a legal obligation to appear before the court for jury duty. Can you be legally compelled to forgo your constitutional right in a situation such as this? It's not like other instances of going to court (at least not some) you have no say in the matter. Could you be held in contempt of court for refusing to appear for jury duty? I wonder if this bridge has been crossed before.

That is an interesting question - please start a thread for it and post a link.
 

Grapeshot

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This probably isn't the best place to pose this question, but it seems to be not that far astray. What about a "simple" situation where you are summoned for jury duty and as a condition to entry to the court house you are required to secure your weapon. You have a constitutional right to carry, but a legal obligation to appear before the court for jury duty. Can you be legally compelled to forgo your constitutional right in a situation such as this? It's not like other instances of going to court (at least not some) you have no say in the matter. Could you be held in contempt of court for refusing to appear for jury duty? I wonder if this bridge has been crossed before.

This is very much OT for this thread.
Guns are not allowed in courthouses in Virginia.
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-283.1

There have been several threads on this issue.
 
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